For all the arguments with the shared narrative crowd on this site and other sites, I feel there is a larger issue which has been mostly overlooked in these discussions.
Simply put, the name of the hobby has been completely co-opted already. Try searching for roleplaying games on Google and you get the usual VCR manual wikipedia page, then result after result of computer roleplaying games. This isn't even something that can be argued about, 99% of the time when someone is talking about roleplaying games these days, they're referring to WoW or something similar.
There's no easy discovery point for people unless they've heard of the hobby beforehand. As regards marketing the hobby, forget about it. It's not possible to step out of the shadow of the CRPG industry while keeping a similar name, it is simply too massive. Actual RPGs are effectively locked out of huge markets purely due to brand confusion. A rose may be a rose but good luck finding it in a field of tomatoes. Its no wonder there is a wide perception that the hobby is in decline, its an uphill struggle to get the word out with this kind of eclipsing signal to noise ratio.
And yet it is a very different experience to simming with shared narrative games or computer games. It is in fact a unique experience, I don't think there's a single other pastime which can provide the same or even similar.
So what I'm talking about is adopting a new name for the hobby, something to differentiate it from co-opted versions. Same contents, different tin.
The marketing departments of all interested companies could then beat the hell out of their drums proclaiming this "new" experience, really brand it in a way that differentiates it from computer games, board games like monopoly, or any other sort of game. Because it is very different.
The shared narrative crowd have already cottoned on to this issue, by adopting the name 'storygames'. Its a great name, random Joe Websurfer comes across it and thinks, "hey I like stories, and I like games, let's check this out". And when you search on Google for storygames, guess who comes up first? There's almost no competition for the term. One of the highest results on the search is a praiseful blog entry complete with a sunny quote from Vince "throatfuck the cabinboy" Baker, underlining the depth of PR covering the nastiness beneath.
So, what do people think. Does this make sense, and if so what name would best suit the magical, visceral experience that RPGs create?
I think it is a good idea, sadly.
Sadly in the definition of the semi-childish "but we were here first!" sort of way.
Anyway, what to suggest as replacment name?
In general terms, it is already referred to as "Tabletop - rpg": TTRpg ....
It may work, if we're just ready to bit the bullet and embrace the "backwater-place", as if we came from the (c)rpgs, and not the other way around.
Or perhaps Table-rpg. Trpg
But, if you want a fairly new name ...
RoleGame?
Playable Role Game (PRG, this might confuse several ... )
Social Action Game
Interactive Action Game.
Role Action Game.
.....
or Table Action RolePlay (TARP)
When I'm trying to describe RPGs to a newbie, I call them Tabletop Roleplaying games.
Most non-roleplayers see RPGs as CRPGs
I wish you good luck with your initiative, but I don't consider it realistic.
Good luck on getting any agreement there. Three roleplaying gamers, four opinions...
-clash
"Science fiction is [or means] what we point to when we say it."
Damon Knight (1952)
"Science fiction is anything published as science fiction."
Norman Spinrad (1974)
(That would also be a fitting reply to our Storygame/OSR thread (http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?t=25249).)
I think it is a bit late to change the name of the hobby. It is frustrating that anytime you google for rpg material most of what you get is video games, and there was even a recent op ed piece in a newspaper where a musinderstanding between our rpgs and rpg video games led to a call to prohibit an rpg convention from a city. If we did want to change the name, the only other term that might have some meaning to people is D&D since it is somewhat synonymous with role playing for a lot of people (unfortunately it is a brand name so using it has all kinds of issues). Usually I just say tabletop rpgs to avoid confusion (or pen and paper rpgs).
i refer to them as "pen & paper rpgs" too. any quizzical responses at that are cleared up with, "like d&d/dungeons & dragons." the ol' dinosaur still has plenty of name-clout with the rest of the public, IME.
In Japan, our particular brand of RPGs are indeed called Tabletop RPGs (TRPGs), to differentiate them from CRPGs. It's not too different from the original industry term, makes a nice acronym, and is easy to remember. Also, Storygame is the brand term for Storygame RPGS, and should be pleasing to those who wish to differentiate them from traditional RPGs that they have their own stand out term.
Okay, rather than delving into the practicalities of getting the idea out there at this point, the thread is mostly checking whether or not people see a need for such a change as I described above.
Overall, the response seems to be positive, I would say!
The issue that the there are many more types of roleplaying games. It no longer sufficient term to denote games like Dungeons & Dragons. Tabletop roleplaying is probably the most accurate term in use to describe games like Dungeons & Dragons.
If I had to some up with an alternative I would put Campaign somewhere in it. Because while tabletop RPGs can be used for one-shots the heart of the tabletop experience is in the campaign, aside from the social aspect. A series of interrelated sessions usually involving the same set of characters.
To reflect the social aspect tabletop should be worked in there.
