Since someone asked the opposite earlier about bad RPGs and settings that are popular, what's the best RPG or setting that's actually unpopular? Any wonderful settings no one seems to like or play? For me, I'd say pretty much any historical setting when you don't add in supernatural and fantastic elements to them seems to be unfortunately underplayed in general to the point that most games seem to feel compelled to add "plus magic!" to try to sell the setting. It's 1889 London with Sherlock Holmes and Jack the Ripper...plus magic! It's hardboiled 1940s L.A. homicide detectives...plus vampires! It's the court of Louis XIII and Cardinal Richelieu...plus dragons!
Although both have a following, I think Wilderlands of High Fantasy and Harn are both low sales (for numerous reasons, many of them business decisions) that in my opinion should have a larger base than the sales would indicate.
GURPS.
/ducks
Al-Qadim is a great setting I think.
Quote from: Voros;964738Al-Qadim is a great setting I think.
Seconded.
Totems of the Dead. It's an amazing game for a great system and the best S&S game I've ever personally experienced, but I've yet to actually encounter anyone who's actually been in a campaign.
I don't know if it's strictly 'unpopular' as such, but I do think that Steve Jackson Games dropped a baby with In Nomine which should have been bigger than Vampire in the 90s. The French game actually predates Vampire, but it captures the same dark satirical elements and in some ways has more immediate playability. Unfortunately, they took way too long to bring out the US-targetted version and could never quite get the tone of the game right, while the actual organisation of the core rules is all over the place.
Anther thing, for me, of note is Something Rotten in Kislev the much maligned 4th part in WFRP's Enemy Within campaign. It never really fitted into the whole campaign, being more of a diversion to get characters away from The Empire while it starts to fall, and it even encourages the use of original characters. The lighter tone is somewhat different to the darker earlier episodes too. All that said, it's written by Ken Rolsten (of Paranoia fame) and it's quite hilarious to play. Our group actually had more fun with Something Rotten in Kislev more than any other part of The Enemy within campaign.
Jonathan Tweet's Everway and Mark Rein-Hagen's Wraith: The Oblivion were both commercial flops, but are arguably their best respective works and had they ever got together again could have combined their system and setting writing skills for something quite special I think.
Wraith: The Oblivion was IMO the best of the original WoD games. The setting depth of Wraith was fantastic. Coinage made of souls...
Quote from: Voros;964738Al-Qadim is a great setting I think.
I've never seen it, I only know the name. What makes it great? Would it be useful for a Sinbad sailing around the Islamic world campaign? Does it use Islam or a stand-in monotheistic religion so as not to offend? I know just about zilch about it aside from it's pseudo-Arabian.
I thought Something Rotten in Kislev was a Twilight: 2000 module....
Quote from: Dumarest;964750I've never seen it, I only know the name. What makes it great? Would it be useful for a Sinbad sailing around the Islamic world campaign? Does it use Islam or a stand-in monotheistic religion so as not to offend? I know just about zilch about it aside from it's pseudo-Arabian.
It has the usual D&D polytheism (12 gods) that looks oddly like real-world monotheism...
Quote from: Spellslinging Sellsword;964726Although both have a following, I think Wilderlands of High Fantasy and Harn are both low sales (for numerous reasons, many of them business decisions) that in my opinion should have a larger base than the sales would indicate.
I get so wrapped up in Wilderlands I forget very few people actually play it. :) Yeah, those are two good suggestions.
Was thinking of starting this thread too. :cool:
pre 3e Gamma World: Ward for some god unknown reason did his best to undermine the game and the stigma has lingered ever since and each iteration has been stupider than the last. Exceptions being the Alternity and d20m versions. But the d20m GW was effectively in name only.
Star Frontiers gets some derision, mainly because of the stupid Zebulons Guide which might as well be a separate setting.
Shadowrun: Lost track of the morons who sneer at the fantasy elements and just dismiss the game and the setting.
Furry Outlaws and Furry Pirates: People too often dismiss both as just Disney animals. Ignoring that both are fairly good historical settings and that you can toss the magic and supernatural elements and play a fairly nice historical campaign.
Beyond the Supernatural: Some morons dismiss it because its from Palladium. But its a pretty good pre-Rifts/Megadamage setting and system. Same with After the Bomb.
Quote from: Omega;964792Was thinking of starting this thread too. :cool:
pre 3e Gamma World: Ward for some god unknown reason did his best to undermine the game and the stigma has lingered ever since and each iteration has been stupider than the last. Exceptions being the Alternity and d20m versions. But the d20m GW was effectively in name only.
Star Frontiers gets some derision, mainly because of the stupid Zebulons Guide which might as well be a separate setting.
Shadowrun: Lost track of the morons who sneer at the fantasy elements and just dismiss the game and the setting.
Furry Outlaws and Furry Pirates: People too often dismiss both as just Disney animals. Ignoring that both are fairly good historical settings and that you can toss the magic and supernatural elements and play a fairly nice historical campaign.
