Quote from: horsesoldier on May 27, 2021, 10:45:19 AMHuzzah. I yearn for a world where instead of The Avengers we have The Iliad.

Now to be clear from my end: The world has always been stupid, and 'intellectual' things will never have mass appeal.
Before movies, people went to see slapstick. Which is theatre about people getting hit with sticks.
But people were not watching slapstick and saying it was high theatre or literature. There is a place (and I would say a necessity) for both.

And in general, kids would not identify as hector because imagining yourself as a magical police officer is more relatable in the current world than being a military leader of a city-state.

Quote from: Krugus on May 26, 2021, 06:42:17 PM
I know Paizo also isn't a fan fav around here but they at least put out good rule books with meat inside (unlike WOTC).   Pathfinder 2e came out in 2019 since then its had a total of 3 rule books and 3 Bestiary's as well as 6 Campaign books and countless adventures released.   They are releasing 3 or 4 more books this year.   2 are rulebooks, one is an equipment book and the last is going to be some named monsters in their setting.   

I did buy a set of 5e books for my son about 3 years ago who still plays D&D with his friends online.   While he has fun with his friends he does enjoy PF2e more because it has more crunch than 5e.

The crunch I liked in 1st Edition, but as soon as it became obvious what kind of company Paizo was, dropped them into the trash like moldy pizza.

Makes you wonder what would've happened if instead of the Satanic Panic, Christians of the '80s and '90s worked their way into the industry and helped shape it.

Quote from: Omega on May 27, 2021, 12:33:11 AM
What is ruining D&D and pretty much everything else?

The current iteration of Moral Guardians and fake Feminists. That is it. That is all.

If they were not infesting everything and spreading their cult far and wide the businesses would not be doing half the stupid things they are now. Though with WOTC that would still be pretty bad most likely because with WOTC failure is the only option. Publishers dumbing down games has been a thing since well before D&D. Its just become another marketing mantra now that "players are too stupid to understand complex concepts."

This is just more of the same problems we faced vs the 70s and 90s iterations of this. Just magnified to monsterous proportions this time with the help, again, of marketing who are pushing woke agenda relentlessly along with the other neo-religious mantras marketing worship.

You contards will fucking blame anyone but the people with the real wealth and power. Absolutely anyone.
 
Reagan (May he rot in hell) blamed all america's ecopnomic woes on the most powerless people in america and made them sound powerful and dangerous by calling them "welfare queens". While the bastard gutted regulations and let corporations run wild, beginning the end of the middle class, he blamed people with no power at all. In reagan's already alzheimers addled brain "With great power comes no responsibility." was the rule. The poor and powerless were to blame fior all societies ills.

If 'fake feminists" are so fucking powerful why can't they fill congress with pro feminist members?

Blame welfare queens, blame illegal aliens, blame feminists, blame SJWs, anyone but the rich and powerful.

You contards are incredibly stupid.

It's not SJWs per se that are ruining 5e.  But they are in the same way that they are ruining DC and Marvel.  And that is the fact that SJWs have no skill or professionalism and as a result what they produce is lack luster at best and outright garbage at worst.  There's no shining bright spot in recent products that give me renewed faith in their ability to create adequate products.

I don't quite understand, I banned The Thing, didn't I? How the hell is he posting? Or is this a different one?
In any case, banned again.

Quote from: Shrieking Banshee on May 27, 2021, 11:38:14 AM

Quote from: horsesoldier on May 27, 2021, 10:45:19 AMHuzzah. I yearn for a world where instead of The Avengers we have The Iliad.

Now to be clear from my end: The world has always been stupid, and 'intellectual' things will never have mass appeal.
Before movies, people went to see slapstick. Which is theatre about people getting hit with sticks.
But people were not watching slapstick and saying it was high theatre or literature. There is a place (and I would say a necessity) for both.

And in general, kids would not identify as hector because imagining yourself as a magical police officer is more relatable in the current world than being a military leader of a city-state.

Yep. I can't stand the attitude that everything has to be ancient and "highbrow" or whatever. I liked the MCU movies until they ran them into the ground. I like lots of different stuff. Can't say I've reat The Iliad though.

Quote from: Ratman_tf on May 27, 2021, 05:38:04 PM
Can't say I've reat The Iliad though.

