Quote from: SHARK on May 27, 2021, 07:26:44 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on May 27, 2021, 07:22:13 PM

Quote from: Chris24601 on May 27, 2021, 06:13:15 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on May 27, 2021, 05:06:23 PM
I don't quite understand, I banned The Thing, didn't I? How the hell is he posting? Or is this a different one?
In any case, banned again.

No, You banned "This Guy" (or That Guy maybe) for being the sock of Matt whatsisface, but "The Thing" was the recognized sock puppet (same posting style as Matt, appeared right after ban). "This/That Guy" was equally Leftist, but I don't think he was a sock of Matt, just a fellow traveler... though one who was marginally more on topic.

Whether that deserves a second look or not is above my pay grade.

Oh right.

This guy was Matt too. He actually sent me an email from the address he had for This Guy, saying "You win this round, pundit".

Greetings!

Pundit, excellent. This Guy was a total jackass, continuously violated the rules, and added nothing positive at all to the board here, or virtually any discussion he dropped into. He was corrosive poison, non-stop. This Guy, The Thing, and UndyingDM are all fruit from the same tree.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

They were all literally the same dude.

Quote from: RPGPundit on May 27, 2021, 07:22:13 PM

Quote from: Chris24601 on May 27, 2021, 06:13:15 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on May 27, 2021, 05:06:23 PM
I don't quite understand, I banned The Thing, didn't I? How the hell is he posting? Or is this a different one?
In any case, banned again.

No, You banned "This Guy" (or That Guy maybe) for being the sock of Matt whatsisface, but "The Thing" was the recognized sock puppet (same posting style as Matt, appeared right after ban). "This/That Guy" was equally Leftist, but I don't think he was a sock of Matt, just a fellow traveler... though one who was marginally more on topic.

Whether that deserves a second look or not is above my pay grade.

Oh right.

This guy was Matt too. He actually sent me an email from the address he had for This Guy, saying "You win this round, pundit".

Maybe the guy should take up a hobby for all that free time he has. I hear RPGs are pretty fun.

Quote from: Ratman_tf on May 27, 2021, 07:33:09 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on May 27, 2021, 07:22:13 PM

Quote from: Chris24601 on May 27, 2021, 06:13:15 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on May 27, 2021, 05:06:23 PM
I don't quite understand, I banned The Thing, didn't I? How the hell is he posting? Or is this a different one?
In any case, banned again.

No, You banned "This Guy" (or That Guy maybe) for being the sock of Matt whatsisface, but "The Thing" was the recognized sock puppet (same posting style as Matt, appeared right after ban). "This/That Guy" was equally Leftist, but I don't think he was a sock of Matt, just a fellow traveler... though one who was marginally more on topic.

Whether that deserves a second look or not is above my pay grade.

Oh right.

This guy was Matt too. He actually sent me an email from the address he had for This Guy, saying "You win this round, pundit".

Maybe the guy should take up a hobby for all that free time he has. I hear RPGs are pretty fun.

Back to spreading your alternative facts, eh? 

Quote from: Ratman_tf on May 27, 2021, 07:33:09 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on May 27, 2021, 07:22:13 PM

Quote from: Chris24601 on May 27, 2021, 06:13:15 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on May 27, 2021, 05:06:23 PM
I don't quite understand, I banned The Thing, didn't I? How the hell is he posting? Or is this a different one?
In any case, banned again.

No, You banned "This Guy" (or That Guy maybe) for being the sock of Matt whatsisface, but "The Thing" was the recognized sock puppet (same posting style as Matt, appeared right after ban). "This/That Guy" was equally Leftist, but I don't think he was a sock of Matt, just a fellow traveler... though one who was marginally more on topic.

Whether that deserves a second look or not is above my pay grade.

Oh right.

This guy was Matt too. He actually sent me an email from the address he had for This Guy, saying "You win this round, pundit".

Maybe the guy should take up a hobby for all that free time he has. I hear RPGs are pretty fun.

You win the thread. I laughed.

Quote from: RPGPundit on May 27, 2021, 07:22:13 PM
Oh right.

This guy was Matt too. He actually sent me an email from the address he had for This Guy, saying "You win this round, pundit".

Pfft, ha. What does he think is he? A Bond villain?

Quote from: Ratman_tf on May 27, 2021, 07:33:09 PM

Maybe the guy should take up a hobby for all that free time he has. I hear RPGs are pretty fun.

Those take effort, though. Not that guy's style I don't think.

Quote from: RPGPundit on May 27, 2021, 07:22:13 PM

Quote from: Chris24601 on May 27, 2021, 06:13:15 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on May 27, 2021, 05:06:23 PM
I don't quite understand, I banned The Thing, didn't I? How the hell is he posting? Or is this a different one?
In any case, banned again.