Beyond the Supernatural: Some morons dismiss it because its from Palladium. But its a pretty good pre-Rifts/Megadamage setting and system. Same with After the Bomb.
Bit defensive here really, and you are confusing 'taste' for popularity. Shadowrun, for example, is an extremely popular rpg regardless of it's critics.
Quote from: Dumarest;964712Since someone asked the opposite earlier about bad RPGs and settings that are popular, what's the best RPG or setting that's actually unpopular? Any wonderful settings no one seems to like or play? For me, I'd say pretty much any historical setting when you don't add in supernatural and fantastic elements to them seems to be unfortunately underplayed in general to the point that most games seem to feel compelled to add "plus magic!" to try to sell the setting. It's 1889 London with Sherlock Holmes and Jack the Ripper...plus magic! It's hardboiled 1940s L.A. homicide detectives...plus vampires! It's the court of Louis XIII and Cardinal Richelieu...plus dragons!
Well, I'd say Spellbound Kingdoms. It's a setting where magic actually can go wild on you, because it responds to strong emotions, like in most stories, and sometimes that leads to magical catastrophes.
But for some reason, I barely hear about it, despite the fact that it also has one of the coolest combat systems out there!
Quote from: Dumarest;964750I've never seen it, I only know the name. What makes it great? Would it be useful for a Sinbad sailing around the Islamic world campaign? Does it use Islam or a stand-in monotheistic religion so as not to offend? I know just about zilch about it aside from it's pseudo-Arabian.
Someone already answered regarding religion, there is a prophet like figure but being D&D the focus is hardly on that aspect. And yes it has a Sinbad-like supplement. It has a very distinctive flavour, some unique twists on magic. A setting that was clearly designed by one person (Jeff Grubb) from the ground up. I'm sure it is as historically flawed for an Arabic expert as the pseduo-medieval settings of D&D but there's lots to like I think.
Quote from: AsenRG;964807Well, I'd say Spellbound Kingdoms. It's a setting where magic actually can go wild on you, because it responds to strong emotions, like in most stories, and sometimes that leads to magical catastrophes.
Sounds great thanks for the heads up.
Pretty much any old setting held together still by nostalgia, that new RPG players have never heard of. See Tekumel - The World of the Petal Throne.
Pretty much anything by me... :D
Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;964838Pretty much any old setting held together still by nostalgia, that new RPG players have never heard of. See Tekumel - The World of the Petal Throne.
New players, by definition, have not heard of much.
I only ran it once, a long time ago, and only for one session, so I don't remember the rules enough to comment on them. However, I always really like the setting for The Morrow Project and the idea at its heart.
Also on the post-apocalyptic side of things, the mood GDW managed to capture with the initial entries in the Twilight: 2000 line was pretty unique. It went to a place that not a lot of roleplaying games attempt to get to. A kind of quiet melancholy, I guess. It never found an audience and the Cold War thawed, so they kept trying to reinvent it. (I think they even tried to spin off a supernatural horror game?) It's obviously dated now and the world is too different to really recapture, but it was a great attempt.
Big Eyes Small Mouth, and in particular the First Edition and its licensed settings (most notably Sailor Moon)
Quote from: TrippyHippy;964741I don't know if it's strictly 'unpopular' as such, but I do think that Steve Jackson Games dropped a baby with In Nomine which should have been bigger than Vampire in the 90s. The French game actually predates Vampire, but it captures the same dark satirical elements and in some ways has more immediate playability. Unfortunately, they took way too long to bring out the US-targetted version and could never quite get the tone of the game right, while the actual organisation of the core rules is all over the place.
I kind of liked the way that it allowed you to skew the game to be dark or humorous, but the rules were kind of a mess, and even when you understood them, the still felt wonky. They weren't really any wonkier than what White Wolf was doing, but I think I resented it more because I expected better from SJG. I'd consider it an almost-classic.
QuoteAnther thing, for me, of note is Something Rotten in Kislev the much maligned 4th part in WFRP's Enemy Within campaign. It never really fitted into the whole campaign, being more of a diversion to get characters away from The Empire while it starts to fall, and it even encourages the use of original characters. The lighter tone is somewhat different to the darker earlier episodes too. All that said, it's written by Ken Rolsten (of Paranoia fame) and it's quite hilarious to play. Our group actually had more fun with Something Rotten in Kislev more than any other part of The Enemy within campaign.
I seem to recall it was not written as part of TEW, but someone had the bright idea to tweak it to make it part of the series. I think that is the root of it bad reputation. It has some really deadly adventures, and TPKd the group I had been running through TEW. Long-running PCs being sent into almost certain death on a mission that had absolutely nothing to do with the main campaign left a bitter aftertaste with everyone in the group. The mission-based nature also felt coercive given the more sandboxy nature of previous installments.
