Quote from: RPGPundit;452498I don't think any of the three (greyhawk, FR, or Mystara) would look right to either a geologist or a geographer.

RPGPundit

Why would that matter?

Quote from: RPGPundit;452498I don't think any of the three (greyhawk, FR, or Mystara) would look right to either a geologist or a geographer.

RPGPundit

The map of Mystara IIRC started out as a map of the Earth for 135 million years ago or so, though I suppose the fine details (where forests are etc) might be a bit dubious.

Counterpoint: the settings which pride themselves on things like realistic geology (e.g. Harn and Kalamar) tend to be dull as hell.

Best thing about GH is Gygax. Gary's imagination is so fertile in this work. I can almost imagine him in those thick-rimmed glasses, smoking butts, feverishly typing away at the manuscript as the ideas came to him.

While we are talking about fantasy geography, here's my pet peeve: discrete "forests" sitting as islands within plains or farmland. It's an artifact of modern times, when forest cover has been greatly reduced. In pre-modern times, and many parts of the world still today, forest is the predominant landcover when climate allows, with strips and islands of cultivated land hacked out from it. It's not only geographically more natural, it suits the idea of a mysterious, untamed fantasy world better.

I blame the maps used to illustrate early editions of LotR.

Quote from: Melan;452536Counterpoint: the settings which pride themselves on things like realistic geology (e.g. Harn and Kalamar) tend to be dull as hell.

Says you!  :rant:

My Greyhawk group had a soil scientist, a structural geologist and a glacial geographer in it. There was a lot of fun to be had with retro-fitting argumentation. The lay of the land is sorta okay, but the climates are bonkers. Especially as the Flaenass is just a little appendix to Oerik.

The biggest problem with the Realms, btw, happens to be its ridiculous sparse settlement. The Realms only would function as the do with cars & trucks.

Want the original points of light setting? Go to Faerun. Way way emptier than the Wilderlands.

BTW, Harns has nothing on Geology as far as I know. Climate, Geography but no Geology save some plate tectonics

On a related note, the well known Lord of the rings maps have been drawn by a professional Geographer, and the fine lady did the Dragonlance and Realms atlases too.

Quote from: The_Shadow;452547While we are talking about fantasy geography, here's my pet peeve: discrete "forests" sitting as islands within plains or farmland. It's an artifact of modern times, when forest cover has been greatly reduced. In pre-modern times, and many parts of the world still today, forest is the predominant landcover when climate allows, with strips and islands of cultivated land hacked out from it. It's not only geographically more natural, it suits the idea of a mysterious, untamed fantasy world better.

I blame the maps used to illustrate early editions of LotR.

It used to rain alot more, creating more biodiversity than we generally perceive today. There were places in ancient times where the forests were surrounded by plains or even deserts.

North Africa. Much greener before the waters of the great flood subsided. ...and the jungles inland there were a series of interconnected archiapelagos of green surrounded by dry and dirty highlands. My research shows that inland seas existed to the west of the Nile, and that the continent itself has risen and fallen in places as much as 200m. In Early Egyptian times, vast swamps south and west of the Nile were famed for the crocodiles, and a great temple to the Crocodile God was built by one of the early Pharoahs in an area west of the Upper Nile that is now complete desert. I think National Geographic did an article last year on the Whale bones that were found out in the Egyptian desert.

The Syrian Highlands... for as long as anyone can remember the North-South mountain chain there were home to great cedar forests, while the rest of the land remained sparse and dry.

In the time when the Greeks first established colonies along the Coast of North Africa, the entire coastal region was a verdant mix of forests, grasslands and scrub teeming with wildlife, which was described by the greek colonists as a paradise. There were Zebras and Lions and Crocodiles along the Mediterranean coast both there, and as far north as Israel (where they dug up butchered and cooked Croc, Rhino, and large Turtle bones last year at one of the ancient settlements there).

Europe North of the Alps, even as late as the Roman era was almost entirely forest, swamps, and bogs.

After the last Ice age in North America, the retreating ice gave way to light pine scrub forests interspersed with grasslands.  Previously many areas were Savannah like, intermixed with pine and grasslands. The grasslands over time gave way to heavy pine forests.

Historically the causes of major deforestation events should not be limited to man. A great meteor strike created forest fires that burned the better part of North America about 11,900 years ago, and hastened the die-off of the last of the Megalithic species, North American Mammoths, Elephants, Rhinos, and Horses, the Sabre Toothed-Tiger. Forests re-grew rapidly though in the rich layer of ash that was deposited along the eastern seaboard. Previously many areas were Savannah like, intermixed with pine. Burning rocks and debris from this strike near the Hudson Bay rained fiery rocks down as far south as the Carolina Coast creating many secondary impact craters all over the area inbetween that were more than 1km long or in diameter. Some of these craters still survive today.

Tiny forest predators are another cause of deforestation. An example of this is the Rocky Mountain Pine Beetle. My videos from last summer show 30% of the forested Rocky Mountain National Park is currently already dead or dying. In another hundred years, the rocky mountain pine forests in Northern Colorado will be nearly depleted, replaced by rock and scrublands, except along the water runoff valleys. Aspens, and Elm and Cottonwood trees would thrive, but I'm not seeing any major replanting, so it will be awhile before the pine forests are naturally replaced there.

Quote from: Bloody Stupid Johnson;452529The map of Mystara IIRC started out as a map of the Earth for 135 million years ago or so, though I suppose the fine details (where forests are etc) might be a bit dubious.

That's true, and I suppose you could select a particular chunk of earth's modern map (say, the southeast corner of the united states) and it would look "blocky".

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;452699That's true, and I suppose you could select a particular chunk of earth's modern map (say, the southeast corner of the united states) and it would look "blocky".

RPGPundit

You have a point - I would think of a map of europe and the near east as a better candidate for an RPG map than the southeast US, though.

Quote from: Cole;452709You have a point - I would think of a map of europe and the near east as a better candidate for an RPG map than the southeast US, though.

Wouldn't that depend on what kind of RPG?

I'm going to be using the Southwest in my nWoD western horror game.

Quote from: Blackhand;452761Wouldn't that depend on what kind of RPG?

I'm going to be using the Southwest in my nWoD western horror game.

Yeah it would definitely depend on the RPG...I just mean the landform, not what it represents.

Quote from: Cole;452709You have a point - I would think of a map of europe and the near east as a better candidate for an RPG map than the southeast US, though.

Agreed.

Which is why I came up with this, in November 29th, 2008:



Never got to use it in actual play, though.

Also, losing the bizarre juxtaposition of radically different cultures does detract a bit from Mystara's charm, IMHO.

Quote from: Cole;452709You have a point - I would think of a map of europe and the near east as a better candidate for an RPG map than the southeast US, though.

I don't think it matters; not if all you're doing is a copy of the topographical outline that you then fill in however you want.   As someone pointed out, Mystara is basically that, taking a real map of earth millions of years in the past for its template.

RPGPundit

Quote from: The Butcher;452924Agreed.

Which is why I came up with this, in November 29th, 2008:



Never got to use it in actual play, though.

Also, losing the bizarre juxtaposition of radically different cultures does detract a bit from Mystara's charm, IMHO.

And once again all I'm getting is a frog in an ice cube telling me "domain unregistered", instead of the actual image.

RPGPundit