Quote from: RunningLaser;826492It would be nice if WoTC did release small adventures- maybe 7-10 page ones, as free pdfs on their site.  Small adventures don't have to be amazing, just entertaining.

All they'd have to do is release their Adventure League Expeditions once they have retired a season. Many people haven't gone through the Tyranny of Dragons 4+ 5-10 lvl Expeditions yet. And ToD has something like 8+ 1-5 lvl Expeditions as well.

Too bad they got rid of their magazines, though. That'd be a nice place to drop their bite-sized adventures. Maybe even a place to post a few homebrew creations. Probably was not enough Hasbro$ Bucks to be worth it, however.

I really don't like the style of module typical of 'adventure paths' and the recent 5E releases. The word count is enormously too high, described spaces often actually quite small and 'funnel like', and the adventures themselves feel quite programed and rail-road-y. If I were emperor of the universe I would force WotC to put out some things of the style and structure of the old pastel modules, plus a boxed set or two for settings.

they used to release small adventures on there website

with a little bit of messing around you can still find them on the archive i intend to run legend of the silver skeleton when my party reaches that level

Quote from: Larsdangly;826521I really don't like the style of module typical of 'adventure paths' and the recent 5E releases. The word count is enormously too high, described spaces often actually quite small and 'funnel like', and the adventures themselves feel quite programed and rail-road-y. If I were emperor of the universe I would force WotC to put out some things of the style and structure of the old pastel modules, plus a boxed set or two for settings.

Murder at Baldur's Gate and Legacy of the Crystal Shard are both shorter and more open adventures. However, many people seem to discount them, which I am guessing has led to WotC focussing on the adventure paths instead.

The real thing I'm currently missing are setting books.

What I'd particularly like to see is the 5E core book approach applied to individual campaign settings - no splatbook-like sprawl of additional supplements, just a very complete overview of the whole thing where you can satisfyingly run campaigns in the world for ages from the main book. (Ideally either complete-in-one-book, or with a Player's Guide/DM's Guide division.)

My suspicion is that they won't do such a thing for Forgotten Realms, partly because the setting is too dang detailed and partly because it's the assumed setting for the core books and most of the Adventurer's League stuff, but if as the Forbes interview suggests they shift gears to give a special look to a particular campaign world for a few adventure releases it might make sense to herald that sort of thing with a setting guide.

Quote from: Skywalker;826684Murder at Baldur's Gate and Legacy of the Crystal Shard are both shorter and more open adventures. However, many people seem to discount them, which I am guessing has led to WotC focussing on the adventure paths instead.

People like to see some stats in the book, also they are seen as 'for organised play'.
I'm glad I bought Crystal Shard, it works really well as a generic campaign setting.

Quote from: S'mon;826721People like to see some stats in the book, also they are seen as 'for organised play'.

I get that, though there aren't much stats in the Tyranny of Dragons or Princes of the Apocalypse books either TBH. I think its just mostly that they get overlooked due to their earlier release.

Good money after bad? They gotcha good.

To date, I've spent exactly $0.00 on 5e. so if they got me good, I am impressed by how. I already have Basic PHB .pdf, DMG/MM .pdf, some Legend of Crystal Shards MM .pdf, 2 Adventure League season updates, & EE Players Companion .pdf (new spells, new races, etc.).

That said, what stopped me from getting LotCS is price. It was like $25 during the playtest, and I just was not in the market back then for such a module. Having played through Hoard of the Dragon Queen and hearing about Rise of Tiamat, and now seeing Princes of the Apocalyse... I am thinking if I were to pick up stuff it would be Starter Set and LotCS. They seem like they have the most sandbox return value.

Not really into grand campaigns that rocket PCs through levels. I could care less about PC widgets ROFLStomping the game before the GM gets a handle on strategy & tactics. So HotDQ, RoT, and PoA are very much DOA to me, especially after a run through or lengthy peek. There's just better free material out there. (Besides, who wants a rehash of stale memories — what's next Tomb of Horrors season?) That said, I hear nothing but glowing reviews of LotCS, so that grabs my attention.

to be fair its kind of vital to have a tomb of horrors release

although i expect it will come with a new flood of people thinking it was in some way meant to represent what gygax was like and taking it to seriously.

Quote from: Skywalker;826684Murder at Baldur's Gate and Legacy of the Crystal Shard are both shorter and more open adventures. However, many people seem to discount them, which I am guessing has led to WotC focussing on the adventure paths instead.

I was actually surprised and extremely pleased when I found those at my local Barnes and Noble, and snapped them up instantly. I wasn't sure if a D&D Next designed game would fit with 5E but I figured it was close enough that I could wing it.

Quote from: Opaopajr;826737To date, I've spent exactly $0.00 on 5e. so if they got me good, I am impressed by how. I already have Basic PHB .pdf, DMG/MM .pdf, some Legend of Crystal Shards MM .pdf, 2 Adventure League season updates, & EE Players Companion .pdf (new spells, new races, etc.).