If that book had been released as a stand-alone Kislev supplement, I believe it would be fondly remembered. The Paranoia-esque deadliness would have worked better if players had begun the campaign with that context. [/QUOTE]
Quote from: DavetheLost;964747Wraith: The Oblivion was IMO the best of the original WoD games. The setting depth of Wraith was fantastic. Coinage made of souls...
That had a fantastic setting and there was a good game in there. It took a lot of work to get that out of the core book though. The fantastical nature of the game wasn't really apparent until the supplements.
Quote from: Omega;964792Star Frontiers gets some derision, mainly because of the stupid Zebulons Guide which might as well be a separate setting.
My Star Frontiers stuff turned up in a box in my parent's attic about ten years ago, so I took it out for a spin. It was an impressively clean, simple system. My only complaint was one that was apparent when I first played it decades ago; The
average person has 50 hit points, and laser pistol does something like 1d10 damage. Shootouts are gruelling attrition matches.
It works better if you apply mook rules, reserving the standard hit point rules for PCs and major opposition, with mooks all having less than 20 HP.
QuoteBeyond the Supernatural: Some morons dismiss it because its from Palladium. But its a pretty good pre-Rifts/Megadamage setting and system. Same with After the Bomb.
I guess we are getting into the question of whether we are talking about current popularity or popularity at the time, as Palladium was pretty damn popular. While they could be wonky in places, pre-MDC Palladium games were enormous fun.
Quote from: Voros;964813Someone already answered regarding religion, there is a prophet like figure but being D&D the focus is hardly on that aspect. And yes it has a Sinbad-like supplement. It has a very distinctive flavour, some unique twists on magic. A setting that was clearly designed by one person (Jeff Grubb) from the ground up. I'm sure it is as historically flawed for an Arabic expert as the pseduo-medieval settings of D&D but there's lots to like I think.
I don't really have that big an issue with an Arabian Nights setting being polytheistic. Islam isn't that old a religion, and the Middle Eastern civilization goes back a long time before it. The Arabian Nights seems like a way to smuggle pre-Islamic mythology into the Islamic era. Playing polytheistic Arabian Nights is kind of like playing pagans in an Arthurian setting. You are just digging into the pagan mythology it uses as a basis.
Quote from: The Scythian;964853Also on the post-apocalyptic side of things, the mood GDW managed to capture with the initial entries in the Twilight: 2000 line was pretty unique. It went to a place that not a lot of roleplaying games attempt to get to. A kind of quiet melancholy, I guess. It never found an audience and the Cold War thawed, so they kept trying to reinvent it. (I think they even tried to spin off a supernatural horror game?) It's obviously dated now and the world is too different to really recapture, but it was a great attempt.
I ran a campaign of that, and it did have an amazing tone. The rules supported it well too. Scavenging for food, and hiding out while trying to distill fuel for vehicles. The players eventually made a costly raid on the base of some Soviet deserters to steal enough fuel to make it to Krakow, where the complex web of espionage was waiting for them.
I could see it going over well the kind of of OSR players that really get into the resource management and risk element of RPGs, assuming they could get into the Cold War mindset.
Star Frontiers suffered from being presented as a kid's game, not a serious sci-fi-fi RPG. Zeb's just made it worse. The base Star Frontiers mechanics were a sound enough system and the setting had a lot of potential. Look at what the fan community has done with it.
Beyond the Supernatural 1e is a fantastic game, it handles varrying sorts of horror. At the time it was new our group loved it. That was back in the days when Palladium Books games were still good, before the insane k3wl pow3rz creep started to set in. The early books of Palladium Fantasy were also good fun.
Quote from: Baulderstone;964857My Star Frontiers stuff turned up in a box in my parent's attic about ten years ago, so I took it out for a spin. It was an impressively clean, simple system. My only complaint was one that was apparent when I first played it decades ago; The average person has 50 hit points, and laser pistol does something like 1d10 damage. Shootouts are grueling attrition matches.
No, that's not accurate. You've overlooked something.
At their lowest power setting, a laser pistol does 1D10 damage and uses 1 SEU of power. But, it can be 'dialed' to use from 1 to 10 SEU, dealing xD10 based on what you set it to. So at 10 SEU deals 10D10 damage on a successful hit, and the pistol can be fired twice in a round. Sure, it depletes the hell out of a power source, but without appropriate armor or a screen, you'll quickly reduce a PC to slag.
A laser rifle can be set from 1-20 SEU (yes, dealing up to 20D10 damage on a hit). Autopistols and rifles can be fired in burst mode. Gyrojet weapons do less damage, but can be fired repeatedly. Sonic weapons can put out some decent damage. And, we're not even getting into heavy weapons. Archaic melee/missile weapons suck for damage - if you're stuck using them, then it will be a grind in combat. Modern melee weapons can deal out some decent damage.
SF can be quite deadly actually.
