Hard to say which one I think is worst, because I tend to stop reading and playing as soon as they pass a certain threshold of disinterest for me. Since I really like TFT and GURPS and few games even try to do the things that I like about them, that has me not playing most other games.

Also it's clearly a matter of preference and type rather than quality per se. Even when I mention how white box D&D seemed cryptic and incomplete, fans reply that they like that as a feature because then the referee gets to make up everything. So, seems unanswerable.

As someone who played a lot of D&D, I'd have to agree with that sentiment.  The system needs a lot of hand waving or just houserules for ME to not complain about it.

I call BS. The basic structure of D+D is excellent, and kicks the shit out of most later roleplaying games, just considering the structures of the rules. Classes, levels, resource management (mostly HP and spells) are great core elements for a game; it scales well across power levels; and, most importantly, the 'meat' of the game - monsters, spells, items, dungeons - is outstanding and always has been. People who turn their noses up at D+D because they don't like to-hit tables or whatever are totally full of shit.

Quote from: Larsdangly;962916I call BS. The basic structure of D+D is excellent, and kicks the shit out of most later roleplaying games, just considering the structures of the rules. Classes, levels, resource management (mostly HP and spells) are great core elements for a game; it scales well across power levels; and, most importantly, the 'meat' of the game - monsters, spells, items, dungeons - is outstanding and always has been.

It's very representative of a specific style of game, which everyone tries to shoehorn into settings that just won't work for it, like Eberron, Dark Sun.

Quote from: Larsdangly;962916People who turn their noses up at D+D because they don't like to-hit tables or whatever are totally full of shit.

Uh hunh.  You've never paid attention to the edition wars?  That are STILL raging to this day, under the new banner of OSR vs. New School?  There are issues, issues that no one agrees on.  So I'm calling bullshit on you're wanna be 'You're Doing It Wrong.'  Gronan is much better at it.

I thought I'd be all original and say Shadowrun, but apparently I'm not as alone as I thought!

I'm playing in a Shadowrun 5e game that's starting this week. In my opinion the tone of the setting and the fact that the tech just isn't impressive anymore mean that I doubt I'll enjoy the game very much (alongside Catalyst being involved with it). In my case at least it feels like the game is just too close to reality setting-wise (obviously barring the weaboo katana orks and techie dwarves) and the writers are actively trying to point out how hip and relevant they are by throwing in sidebars about every possible -phobia and -ism they can muster. It's like the book is complaining to me about its own setting, and that seems to me to be about the worst thing a writer can do.

Take Godbound for example. It's a different genre obviously, but both games have a default setting that I'm not wild about. The difference is that Godbound's setting is presented with tact, a level head, and without judgment. Well, that and the writer admits upfront that you can just use whatever setting you want.

I could never get into Shadowrun because my first Cyberpunk experience was William Gibson unless you count Blade Runner, and my ADD did not like the idea of mixing D&D into it.

Quote from: kobayashi;962866World of Darkness and its goddamn awful fiction and patronizing prose and non-sensical setting.

You can't kick a garbage can without disturbing a changeling, two werewolves, a mage and a weeping ghost while a vampire is killing someone and a wereshark terrorises New-Jersey.

It always felt to me like the unholy wedding of a telenovela and Anne Rice's novels. Any soap opera episode can be turned into a WoD adventure : just replace the old guy with a Vampire Prince, the gardener with a werewolf and the young lovers nemesis with a technocrat Mage.

It's pretty much The Young and the Restless, with a supplement of fangs and fur.

It would have been so much fun if it was written and advertised as a monster mash soap opera simulator. Instead we got literal social justice warriors who try to enforce their political views on the laws of physics while brutally and pointlessly killing everything in their path.

Quote from: cranebump;962640Waiting for the first FR blast (which has sold moderately well...or more...).:-)

FR, like about every TSR setting. Started out fine. And later iterations sucked all the joy out of it.

Greyhawk I've heard had this happen. I missed it as I was happy with my boxed set.

Forgotten Realms and Dragonlance are in competition for title of posterchild for this.

Dark Sun devolved.

Karameikos was turned into Mystara which totally sucked every erg of openness from the setting.

Star Frontiers would have been ruined by Zebulons Guide if ZG werent effectively a new game and setting.

Gamma World up till Alternity gradually devolved into stupider and stupider.

Freaking Spelljammer and maybee Planescape are the only two that somehow didnt and that because both were so weird to begin with nothing you could do with the setting could break it.

Quote from: Krimson;962939I could never get into Shadowrun because my first Cyberpunk experience was William Gibson unless you count Blade Runner, and my ADD did not like the idea of mixing D&D into it.

Oddly enough the fantasy races are the only thing keeping me interested in the game. If I wanted a cyberpunk game I'm sure there are options more palatable to me, but at least I can play an oni I suppose.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;962942It would have been so much fun if it was written and advertised as a monster mash soap opera simulator. Instead we got literal social justice warriors who try to enforce their political views on the laws of physics while brutally and pointlessly killing everything in their path.

I'd say it'd be fine if the fluff was less heavy handed, but I suppose fluff is all they really have isn't it? My group asked me once why I'm so aggressively opposed to playing a WoD system and honestly the best answer I had is that I don't even see room for a game beneath the morass of social commentary. I have a hard time believing they aren't just fiction books masquerading as a game system. Are there rules? Do you roll dice? I may never know.

Quote from: Omega;962947Freaking Spelljammer and maybee Planescape are the only two that somehow didnt and that because both were so weird to begin with nothing you could do with the setting could break it.

  Ravenloft endures. It had some problems in the latter part of the 3.5 run, but the core endures.

Quote from: Nihilistic Mind;962852Very personal reactions against these:
Eberron as a setting.
Shadowrun as a setting and system.
Palladium's system.

I echo points 1 and 3 (especially point 1). No experience with Shadowrun.

On topic. For me theres games that are popular but for whatever reason just dont click for me. I cant think of any right off that totally repulsed me other than Sanguine's Albedo RPG and that is partially because they yanked the IP deal out from under me when I made the mistake of showing them my manuscript in progress. And then totally botched the book. AND stuck in a few art pieces that aren't even Steve's or from the comic! ARGH! But cant say it was actually popular. Ive not met anyone who had it and liked it. There must be some out there. But they arent speaking up.

Gumshoe and Trail of Cthulhu pretty much turned me off in the first few pages with their pretentious attempt to fix something that wasnt broken to begin with.

Runescape might count. But from other peoples comments here I just chalk it up to having the bad luck to have the less than optimal starter box from Avalon. I can see its a good system. But the damn layout is a mess to me and makes processing the rules harder.

Oh and honourable mention goes to 4e D&D Gamma World. Everyone praises the mechanics as 4e D&D done right. And then savages the slapstick setting and attached CCG as being GW in name only. Doesn't help that the writers insult the players right out the gate if they baulk at the near total lack of choice in chargen. oh joy. not.

Quote from: Armchair Gamer;962952Ravenloft endures. It had some problems in the latter part of the 3.5 run, but the core endures.

I didnt like the 3e version of Masque of the Red Death in its tone and changes. But it is a nice little reference for Victorian era playing. The rules and setting just seemed, lacking somehow?

Havent seen the 3e Ravenloft. I know theres some who dont like the change in 2e of Ravenloft to a demiplane.

5e D&D sucks ass.

3e&4e Earthdawn are horrible clusterfucks of stupidness

Oh yeah, Eberron seemed amazingly weak. I got the 4e hardback and gave it away. So dull. Worse than Kalamar.