No, You banned "This Guy" (or That Guy maybe) for being the sock of Matt whatsisface, but "The Thing" was the recognized sock puppet (same posting style as Matt, appeared right after ban). "This/That Guy" was equally Leftist, but I don't think he was a sock of Matt, just a fellow traveler... though one who was marginally more on topic.

Whether that deserves a second look or not is above my pay grade.

Oh right.

This guy was Matt too. He actually sent me an email from the address he had for This Guy, saying "You win this round, pundit".

Makes sense in retrospect; who wears just one sock?

Quote from: Ratman_tf on May 27, 2021, 07:33:09 PM
Maybe the guy should take up a hobby for all that free time he has. I hear RPGs are pretty fun.

And THAT should pretty much be the thread.

Because what's ruining 5e D&D is nothing more or less than the people in charge and the loud minority egging them on not caring that D&D is a game meant for entertainment and instead just treating it as a vehicle for their virtue signaling and hammer against those who question their "virtues."

Quote from: RPGPundit on May 27, 2021, 07:29:03 PM

Quote from: SHARK on May 27, 2021, 07:26:44 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on May 27, 2021, 07:22:13 PM

Quote from: Chris24601 on May 27, 2021, 06:13:15 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on May 27, 2021, 05:06:23 PM
I don't quite understand, I banned The Thing, didn't I? How the hell is he posting? Or is this a different one?
In any case, banned again.

No, You banned "This Guy" (or That Guy maybe) for being the sock of Matt whatsisface, but "The Thing" was the recognized sock puppet (same posting style as Matt, appeared right after ban). "This/That Guy" was equally Leftist, but I don't think he was a sock of Matt, just a fellow traveler... though one who was marginally more on topic.

Whether that deserves a second look or not is above my pay grade.

Oh right.

This guy was Matt too. He actually sent me an email from the address he had for This Guy, saying "You win this round, pundit".

Greetings!

Pundit, excellent. This Guy was a total jackass, continuously violated the rules, and added nothing positive at all to the board here, or virtually any discussion he dropped into. He was corrosive poison, non-stop. This Guy, The Thing, and UndyingDM are all fruit from the same tree.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

They were all literally the same dude.

Greetings!

Ahh, yes. Of course. I think many of us suspected that to be the case.

By the way, Pundit, as last I saw, UNDYINGDM does not have *BANNED* on his tag. Perhaps you overlooked that.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: Shrieking Banshee on May 27, 2021, 11:38:14 AM

Quote from: horsesoldier on May 27, 2021, 10:45:19 AMHuzzah. I yearn for a world where instead of The Avengers we have The Iliad.

Now to be clear from my end: The world has always been stupid, and 'intellectual' things will never have mass appeal.
Before movies, people went to see slapstick. Which is theatre about people getting hit with sticks.
But people were not watching slapstick and saying it was high theatre or literature. There is a place (and I would say a necessity) for both.

And in general, kids would not identify as hector because imagining yourself as a magical police officer is more relatable in the current world than being a military leader of a city-state.

Well, kids at one time did identify with Hector, but as you said we have the fast food equivalent of mass media now. Doesn't have to be the Iliad, it could be El Cid or Hercules or King Arthur. We're replacing our legends and cultural heritage with capeshit.

Quote from: horsesoldier on May 28, 2021, 09:05:11 AMWell, kids at one time did identify with Hector, but as you said we have the fast food equivalent of mass media now.

I would argue that the ones that did were always a minority of the population. I dislike the mass capeshit we have now, but I don't like pretending the past was something else.

Quote from: jhkim on May 27, 2021, 07:19:25 PM

Quote from: horsesoldier on May 27, 2021, 10:45:19 AM
I yearn for a world where instead of The Avengers we have The Iliad. Not because I want to get excited for the product so I can consume it, but so that the Western canon reaches as mass an audience as possible. How many young people can identify Captain America and not Hector? The Hulk but not Ajax? Instead we have crass garbage, made for a global audience, devoid of meaning beyond "don't be mean" or "it's good when friends work together to solve a problem." Children movies used to be a means to transmit culture; those days are over.

(emphasis mine)

Quote from: Ratman_tf on May 27, 2021, 05:38:04 PM
Yep. I can't stand the attitude that everything has to be ancient and "highbrow" or whatever. I liked the MCU movies until they ran them into the ground. I like lots of different stuff. Can't say I've reat The Iliad though.