Quote from: K Peterson;964878No, that's not accurate. You've overlooked something.
At their lowest power setting, a laser pistol does 1D10 damage and uses 1 SEU of power. But, it can be 'dialed' to use from 1 to 10 SEU, dealing xD10 based on what you set it to. So at 10 SEU deals 10D10 damage on a successful hit, and the pistol can be fired twice in a round. Sure, it depletes the hell out of a power source, but without appropriate armor or a screen, you'll quickly reduce a PC to slag.
A laser rifle can be set from 1-20 SEU (yes, dealing up to 20D10 damage on a hit). Autopistols and rifles can be fired in burst mode. Gyrojet weapons do less damage, but can be fired repeatedly. Sonic weapons can put out some decent damage. And, we're not even getting into heavy weapons. Archaic melee/missile weapons suck for damage - if you're stuck using them, then it will be a grind in combat. Modern melee weapons can deal out some decent damage.
SF can be quite deadly actually.
Yeah, I figured there would be "Civilian Weapons" that came with lower settings and then "Police/Security" and finally "Military" class weapons, so that the bog standard laser pistol wouldn't on average, vaporize the average person.
Then players can illegally modify their pistol like Han Solo. :cool:
Quote from: TrippyHippy;964793Bit defensive here really, and you are confusing 'taste' for popularity. Shadowrun, for example, is an extremely popular rpg regardless of it's critics.
To hear some people talk. No its not popular. Despite outlasting Cyberpunk 2020 for a good while.
Quote from: Baulderstone;964857My only complaint was one that was apparent when I first played it decades ago; The average person has 50 hit points, and laser pistol does something like 1d10 damage. Shootouts are gruelling attrition matches.
Average was more like 45 the average as the stat bell curve peaked at 40-50. A human PC could of course bump that 45 to a 50.
er? Didnt anyone ever use the sliders on the lasers??? A laser pistol has a slider that goes to 10d10. The rifle can crank out a 20d10. Course that would drain a standard 20 SEU clip in one or 2 shots. But hook those babies up to a power pack and watch em fry! The other weapons werent too bad either. Sonic Sword doing 5d10, Electrostunner 4d10, Disruptor doing 6d10(and less at longer ranges) and so on.
Combats tended to be over fairly quick even with defensive suits on. Screens though did drag out a battle. Even at setting 2 on a laser a battle could be over in about 5 rounds. Auto pistols on burst were popular too. A 50 STA opponent could go down in just 2 rounds. (usually 3 from my experience)
You guys are making me want to roll up some Vrusks and Drasalites...I still have the Star Frontiers books, though the box and maps and counters are long gone. Wasn't there a space fighter combat boxed set that came out after the roleplaying boxed set?
Quote from: K Peterson;964878No, that's not accurate. You've overlooked something.
Huh. Objection retracted. I have no issues with the game.
Quote from: Dumarest;964944You guys are making me want to roll up some Vrusks and Drasalites...I still have the Star Frontiers books, though the box and maps and counters are long gone. Wasn't there a space fighter combat boxed set that came out after the roleplaying boxed set?
Yeah, Knight Hawks. There was a lot of cool stuff in Dragon Magazine too during the years when they had their Ares Sci-Fi section.
Quote from: Baulderstone;964857I kind of liked the way that it allowed you to skew the game to be dark or humorous, but the rules were kind of a mess, and even when you understood them, the still felt wonky. They weren't really any wonkier than what White Wolf was doing, but I think I resented it more because I expected better from SJG. I'd consider it an almost-classic.
[
That was my favorite aspect of the game too. Customization was really encouraged especially in the gm's guide. There were so many options and dials to fiddle with. You could emulate Dogma to Legion to Michael or Good Omens and then some even changing the major aspects of the default background like the veracity of different religions and even who the good guys were or who or what you focused on (Angels, Demons, Mortals, Ethereal Gods...) It was a game with allot of replay value due to that. Two campaigns could use the same basic setting but be completely different.
Blue Rose. Quite a good game if you actually get around to playing it, which no one ever seems to do because out of the people who even knows it exists, half are too busy bitching about how it's too politically correct, and the other half are too busy bitching about how it's not politically correct enough.
Quote from: Dumarest;964944You guys are making me want to roll up some Vrusks and Drasalites...I still have the Star Frontiers books, though the box and maps and counters are long gone. Wasn't there a space fighter combat boxed set that came out after the roleplaying boxed set?
Knight Hawks, the starship and space business expansion. Also came with a space wargame.
Quote from: TrippyHippy;964741I don't know if it's strictly 'unpopular' as such, but I do think that Steve Jackson Games dropped a baby with In Nomine which should have been bigger than Vampire in the 90s. The French game actually predates Vampire, but it captures the same dark satirical elements and in some ways has more immediate playability. Unfortunately, they took way too long to bring out the US-targetted version and could never quite get the tone of the game right, while the actual organisation of the core rules is all over the place.
