Quote from: CRKrueger;964678I do note

What I note is that you failed to provide a quote of me saying the thing you lied about me saying. Then you went on to lie about me saying some other stuff I never said.

So here's my final question for you: Why would I bother continuing a discussion with a proven, unrepentant liar?

(It's a rhetorical question.)

Quote from: Justin Alexander;965191What I note is that you failed to provide a quote of me saying the thing you lied about me saying. Then you went on to lie about me saying some other stuff I never said.

So here's my final question for you: Why would I bother continuing a discussion with a proven, unrepentant liar?

(It's a rhetorical question.)

Ooo, nice fake outrage to try and sell the dodge.  I guess that's a "no" on having actually read the Deadlands texts, eh?

Quote from: Omega;964107I've seen people bash the various WoD settings and while Im not overly fond of them I think part of the problem for others seems to be they didnt bother actually reading the backstory enough. If at all. Moreso in later iterations where they tried to merge the settings into one. Its an odd approach. But it works perfectly for the sort of combined setting they eventually went with.

Yeah, probably.

World of Darkness games are weird; they present the setting in the core books via mediocre-at-best in-character fiction that you really end up wanting to skip past. But then when you actually play the game, on an individual scale with a group of player characters, it works pretty well. And only then do you go back, give the mediocre introductory fiction a second look, and realize that, as often as not, it was actually fairly relevant in what it was suggesting and describing to the way you ended up getting the damned game to work.

It's the same deal with the metaplot. You hate it when you first read about it...and then, months later, you somehow find yourself mining it for ideas to use.

They...reward thorough digestion, let's say.

Quote from: Omega;963692Dark Sun: It sounds interesting and looks potentially interesting on paper. But once you start looking at the setting and the situation it starts to feel a little, or a-lot off? It didnt seem to live up to its own hype and the setting felt kinda... bland? And then 2nd ed tossed some of the premise and added in an invasion and whatever and it actually felt more bland somehow.

Planescape is the other that evokes this feeling. Even moreso for me. Really should have been its own dimension or something rather than trying to glue it onto the outer planes.

Huh. I'm with you on Planescape, but I'm not sure about Dark Sun. I had a lot of fun with it when it first came out.

With regards to Deadlands, I don't think anyone can accuse me of being an SJW, but as an historian I found it beyond the limits of believable and very obviously a whitewashing to treat racial relations in their Confederacy the way they did. I find that kind of thing immensely stupid and annoying, whether it was well-meaning or not.

Also, it seems to me that some nerds have a kind of love-affair with the CSA, not necessarily out of racist motives but because they somehow think it's "more exciting".  Aces & Eights was way less egregious with the whole "it's the 19th century but race relations are just like the 1990s" deal, but they also somehow thought it would be way more interesting to have a setting where the Confederacy still exists, rather than play in the authentic wild west which was absolutely shaped by the END of the civil war and would not have been even remotely the same had the war gone differently.

Quote from: RPGPundit;965473With regards to Deadlands, I don't think anyone can accuse me of being an SJW, but as an historian I found it beyond the limits of believable and very obviously a whitewashing to treat racial relations in their Confederacy the way they did. I find that kind of thing immensely stupid and annoying, whether it was well-meaning or not.

Also, it seems to me that some nerds have a kind of love-affair with the CSA, not necessarily out of racist motives but because they somehow think it's "more exciting".  Aces & Eights was way less egregious with the whole "it's the 19th century but race relations are just like the 1990s" deal, but they also somehow thought it would be way more interesting to have a setting where the Confederacy still exists, rather than play in the authentic wild west which was absolutely shaped by the END of the civil war and would not have been even remotely the same had the war gone differently.

Leaving the supernatural alone and sticking with Aces & Eights, I think a USA/CSA can still get you the Wild West, only even Wilder.

• Territories stay territories for longer, because there is no single Eastern Industrial Juggernaut to steamroll and assimilate everything.
• The native tribes can hold out longer or even thrive, for the same reason.
• Two American nations, plus continental holdings from the French, British, and Spanish make the politics and espionage way more interesting.
• Mexico is likely to be much stronger relatively, and Texas remain independent.
• Everyone's too busy to stop the Mormons from making their own country.

The real "Wild West" was a very short period in time due to the incredible expansion of the fully United States.  Anything that slows that down is going to be better for a long-term campaign I think.

Quote from: RPGPundit;965472Huh. I'm with you on Planescape, but I'm not sure about Dark Sun. I had a lot of fun with it when it first came out.

Sigil is a pretty fun city to start a campaign in. I will always ignore the Faction Wars and just use the setting as a jump point to adventure.

Quote from: RPGPundit;965473With regards to Deadlands, I don't think anyone can accuse me of being an SJW, but as an historian I found it beyond the limits of believable and very obviously a whitewashing to treat racial relations in their Confederacy the way they did. I find that kind of thing immensely stupid and annoying, whether it was well-meaning or not.

Also, it seems to me that some nerds have a kind of love-affair with the CSA, not necessarily out of racist motives but because they somehow think it's "more exciting".  Aces & Eights was way less egregious with the whole "it's the 19th century but race relations are just like the 1990s" deal, but they also somehow thought it would be way more interesting to have a setting where the Confederacy still exists, rather than play in the authentic wild west which was absolutely shaped by the END of the civil war and would not have been even remotely the same had the war gone differently.

Personally I think that no what-if scenario has ever been as interesting as actual history. Crazy, weird stuff happens all the time in real life.

Quote from: CRKrueger;965515The real "Wild West" was a very short period in time due to the incredible expansion of the fully United States.

Any chance you'll define what you mean by "real Wild West"?

Add another vote for Shadowrun as one hell of a lame idea. Adding elves and shit does nothing for the CP genre.

In fact, adding magic and fantasy elements to other genres is tired.

Quote from: Dumarest;965596Any chance you'll define what you mean by "real Wild West"?

Real as in the one that existed in reality, as opposed to the supernatural one of Deadlands or the alt-history one of Aces & Eights.

FASA's Battletech and Palladium's Robotech both suck as settings and games. If they were trying to create a game that emulated giant robot action from anime and manga, they missed the mark by a very wide margin. R Talsorian Games' Mekton beats both of them hands down in emulating the genre.

Quote from: CRKrueger;965622Real as in the one that existed in reality, as opposed to the supernatural one of Deadlands or the alt-history one of Aces & Eights.

Sorry, I meant the time frame you are referring to in the previous post. I know what the word real means; I just don't know what period you are referring to as the "real Wild West."

Quote from: jeff37923;965630If they were trying to create a game that emulated giant robot action from anime and manga...

I don't think they were, actually. Battletech has nothing to do with Japanese cartoons and comics aside from using the giant robots for a war game, and Robotech is emulating a specific American TV show that recycled art from three different Japanese cartoons into a new story. Personally I think the Robotech setting is pretty fun.

Quote from: Dumarest;965631Sorry, I meant the time frame you are referring to in the previous post. I know what the word real means; I just don't know what period you are referring to as the "real Wild West."

I wasn't referring to a "Real Wild West", I was referring to the real-world "Wild West". If you're asking me to define "Wild West" - America, West of the Mississippi, roughly last half of the 19th century.