I've read the Iliad, but I'm more with Ratman_tf than with horsesoldier here. I'm curious what he thinks were good children's movies that transmitted culture. I raised my son to enjoy watching both old media and new media - so he grew up watching a lot of older children's movies. His favorite for a long time was That Darn Cat (1965).

I don't think older movies transmitted culture any more or less than current movies. They were produced to crassly make money, just like the current movies, and they're also works of art. It's not Homer or Shakespeare - but it's as good as the average historical works, like medieval morality plays or slapstick and such.

I'm like at least some private and public arts funding, but there's nothing wrong with commercial art either. Shakespeare was commercial art, made to make money from a broad audience.

As I said, D&D has always been commercial - and been corporate since 1980 at least - and there's nothing wrong with that IMO.

Pinocchio, Sleeping Beauty, Snow White and the Seven Dwarves. Various iterations of Hansel and Gretel (these I recall in shorter form, cartoon productions). Same with the Three Little Pigs and Little Red Riding Hood. These stories would have been familiar to various common folk across Europe for centuries. As pundit pointed out and I neglected to make clear, I wasn't referring to culture as in what fork to use when I'm eating crab or the order in which a Wagner opera is played, but common culture.

Quote from: Ratman_tf on May 27, 2021, 05:38:04 PM

Quote from: Shrieking Banshee on May 27, 2021, 11:38:14 AM

Quote from: horsesoldier on May 27, 2021, 10:45:19 AMHuzzah. I yearn for a world where instead of The Avengers we have The Iliad.

Now to be clear from my end: The world has always been stupid, and 'intellectual' things will never have mass appeal.
Before movies, people went to see slapstick. Which is theatre about people getting hit with sticks.
But people were not watching slapstick and saying it was high theatre or literature. There is a place (and I would say a necessity) for both.

And in general, kids would not identify as hector because imagining yourself as a magical police officer is more relatable in the current world than being a military leader of a city-state.

Yep. I can't stand the attitude that everything has to be ancient and "highbrow" or whatever. I liked the MCU movies until they ran them into the ground. I like lots of different stuff. Can't say I've reat The Iliad though.

Just because it's old doesn't make it better, but I will take ancient stories that are part of our culture over crap made for a global audience. Even the early Marvel movies are markedly different than the more recent ones; Disney discovered that China money, just like WWE and the NBA has. As a parent should I rely on Disney to transmit culture? No. But parents used to be able to use mass media as a way to help supplement. Showtime used to have Faerie Tale Theatre, and it showed European folk tales (amongst others). You'd never see that now.

Quote from: Shrieking Banshee on May 28, 2021, 09:16:01 AM

Quote from: horsesoldier on May 28, 2021, 09:05:11 AMWell, kids at one time did identify with Hector, but as you said we have the fast food equivalent of mass media now.

I would argue that the ones that did were always a minority of the population. I dislike the mass capeshit we have now, but I don't like pretending the past was something else.

Sure, they identified with local legends or fables that have been lost to the mists of time. Perhaps I should have said Hercules, Hercules was indeed the equivalent of a caped hero in the Greek world.

Little boys are going to pretend to be someone when they're stick fighting and they've been doing that since the opposable thumb.

Quote from: horsesoldier on May 28, 2021, 09:26:11 AMSure, they identified with local legends or fables that have been lost to the mists of time. Perhaps I should have said Hercules, Hercules was indeed the equivalent of a caped hero in the Greek world.

Id argue that's not really the case or (in my opinion) the problem.
80 years ago they might have been interested in Flash Gordon, or The Shadow, The Lone Ranger, or Conan the Barbarian.
In my opinion, the problem is that George Lucas adapted the action serials he liked as a kid into Star Wars. Taking inspiration, but not just a direct rip on the stories of his youth.

Nowadays, people have a DEPENDENCE on Star Wars. They talk about it as if it's a holy scripture being profaned. Instead of taking inspiration for their own stories, their imagination ENDS at these stories.

That is my problem.

Quote from: horsesoldier on May 28, 2021, 09:22:09 AM

Quote from: jhkim on May 27, 2021, 07:19:25 PM
I've read the Iliad, but I'm more with Ratman_tf than with horsesoldier here. I'm curious what he thinks were good children's movies that transmitted culture. I raised my son to enjoy watching both old media and new media - so he grew up watching a lot of older children's movies. His favorite for a long time was That Darn Cat (1965).

Pinocchio, Sleeping Beauty, Snow White and the Seven Dwarves. Various iterations of Hansel and Gretel (these I recall in shorter form, cartoon productions). Same with the Three Little Pigs and Little Red Riding Hood. These stories would have been familiar to various common folk across Europe for centuries. As pundit pointed out and I neglected to make clear, I wasn't referring to culture as in what fork to use when I'm eating crab or the order in which a Wagner opera is played, but common culture.