The real issue is that the original game is brilliantly biting black-comedy satire, and SJG instead sold it as a dead-serious Wod-Clone because that's what everyone else was doing.
Quote from: S'mon;964781It has the usual D&D polytheism (12 gods) that looks oddly like real-world monotheism...
That was my biggest issue with Al-Qadim. It's also an issue for me with most western-european medieval-fantasy settings.
Quote from: RPGPundit;965200That was my biggest issue with Al-Qadim. It's also an issue for me with most western-european medieval-fantasy settings.
I find that treating the non-Evil gods as Saints or Saint-analogues, with an All-Creator Over-God hovering somewhere above them, works really well to deal with this issue. It's not massively far from real life, several pagan gods like Brigit (I'm a McBride myself) got translated into Christian Saints.
Quote from: S'mon;965235I find that treating the non-Evil gods as Saints or Saint-analogues, with an All-Creator Over-God hovering somewhere above them, works really well to deal with this issue. It's not massively far from real life, several pagan gods like Brigit (I'm a McBride myself) got translated into Christian Saints.
Yeah, or you can just go with actual monotheism, like I did in Dark Albion.
Quote from: RPGPundit;965977Yeah, or you can just go with actual monotheism, like I did in Dark Albion.
I was referring to how to deal with published fantasy settings that have the "Christian church with pagan god at the altar" problem.
Quote from: RPGPundit;965977Yeah, or you can just go with actual monotheism, like I did in Dark Albion.
Better yet, take out the Unconquered Sun and such substitutes and just use Christianity, Islam, Judaism, etc. I find it makes roleplaying much easier than constantly trying to remember the fake versions as most everyone is familiar with the real deal whether or not they practice any of them.
The GURPS Banestorm setting Yrth gets nothing but grief for using Christianity and Islam. I love Yrth, I'm actually writing a novel set there at the moment. In 1200AD magical storms transported people from Earth to Yrth and for a variety of reasons they still have largely medieval societies. Some people argue they wouldn't but personally, just trying to rebuild and get sorted out is probably a 500 year set back. Never mind all the wizards who don't want gunpowder and internal combustion engines.
Birthright was a fantastically realised medieval setting that got way less love than it deserved.
Burning Wheel is a great role playing game that also gets way less love than deserved.
Cyberpunk 2020, Mekton II, Mekton Zeta, Dream Park - a lot by R Talsorian Games
Traveller when it is not married to the OTU. Traveller was originally a generic science fiction RPG system that could be applied to a lot of literary science fiction. The OTU, however, has overshadowed this by being one of the most detailed and massive settings ever created which has been growing for over 40 years. Many believe that the OTU setting is Traveller. It has only been with MgT1e and Cepheus Engine have things gone back to its origin of being a generic science fiction RPG and non-OTU settings being developed.
Quote from: David Johansen;966024The GURPS Banestorm setting Yrth gets nothing but grief for using Christianity and Islam. I love Yrth, I'm actually writing a novel set there at the moment. In 1200AD magical storms transported people from Earth to Yrth and for a variety of reasons they still have largely medieval societies. Some people argue they wouldn't but personally, just trying to rebuild and get sorted out is probably a 500 year set back. Never mind all the wizards who don't want gunpowder and internal combustion engines.
I seem to recall Cidri from The Fantasy Trip was similar to that (real world religions , not the novel).
Quote from: HorusArisen;966031Birthright was a fantastically realised medieval setting that got way less love than it deserved.
.
Part of Birthrights problem was it came out as TSR was on its last legs. It seems to still have a fanbase even now and at least one of the designers still comments now and then.
I dont think Birthright was unpopular so much as it was not advertised as much and never made it past one expansion I think? It was also minorly competing with Red Steel which has an oddly similar underlying premise. But Red Steel was even less promoted. Birthright had the better production values.
Quote from: jeff37923;966037Cyberpunk 2020, Mekton II, Mekton Zeta, Dream Park - a lot by R Talsorian Games
I've never heard of Mekton being unpopular? Still has a fairly good fanbase.
CP2020 was never unpopular that I ever heard of. In feact some of the fans border on the fanatical. Not counting the one with the doll art. Everyone seems to hate that one. And sometimes more the setting changes than the actual art.
But when Netrunner was sold off to FFG by WOTC they dropped CP2020 and replaced it with FFGs Android setting. WOTC
really had it on for Talsorian.
I had the impression that CP2020 was only unpopular relative to Shadowrun as far as cyberpunk rpgs go. That and its prominence had faded more as the genre's popularity declined overall.
CP2020 has overall the better product. Especially if you count Nights Edge.
But Shadowrun had way more media presence. 3 or 4 console games (one of which never made it to the US) Quite a few novels, even if more than a few sucked. And then another console game, which sucked. At least two CCGs. Minis. An action figure skirmish game. And lastly a new PC game. About the only thing SR is missing now is a cartoon, a TV series, and a comic book. And they may have the comic book covered by now.
