Roughly speaking, the origin of the zombie is closely related to the sugar plantations. Large swaths of the population of Haiti were enslaved. The zombie reflects their existential dread of continuing to be enslaved after death.

As Christopher Hitchens was fond of saying, "At least you can die and leave North Korea."

Quote from: jhkim on April 27, 2023, 06:13:28 PM
Fheredin described zombie-making witch doctors as "domestic terrorists" - which I think means they are the equivalent of fringe criminals (like abusive cults and predatory preachers) rather than the religious practice of normal people.

Unless they are like the cultists in Nigeria, some of whom have considerable political clout. They'd make great adversaries in a CoC campaign, though.

I remember hearing a rumor that families would hire bokors to zombify family members they felt deserved it.

Quote from: jhkim on April 27, 2023, 06:13:28 PM

Quote from: Wtrmute on April 27, 2023, 04:23:07 PM

Quote from: Fheredin on April 26, 2023, 08:25:42 AM
I have done mission work in Haiti, which has Voodoo as its national religion. As such, I do know a thing or two about Voodoo zombies.

Tht is actually very interesting (and terrifying), thanks. I was under the impression that Voudoun zombies weren't actually dead, but just hypnotized by the witch doctor and forced to do their bidding. It definitely is quite different from the rest of the zombie origins, though, in spite of having originated them.

Here in Brazil our Voudoun-equivalent, Candomblé or Macumba, is generally more oriented to white magic (at the worst they promise to "bring your loved one to you in three days"), but some "mesa preta" or "quimbanda" practitioners still can be found if one goes looking for them. They'll generally just cast death curses on people, though, and generally not muck around with pharmacopoeia like you describe in Haiti...

My understanding is that normal practice of Haitian voodoo is also oriented to white magic. Fheredin described zombie-making witch doctors as "domestic terrorists" - which I think means they are the equivalent of fringe criminals (like abusive cults and predatory preachers) rather than the religious practice of normal people. Wtrmute, correct me if I'm misreading you here.

I read two books by Haitian voodoo practitioners as preparation for a larp that I designed set in 1920s Haiti. They didn't say anything about zombies, but they had a lot about charms and calling in loa. Maybe they weren't accurately representing what most Haitians believe, but they seemed on the level.

The Serpent and the Rainbow is a pretty good book for Haitian zombies historically and sociologically, the film isn't.

Quote from: Rhymer88 on April 28, 2023, 06:51:58 AM

Quote from: jhkim on April 27, 2023, 06:13:28 PM
Fheredin described zombie-making witch doctors as "domestic terrorists" - which I think means they are the equivalent of fringe criminals (like abusive cults and predatory preachers) rather than the religious practice of normal people.

Unless they are like the cultists in Nigeria, some of whom have considerable political clout. They'd make great adversaries in a CoC campaign, though.

Agreed that there are places and times when domestic terrorists have mainstream clout. The KKK had considerable clout in late 19th/early 20th century US. The Lord's Resistance Army currently has clout in Uganda and the DRC.

I don't think bokor in Haiti are like any of these in real life, though.

Quote from: jhkim on April 27, 2023, 06:13:28 PM
My understanding is that normal practice of Haitian voodoo is also oriented to white magic. Fheredin described zombie-making witch doctors as "domestic terrorists" - which I think means they are the equivalent of fringe criminals (like abusive cults and predatory preachers) rather than the religious practice of normal people. Wtrmute, correct me if I'm misreading you here.

I read two books by Haitian voodoo practitioners as preparation for a larp that I designed set in 1920s Haiti. They didn't say anything about zombies, but they had a lot about charms and calling in loa. Maybe they weren't accurately representing what most Haitians believe, but they seemed on the level.

Oh, I agree, I didn't mean to imply that it was otherwise; only that the black magic practitioners in one seem to be much more, for lack of a better word, hard core than the others. The worst I've heard about practitioners of Quimbanda, black Candomblé or black Santería is abduction of corpses in cemeteries, and there is reason to doubt even those reports; the worst I can give you a high probability of being extant these days only rises to the level of animal cruelty or stealing Catholic Blessed Hosts.

The common, White variety of Candomblé and Umbanda deals with the same kind of spirit summoning for consultation, spirit healing and exorcism, and some love charms and sympathies (although I would hesitate to call these last ones white magic, seeing as they are trying to subvert the victim's free will); in any case the same thing your sources report for White Voudoun.

Quote from: Wtrmute on April 28, 2023, 06:24:51 PM

Quote from: jhkim on April 27, 2023, 06:13:28 PM
My understanding is that normal practice of Haitian voodoo is also oriented to white magic. Fheredin described zombie-making witch doctors as "domestic terrorists" - which I think means they are the equivalent of fringe criminals (like abusive cults and predatory preachers) rather than the religious practice of normal people. Wtrmute, correct me if I'm misreading you here.

I read two books by Haitian voodoo practitioners as preparation for a larp that I designed set in 1920s Haiti. They didn't say anything about zombies, but they had a lot about charms and calling in loa. Maybe they weren't accurately representing what most Haitians believe, but they seemed on the level.

Oh, I agree, I didn't mean to imply that it was otherwise; only that the black magic practitioners in one seem to be much more, for lack of a better word, hard core than the others. The worst I've heard about practitioners of Quimbanda, black Candomblé or black Santería is abduction of corpses in cemeteries, and there is reason to doubt even those reports; the worst I can give you a high probability of being extant these days only rises to the level of animal cruelty or stealing Catholic Blessed Hosts.

The common, White variety of Candomblé and Umbanda deals with the same kind of spirit summoning for consultation, spirit healing and exorcism, and some love charms and sympathies (although I would hesitate to call these last ones white magic, seeing as they are trying to subvert the victim's free will); in any case the same thing your sources report for White Voudoun.

Cool, glad we agree.

I'd highly recommend GURPS Voodoo as an RPG adaptation, by the way. It's not a generic sourcebook like some GURPS books, but rather a unique setting by CJ Carella. It's a great modern urban fantasy setting that uses a lot of all the white magic as the basis.

Relating a bit to the thread title - I do find it a little annoying that when some people hear "Voodoo" they only think of horror movie zombies or maybe voodoo dolls. There's a lot more interesting material that comes from actual practice.