It's definitely worth reading. Great inspiration for fantasy. You'll probably be familiar with some of the material just by osmosis, but the details and how it plays out will probably be different from what you'd expect.

Quote from: RPGPundit on May 27, 2021, 05:06:23 PM
I don't quite understand, I banned The Thing, didn't I? How the hell is he posting? Or is this a different one?
In any case, banned again.

No, You banned "This Guy" (or That Guy maybe) for being the sock of Matt whatsisface, but "The Thing" was the recognized sock puppet (same posting style as Matt, appeared right after ban). "This/That Guy" was equally Leftist, but I don't think he was a sock of Matt, just a fellow traveler... though one who was marginally more on topic.

Whether that deserves a second look or not is above my pay grade.

Quote from: Ratman_tf on May 27, 2021, 05:38:04 PM
Yep. I can't stand the attitude that everything has to be ancient and "highbrow" or whatever. I liked the MCU movies until they ran them into the ground. I like lots of different stuff. Can't say I've reat The Iliad though.

The old stuff wasn't deliberately highbrow anyway. The Iliad is more than WWE wrestling, but you can see that they both speak to the same core masculinity.

Quote from: Chris24601 on May 27, 2021, 06:13:15 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on May 27, 2021, 05:06:23 PM
I don't quite understand, I banned The Thing, didn't I? How the hell is he posting? Or is this a different one?
In any case, banned again.

No, You banned "This Guy" (or That Guy maybe) for being the sock of Matt whatsisface, but "The Thing" was the recognized sock puppet (same posting style as Matt, appeared right after ban). "This/That Guy" was equally Leftist, but I don't think he was a sock of Matt, just a fellow traveler... though one who was marginally more on topic.

Whether that deserves a second look or not is above my pay grade.

Something's weird about This Guy.  He used to make intelligent posts with capitalization and punctuation, but the last couple of days were one-liners in all lowercase without punctuation in which he was just insulting the people he was replying to, basically exactly like Matt.  I dunno if he was just drunk, if his account got compromised and someone else was writing that, or if he was actually Matt all along playing some weird long con with an account that he could refrain from ranting at people like a crazy person, but something isn't adding up.

Quote from: Valatar on May 27, 2021, 06:45:21 PM

Quote from: Chris24601 on May 27, 2021, 06:13:15 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on May 27, 2021, 05:06:23 PM
I don't quite understand, I banned The Thing, didn't I? How the hell is he posting? Or is this a different one?
In any case, banned again.

No, You banned "This Guy" (or That Guy maybe) for being the sock of Matt whatsisface, but "The Thing" was the recognized sock puppet (same posting style as Matt, appeared right after ban). "This/That Guy" was equally Leftist, but I don't think he was a sock of Matt, just a fellow traveler... though one who was marginally more on topic.

Whether that deserves a second look or not is above my pay grade.

Something's weird about This Guy.  He used to make intelligent posts with capitalization and punctuation, but the last couple of days were one-liners in all lowercase without punctuation in which he was just insulting the people he was replying to, basically exactly like Matt.  I dunno if he was just drunk, if his account got compromised and someone else was writing that, or if he was actually Matt all along playing some weird long con with an account that he could refrain from ranting at people like a crazy person, but something isn't adding up.

My suspicion is that we've got a few members who got pissy over whatever and started up a few sockpuppet accounts to get around ignore lists and bannings.
Can't be sure, of course, but I've viewed all the latest new members as likely sockpuppets. Especially if they come pre-loaded with opinions about topics in progress or bannings and ignore lists.

Quote from: horsesoldier on May 27, 2021, 10:45:19 AM
I yearn for a world where instead of The Avengers we have The Iliad. Not because I want to get excited for the product so I can consume it, but so that the Western canon reaches as mass an audience as possible. How many young people can identify Captain America and not Hector? The Hulk but not Ajax? Instead we have crass garbage, made for a global audience, devoid of meaning beyond "don't be mean" or "it's good when friends work together to solve a problem." Children movies used to be a means to transmit culture; those days are over.

(emphasis mine)

Quote from: Ratman_tf on May 27, 2021, 05:38:04 PM
Yep. I can't stand the attitude that everything has to be ancient and "highbrow" or whatever. I liked the MCU movies until they ran them into the ground. I like lots of different stuff. Can't say I've reat The Iliad though.