Cyberpunk has a CCG. (Technically it also encompasses about any cyberpunk novel or movie as CP2020 is more mainstream cyber. But its never had its own media presence.)
Quote from: Omega;966120CP2020 has overall the better product. Especially if you count Nights Edge.
But Shadowrun had way more media presence. 3 or 4 console games (one of which never made it to the US) Quite a few novels, even if more than a few sucked. And then another console game, which sucked. At least two CCGs. Minis. An action figure skirmish game. And lastly a new PC game. About the only thing SR is missing now is a cartoon, a TV series, and a comic book. And they may have the comic book covered by now.
Cyberpunk has a CCG. (Technically it also encompasses about any cyberpunk novel or movie as CP2020 is more mainstream cyber. But its never had its own media presence.)
Let's pitch a SR screenplay! Anyone know any hollywood types?
Quote from: Omega;966120CP2020 has overall the better product. Especially if you count Nights Edge.
But Shadowrun had way more media presence. 3 or 4 console games (one of which never made it to the US) Quite a few novels, even if more than a few sucked. And then another console game, which sucked. At least two CCGs. Minis. An action figure skirmish game. And lastly a new PC game. About the only thing SR is missing now is a cartoon, a TV series, and a comic book. And they may have the comic book covered by now.
Cyberpunk has a CCG. (Technically it also encompasses about any cyberpunk novel or movie as CP2020 is more mainstream cyber. But its never had its own media presence.)
Yeah, thus the "relative to Shadowrun" part. CP2020 wasn't reviled game but, it had a good and active fanbase (and still does) it was overshadowed (so to speak) by Shadowrun. I wouldn't call it unpopular but it was out done. We may be saying pretty much the same thing but quibbling over terms.
Quote from: Omega;966120CP2020 has overall the better product. Especially if you count Nights Edge.
Fun fact about CP2020 Night's Edge, it is named for a soap opera! Justin Schmidt and a couple of other guys from Dream Pod 9 stopped off at my house as way station on their way to a con in Toronto, me living about halfway there from Montreal, Justin gave me a copy of a manuscript for vampires in cyberpunk that he was working on. He mentioned that they hadn't found a title for it yet and I said "Well, there is that old soap opera The Edge of Night..." The rest as they say is history.
Quote from: DavetheLost;966137Fun fact about CP2020 Night's Edge, it is named for a soap opera! Justin Schmidt and a couple of other guys from Dream Pod 9 stopped off at my house as way station on their way to a con in Toronto, me living about halfway there from Montreal, Justin gave me a copy of a manuscript for vampires in cyberpunk that he was working on. He mentioned that they hadn't found a title for it yet and I said "Well, there is that old soap opera The Edge of Night..." The rest as they say is history.
Oh, fuck. That is just awesome! Shit like this makes me smile.
Quote from: HorusArisen;966031Burning Wheel is a great role playing game that also gets way less love than deserved.
It's a cult favorite in some parts.
Quote from: Omega;966063Part of Birthrights problem was it came out as TSR was on its last legs. It seems to still have a fanbase even now and at least one of the designers still comments now and then.
I dont think Birthright was unpopular so much as it was not advertised as much and never made it past one expansion I think? It was also minorly competing with Red Steel which has an oddly similar underlying premise. But Red Steel was even less promoted. Birthright had the better production values.
It does have a small dedicated fan base but if you were to survey settings it would hardly rank amongst most popular. And certainly lower than it deserves.
Quote from: AaronBrown99;966128Let's pitch a SR screenplay! Anyone know any hollywood types?
Silent Möbius? Essentially Shadowrun with less grunge and fantasy races.
Quote from: Baeraad;964989Blue Rose. Quite a good game if you actually get around to playing it, which no one ever seems to do because out of the people who even knows it exists, half are too busy bitching about how it's too politically correct, and the other half are too busy bitching about how it's not politically correct enough.
Over 1500 people backed the Kickstarter so there are some fans out there. :)
Quote from: Dumarest;966003Better yet, take out the Unconquered Sun and such substitutes and just use Christianity, Islam, Judaism, etc. I find it makes roleplaying much easier than constantly trying to remember the fake versions as most everyone is familiar with the real deal whether or not they practice any of them.
Yeah, you could too. For publishing reasons and personal preference I went with the Unconquered sun as a name, but the church hierarchy is in fact identical to that of the Catholic Church.
Sol Invictus is a perfectly cromulent name. Oh, wait you said Unconquered Sun, that's just lame.
Quote from: DavetheLost;966542Sol Invictus is a perfectly cromulent name. Oh, wait you said Unconquered Sun, that's just lame.
Either are fine, but since in English it's God and not Deus, and Jesus and Iesu, I'm using the name as the Anglish would call it.