OK, I think I see what you are intending here. But it seems to me that children's movies from centuries-old stories were *always* the rare exception, never the norm. Incidentally, Pinocchio is from an 1883 novel, not a centuries-old folk tale. It's like Alice in Wonderland or Winnie the Pooh. Looking at Disney's movies based on centuries-old European stories, I see:

1937: Snow White
1950: Cinderella
1959: Sleeping Beauty
1963: The Sword in the Stone
1973: Robin Hood
1989: The Little Mermaid
1991: Beauty and the Beast
1997: Hercules
2010: Tangled
2013: Frozen

That's barely more than one a decade. I'll buy that the first three are slightly more direct adaptations of the fairy tales than the later ones, but all of them are very loose and in any case, the vast majority of old children's movies were *not* centuries-old stories, but more often things like Bambi, Dumbo, or That Darn Cat. And that's fine. Most entertainment in any age wasn't centuries-old stories, but new stories informed by the older ones as well as the current times. It seems to me that new stories like Pinnochio, Alice in Wonderland, Peter Pan, Winnie the Pooh, The Jungle Book, and so forth are just as much common culture as Grimm's fairy tales.

Quote from: horsesoldier on May 28, 2021, 09:22:09 AM
Just because it's old doesn't make it better, but I will take ancient stories that are part of our culture over crap made for a global audience. Even the early Marvel movies are markedly different than the more recent ones; Disney discovered that China money, just like WWE and the NBA has. As a parent should I rely on Disney to transmit culture? No. But parents used to be able to use mass media as a way to help supplement. Showtime used to have Faerie Tale Theatre, and it showed European folk tales (amongst others). You'd never see that now.

I think that technology and globalization makes it a lot easier for parents now compared to parents a half century ago. There's much easier access to both old and new American movies, but also from other countries. If you're European-American and want to connect to old European culture, you can access movies and shows from Europe more easily than ever.

Speaking as a Korean-American, even in the early 2000s, I had to struggle to find this sort of material for my son to help connect him to Korean roots - whereas it was much easier for his European side. He never watched old Disney movies, but he was a voracious reader and the Green Fairy Tale book was one of his favorites.

Quote from: horsesoldier on May 28, 2021, 09:22:09 AM


Pinocchio, Sleeping Beauty, Snow White and the Seven Dwarves. Various iterations of Hansel and Gretel (these I recall in shorter form, cartoon productions). Same with the Three Little Pigs and Little Red Riding Hood. These stories would have been familiar to various common folk across Europe for centuries. As pundit pointed out and I neglected to make clear, I wasn't referring to culture as in what fork to use when I'm eating crab or the order in which a Wagner opera is played, but common culture.

A slight correction on a common misconception: Pinocchio was an 1883 children's novel, not directly based on any folk story. The writer, Collodi, was somewhat an expert on myth and symbolism, however.

Quote from: jhkim on May 28, 2021, 12:28:10 PM
OK, I think I see what you are intending here. But it seems to me that children's movies from centuries-old stories were *always* the rare exception, never the norm. Incidentally, Pinocchio is from an 1883 novel, not a centuries-old folk tale. It's like Alice in Wonderland or Winnie the Pooh. Looking at Disney's movies based on centuries-old European stories, I see:

1937: Snow White
1950: Cinderella
1959: Sleeping Beauty
1963: The Sword in the Stone
1973: Robin Hood
1989: The Little Mermaid
1991: Beauty and the Beast
1997: Hercules
2010: Tangled
2013: Frozen

That's barely more than one a decade. I'll buy that the first three are slightly more direct adaptations of the fairy tales than the later ones, but all of them are very loose and in any case, the vast majority of old children's movies were *not* centuries-old stories, but more often things like Bambi, Dumbo, or That Darn Cat. And that's fine. Most entertainment in any age wasn't centuries-old stories, but new stories informed by the older ones as well as the current times. It seems to me that new stories like Pinnochio, Alice in Wonderland, Peter Pan, Winnie the Pooh, The Jungle Book, and so forth are just as much common culture as Grimm's fairy tales.

Theres more than that if you include live action and any shorts.
Scarecrow of Romny Marsh, Paul Bunyan, Pecos Bill, and a few others have likely forgotten.

More apt is Disney himself loved to adapt stuff to screen. BUT. He also loved to change things small or very large. His range of interests in legends and literature was broad indeed. If you glance at his film history you see quite a few are adaptions of some book or legend. Mostly books current or not so current at the time.