That said, what stopped me from getting LotCS is price. It was like $25 during the playtest, and I just was not in the market back then for such a module. Having played through Hoard of the Dragon Queen and hearing about Rise of Tiamat, and now seeing Princes of the Apocalyse... I am thinking if I were to pick up stuff it would be Starter Set and LotCS. They seem like they have the most sandbox return value.

Not really into grand campaigns that rocket PCs through levels. I could care less about PC widgets ROFLStomping the game before the GM gets a handle on strategy & tactics. So HotDQ, RoT, and PoA are very much DOA to me, especially after a run through or lengthy peek. There's just better free material out there. (Besides, who wants a rehash of stale memories — what's next Tomb of Horrors season?) That said, I hear nothing but glowing reviews of LotCS, so that grabs my attention.

How do you think 5e runs with the free stuff and no paid books?  How about free material plus adding the MM? For various reasons, I am rather averse to paying, but the idea of using the formally free material is interesting (it can be free via torrent, but I don't really want that either).

I've been running a PbP RAW here on this forum for over 8 months now. Outside of a lack of monsters for the first 3 months, and some challenges porting over 2e monster ideas, it's pretty easy now. A lot of monster creation is surprisingly modular; take X special ability, add Y senses, sprinkle Z skills, very easy to bake your own creations.

Granted, if it was face-to-face we could have reduced those 8 months to something like 2 or 3 sessions. The party is lvl 2 as soon as they go to Long Rest, but like kids they are fighting sleep afraid they'll miss something new. They also really put me through my paces regarding the RAW rules.

The Basic PHB has plenty to cover most situations. Most trouble I had was with the party splitting to the four winds and trying to gauge worthwhile distance & time. Thankfully there's enough examples on Travel Times, Stealth, Crawl, Lighting, Cover, etc. to extrapolate enough. Though the party did make me bust out the algebra at times as they'd swing from exploration to combat to social all over the map simultaneously.

The Basic MM/DMG gives you way more monsters to work with (way more than LotCS and HotDQ), and a handy dandy CR compilation (which is mostly wonky given 5e lethality). The big grab for Basic MM/DMG is more pre-fab widgets for Senses, Abilities, Lair Actions and the like. I already had to create my own creature more than once beforehand, and this would have made it easier back then. However LotCS & HotDQ & EE PC does give more spells to sprinkle about, so...

Overall, Basic 5e .pdfs is all you really need. The print PHB is mostly for player tinkering to min/max (which is mercifully hard to do) and the print MM & DMG is mostly for new GMs struggling to bring the challenge back once they flipped all those switches on. Outside of some fun specialized archetypes, the headache really is not much worth it (keep a very keen eye on certain feats and spells!), the Basic .pdf is far more manageable.

As to need, it's easier to run Basic right away and there's less clutter to crap up the game. I'd personally start with that instead. Besides, it's healthy to get used to telling your players 'no' — easier to add in than subtract out.

Given the surplus of older (A)D&D material, you don't really need the printed books. The only one I'd bother with eventually is the PHB, for the archetypes, several classes, and races. Otherwise it works swimmingly.

Thanks for the explanation. I have not given the Basic a gander since the initial release. I will need to check it out again.  I'm not DMing now, but the last run I had included a rolling cast of 12 players (and many were newbies).  This led to too much time wasted explaining the concepts and creating characters (even Myth & Magic has too many bells and whistles with Race, Class, Attributes, WP (fighting style, maneuvers, NWP, Languages, gear and Class Talents).  

5e Basic might be a good solution, it is free, easy to download and a bit easier for newbies than the full blown version.  Yes, I know there are plenty of other OSRish games out there, but telling strangers you are playing the newest version of D&D has some explain-ability,cache and appeal that the other games do not.  

For example with Myth & Magic- "Well you see, its based on 2e which was the 90s version of the games, but it folded in some options from late in the edition and then incorporated some mechanics from 3e, but did it in a way that kept the 2e math.  Plus there was a 3 year open development period that I participated in, but all that material is gone to the ether, and the KS ran off the rails, but the game is good."  Whew.  

Its easier to say, "Basic D&D, download here".  

One thing I found that helps is to keep most of the intensive math behind the GM screen, especially for new players. For my PbP I routinely did otherwise because I was playing with veteran players, and because I declared I was running RAW I needed to display at times to offer verification for trust. But new players often get overwhelmed and it is just easier to do the 'stage magic behind the scenes'.

So don't give up on your Myth & Magic. It might be more presentation than anything else.

One thing I found useful in 5e that speeds up post-3e D&D-isms is the Passive check, a codified 4e idea of an older concept. Basically by demarcating a competency threshold, it quickly gives GMs ideas how to feed differing levels of description to players and let them do with that as they please. And it's not just for Perception or Investigation, as you can use it for other checks, like Persuasion, Deception, or Vehicle (land) (WIS): Calm Draft Animal, and just assume a base level of professionalism.

It's the old idea of assumed adventurer competence, or NWP professional level skill, but with a d20 value.