I've read the Iliad, but I'm more with Ratman_tf than with horsesoldier here. I'm curious what he thinks were good children's movies that transmitted culture. I raised my son to enjoy watching both old media and new media - so he grew up watching a lot of older children's movies. His favorite for a long time was That Darn Cat (1965).

I don't think older movies transmitted culture any more or less than current movies. They were produced to crassly make money, just like the current movies, and they're also works of art. It's not Homer or Shakespeare - but it's as good as the average historical works, like medieval morality plays or slapstick and such.

I'm like at least some private and public arts funding, but there's nothing wrong with commercial art either. Shakespeare was commercial art, made to make money from a broad audience.

As I said, D&D has always been commercial - and been corporate since 1980 at least - and there's nothing wrong with that IMO.

Quote from: Chris24601 on May 27, 2021, 06:13:15 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on May 27, 2021, 05:06:23 PM
I don't quite understand, I banned The Thing, didn't I? How the hell is he posting? Or is this a different one?
In any case, banned again.

No, You banned "This Guy" (or That Guy maybe) for being the sock of Matt whatsisface, but "The Thing" was the recognized sock puppet (same posting style as Matt, appeared right after ban). "This/That Guy" was equally Leftist, but I don't think he was a sock of Matt, just a fellow traveler... though one who was marginally more on topic.

Whether that deserves a second look or not is above my pay grade.

Oh right.

This guy was Matt too. He actually sent me an email from the address he had for This Guy, saying "You win this round, pundit".

Quote from: RPGPundit on May 27, 2021, 07:22:13 PM

Quote from: Chris24601 on May 27, 2021, 06:13:15 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on May 27, 2021, 05:06:23 PM
I don't quite understand, I banned The Thing, didn't I? How the hell is he posting? Or is this a different one?
In any case, banned again.

No, You banned "This Guy" (or That Guy maybe) for being the sock of Matt whatsisface, but "The Thing" was the recognized sock puppet (same posting style as Matt, appeared right after ban). "This/That Guy" was equally Leftist, but I don't think he was a sock of Matt, just a fellow traveler... though one who was marginally more on topic.

Whether that deserves a second look or not is above my pay grade.

Oh right.

This guy was Matt too. He actually sent me an email from the address he had for This Guy, saying "You win this round, pundit".

Greetings!

Pundit, excellent. This Guy was a total jackass, continuously violated the rules, and added nothing positive at all to the board here, or virtually any discussion he dropped into. He was corrosive poison, non-stop. This Guy, The Thing, and UndyingDM are all fruit from the same tree.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: jhkim on May 27, 2021, 07:19:25 PM

Quote from: horsesoldier on May 27, 2021, 10:45:19 AM
I yearn for a world where instead of The Avengers we have The Iliad. Not because I want to get excited for the product so I can consume it, but so that the Western canon reaches as mass an audience as possible. How many young people can identify Captain America and not Hector? The Hulk but not Ajax? Instead we have crass garbage, made for a global audience, devoid of meaning beyond "don't be mean" or "it's good when friends work together to solve a problem." Children movies used to be a means to transmit culture; those days are over.

(emphasis mine)

Quote from: Ratman_tf on May 27, 2021, 05:38:04 PM
Yep. I can't stand the attitude that everything has to be ancient and "highbrow" or whatever. I liked the MCU movies until they ran them into the ground. I like lots of different stuff. Can't say I've reat The Iliad though.

I've read the Iliad, but I'm more with Ratman_tf than with horsesoldier here. I'm curious what he thinks were good children's movies that transmitted culture. I raised my son to enjoy watching both old media and new media - so he grew up watching a lot of older children's movies. His favorite for a long time was That Darn Cat (1965).

I don't think older movies transmitted culture any more or less than current movies.

I agree. Movies were never very good at transmitting either deep or high culture. But what they did used to do was to transmit the common culture. They were good at teaching people everyday people the basic values of the common society. You learned the basics of how to be a good citizen, and also what society considered a good hero.

Both of those things were eroded from the early 70s onward. To the point that now all Hollywood films are essentially Anti-Western Propaganda meant to teach people to despise their own culture and nation.