Hmm. I'd say Flashing Blades and Bushido both qualify as good RPGs that aren't popular. Morrow Project is nifty, too.
Quote from: Philotomy Jurament;966862Hmm. I'd say Flashing Blades and Bushido both qualify as good RPGs that aren't popular. Morrow Project is nifty, too.
Right on. Both Flashing Blades and Bushido hold up extremely well. I played both for years, and now that I think about it, I used almost no house rules for either game - something very unusual in my experience.
Quote from: Philotomy Jurament;966862Hmm. I'd say Flashing Blades and Bushido both qualify as good RPGs that aren't popular. Morrow Project is nifty, too.
Morrow Project used to be fairly well known. Moreso than Gamma World sometimes. I would not say its unpopular. Just that it faded from public perception as I assume production stopped at some point? I never saw product for it in the 90s?
Quote from: Philotomy Jurament;966862Hmm. I'd say Flashing Blades and Bushido both qualify as good RPGs that aren't popular. Morrow Project is nifty, too.
I'd agree on Flashing Blades, but would replace Bushido with Sengoku Revised.
Do things like Rocketship Empires 1936 count as ever being popular?
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Quote from: Omega;966866Morrow Project used to be fairly well known. Moreso than Gamma World sometimes. I would not say its unpopular. Just that it faded from public perception as I assume production stopped at some point? I never saw product for it in the 90s?
I really liked the more realistic take of Morrow Project. It also did that rare thing in RPGs of explaining why the players/characters don't know much about the world they inhabit. There is a (2013) 4th edition available.
Okay, some of these are going to be really qualified, either in terms of good or in terms of unpopular, but here goes.
GURPS has a non-FTL sci-fi setting called Transhuman Space. It seems to be well regarded, but it's joked about on GURPS forums how everyone acknowledges its' value, but could never figure out what to do in the universe.
Another, not so much unpopular as forgotten. Immortal, if remembered at all is usually remembered for horrible early-mid 90s photoshop art, janky rules, or that that actress from Babylon 5 posed for one of the character groups. While not great, the game world qualifies to me as about as good a mashup of Vampire: the Masquerade and Highlander as I'd ever hope to see. Faint praise I know.
Would Mystara count as unpopular? Because I think that one is pretty good.
Quote from: Philotomy Jurament;966862Hmm. I'd say Flashing Blades and Bushido both qualify as good RPGs that aren't popular.
They're extremely popular in my house. But I always liked FGU better than TSR.
Quote from: AsenRG;966871I'd agree on Flashing Blades, but would replace Bushido with Sengoku Revised.
Why on earth would you do that?! :eek:
Quote from: Omega;966866Morrow Project used to be fairly well known. Moreso than Gamma World sometimes. I would not say its unpopular. Just that it faded from public perception as I assume production stopped at some point? I never saw product for it in the 90s?
There was a kickstarter for a 4th edition 4 years ago - I backed for the pdf. I haven't been paying close attention, but my impression is that further rewards have been slow to be produced. But you can buy the pdf on drivethrurpg.
Quote from: Dumarest;966911Why on earth would you do that?! :eek:
Sengoku has a better system and better treatment of the setting, of course.
Quote from: AsenRG;967017Sengoku has a better system and better treatment of the setting, of course.
Now pull the other one!:p
Quote from: AsenRG;967017Sengoku has a better system and better treatment of the setting, of course.
Senguko uses the fusion system, so named because it fused together aspects of Champion's Hero system with that of Cyberpunk's Interlock system. In practice it meant that there are way too many stats to track your character and some confusion over whether roll 3D6 or D10 on any given task. That said, the physical quality of the book was good, and the writers had clearly done their research.
Bushido, which is less familiar to me, was a Runequest-inspired percentile game I think. The production standards are what they are for an early 80s game and there is possibly less meat in terms of the background material presented. That said, it was more seminal and consequently people will still prefer it as an original idea.
Quote from: TrippyHippy;967028Bushido, which is less familiar to me, was a Runequest-inspired percentile game I think.
"The Bushido system is dice-based, most important rolls being made with a twenty-sided (d20) die."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bushido_(role-playing_game) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bushido_(role-playing_game))
I think the thing that caused resistance to playing was:
"Each character is randomly assigned at birth to a class in the strict feudal hierarchy of Nippon"
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Quote from: TrippyHippy;967028Senguko uses the fusion system, so named because it fused together aspects of Champion's Hero system with that of Cyberpunk's Interlock system. In practice it meant that there are way too many stats to track your character and some confusion over whether roll 3D6 or D10 on any given task. That said, the physical quality of the book was good, and the writers had clearly done their research.
I loved the Sengoku setting material, but thought Fuzion was trash. For a while, I spun together Fantasy Hero and Ninja Hero and ran it in the Sengoku setting.
QuoteBushido, which is less familiar to me, was a Runequest-inspired percentile game I think. The production standards are what they are for an early 80s game and there is possibly less meat in terms of the background material presented. That said, it was more seminal and consequently people will still prefer it as an original idea
Bushido was a thing of beauty that spun lots of cultural tidbits into the system, but a lot of the really cool little features were ahead of their time and sort of flew under the radar, like a system for having your singular PC participate in a mass battle, and a skill system modeling complex tasks.
I honestly think what doomed it is that it wasn't easy to minmax in it when most of the fantasy gaming world at the time were all about the next bit of kickass. But the Japanophile-Sim section of the Venn digram loved it.
Quote from: Willie the Duck;966907Would Mystara count as unpopular? Because I think that one is pretty good.
It is the one system that WoTC seems to have no interest in mentioning so I would guess although it is popular in the OSR it has a tiny audience overall.
Quote from: AsenRG;964807Well, I'd say Spellbound Kingdoms. It's a setting where magic actually can go wild on you, because it responds to strong emotions, like in most stories, and sometimes that leads to magical catastrophes.
But for some reason, I barely hear about it, despite the fact that it also has one of the coolest combat systems out there!
Yeah, I came in to the thread to say Spellbound Kingdoms. Integrated use for organizations in play, good skill system, good support for swashbuckling. And the combat system has to be one of the most original innovations in rpgs since the start, while still being functional and fun to play.
And no one knows a thing about it. :/
There's supposed to be a supplement forthcoming; I hope that draws some new interest.
Quote from: Greentongue;967033"The Bushido system is dice-based, most important rolls being made with a twenty-sided (d20) die."
In Bushido, all your skills were from 1-100 but rolled on a d20. A skill of 60 would roll 12 or less. Combat wasn't that far from D&D, you'd roll your skill - enemy AC. So a skill of 60 versus someone with an AC of 4 would roll 8 or less (12-4). Damage was typical D&D scale with PCs and named NPCs having 20 or so hit points. It was pretty close to starting D&D at 3rd or 4th level.
QuoteI think the thing that caused resistance to playing was:
"Each character is randomly assigned at birth to a class in the strict feudal hierarchy of Nippon"
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This is sad because it was fairly easy to work your way up in social status in Bushido. Just because you were born a commoner didn't mean you'd spend the whole campaign as one.
Pfft! That's easy: Talislanta.
Talislanta is immortal. You can't kill it. Five Editions +1 Alternative Edition, most people have never heard of it, but maintains an insane cult-like following. Still unique, still awesome. Most people dismiss it without ever having played it. It's always been the red-headed step-child of the RPG world... but it remains a secret genius.
Quote from: jeff37923;966037Cyberpunk 2020, Mekton II, Mekton Zeta, Dream Park - a lot by R Talsorian Games
I wouldn't say any of these are unpopular. Old, sure. But not unpopular. I don't know a lot of people that actively dismiss any of these games by R.Talsorian.
Quote from: jeff37923;966037Traveller when it is not married to the OTU. Traveller was originally a generic science fiction RPG system that could be applied to a lot of literary science fiction. The OTU, however, has overshadowed this by being one of the most detailed and massive settings ever created which has been growing for over 40 years. Many believe that the OTU setting is Traveller. It has only been with MgT1e and Cepheus Engine have things gone back to its origin of being a generic science fiction RPG and non-OTU settings being developed.
Traveller is *insanely* popular (and I don't even play it). Sure you're gonna have haters of a particular edition, but overall, I wouldn't classify Traveller as unpopular.
Quote from: tenbones;967166Traveller is *insanely* popular (and I don't even play it). Sure you're gonna have haters of a particular edition, but overall, I wouldn't classify Traveller as unpopular.
When it is not married to the OTU. A lot of the love for Traveller is more of a love for the OTU and the Third Imperium from my experience. Other settings for Traveller do not get nearly as much love, although that is changing.
Quote from: jeff37923;967169When it is not married to the OTU. A lot of the love for Traveller is more of a love for the OTU and the Third Imperium from my experience. Other settings for Traveller do not get nearly as much love, although that is changing.
I haven't gotten a game of Traveller together in decades, so I am close to a novice here. I thought the two general modes of play were 1)3rd Emperium, or 2)homebrew. Is there other settings out there that multiple people use?
Quote from: Willie the Duck;967178I haven't gotten a game of Traveller together in decades, so I am close to a novice here. I thought the two general modes of play were 1)3rd Emperium, or 2)homebrew. Is there other settings out there that multiple people use?
Yes!
Go to DriveThru RPG and look for Cepheus Engine under Traveller, there are several out now. Of note for originality are Orbital 2100, Clement Sector, Mindjammer, and These Stars Are Ours.
By directive of Marc Miller, Cepheus Engine even has its own spot on Citizens of the Imperium forum (http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/forumdisplay.php?f=152). Traveller Big Tent FTW!