Perhaps Tabletop Campaign Games
Interestingly when I type this in Tabletop Roleplaying Game is at the top of the Google search result (https://www.google.com/search?q=campaign+games&oq=campaign+games&aqs=chrome.0.57l2j60j62j60l2.1756&sugexp=chrome,mod=7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#hl=en&tbo=d&sclient=psy-ab&q=tabletop+campaign+games&oq=tabletop+campaign+games&gs_l=serp.3...4609.5673.0.5890.9.7.0.0.0.1.273.273.2-1.1.0.les%3B..0.0...1c.1.bcHdATsfBE0&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.r_qf.&bvm=bv.1357700187,d.dmQ&fp=70f902665fe3d8c&biw=623&bih=423).
Tabletop, TRPGs/TTRPGs, and occasionally even TG (traditional games) are in currency.
Besides the search engine thing, though, I find comparisons to certain videogames and non-RPG tabletop games useful in recruiting gamers unfamiliar with the genre (at least in or around my age group).
Use the name the hobby had before it was renamed "roleplaying games": Adventure Games.
Quote from: estar;616683The issue that the there are many more types of roleplaying games. It no longer sufficient term to denote games like Dungeons & Dragons. Tabletop roleplaying is probably the most accurate term in use to describe games like Dungeons & Dragons.
I agree with this, referring to RPGs as D&D will get the job done but its not really helping the hobby as a whole. Plus D&D has its own set of baggage too.
Something short, snappy and sexy, like a female Chinese bodyguard with a hangover, is what's needed here, with just a pinch of sass. Storygames is probably the first name I would have picked to be honest.
I like Adventure Games, or Adventure Roleplaying Games. That suits.
-clash
Quote from: flyingmice;616991I like Adventure Games, or Adventure Roleplaying Games. That suits.
I think that one has been co-opted as well a long time ago. From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adventure_game
"An adventure game is a video game in which the player assumes the role of protagonist in an interactive story driven by exploration and puzzle-solving instead of physical challenge."
The two in common usage are "pen & paper RPG" and "tabletop RPG". I prefer the latter.
Shareplay
Groupgames
Shared Adventure Games (SAG, heh)
Adventure games is good and hasn't really appeared in the common parlance. It doesn't matter if someone used a name once, as long as nobody is using it today, or at least not much. TTRPGs is waaay too much of a lumpy bowl of porridge, doesn't so much roll off the tongue as dismount and hobble wheezing under its own weight to the ear. Plus it sounds like a subset of computer rpgs, which the hobby isn't.
Quote from: talysman;616987Use the name the hobby had before it was renamed "roleplaying games": Adventure Games.
Google that one and tell me what happens.
When I think of Adventure Games, I think of Zak McCracken and the Alien Mindbenders.
"Pen and paper" has served me well enough.
Four Roleplaying Gamers, five opinions. :D
-clash
Quote from: flyingmice;617059Four Roleplaying Gamers, five opinions. :D
-clash
We need to some up an entirely new word, like flampth.
So what's your favorite flampth?
Quote from: Kaiu Keiichi;616340In Japan, our particular brand of RPGs are indeed called Tabletop RPGs (TRPGs), to differentiate them from CRPGs. It's not too different from the original industry term, makes a nice acronym, and is easy to remember. Also, Storygame is the brand term for Storygame RPGS, and should be pleasing to those who wish to differentiate them from traditional RPGs that they have their own stand out term.
I've been using the term TRPG for years, ever since being first exposed to it in the very early days of hype over Japanese TRPGs .
It seems like the most concise and clear term I've seen, and I think it funny it apparently took non-English speakers to think of it.
Quote from: J Arcane;617094I've been using the term TRPG for years, ever since being first exposed to it in the very early days of hype over Japanese TRPGs .
It seems like the most concise and clear term I've seen, and I think it funny it apparently took non-English speakers to think of it.
Google TRPG.
Quote from: Piestrio;617096Google TRPG.
That was a recent coining. Its use in Japanese lexicon predates it.
Quote from: J Arcane;617100That was a recent coining. Its use in Japanese lexicon predates it.
And the coining of RPG to describe what we do predates computer RPGs.
Doesn't seem to matter.
D&D seems like common usage amongst people who are vaguely aware of RPGs but not the variety.
When my friends' kids asked me to run 'D&D' for them they had no specific ideas except that it was a fantasy game of 'let's pretend'. I didn't get this at first but then I just told them we were gonna play this flavor of 'D&D' called 'Stormbringer' (which my homebrew is based on) and everything was fine.
Same thing for an older friend of mine who said she'd played 'D&D' back in her youth... but it turns out she was playing Vampire.
So I think coopting the brand name to something more generic might work... the way it did for Kleenex and Jello and Aspirin and Escolator and Heroin and Videotape... etc.
That 'baggage' of Satanic hysteria is, if anything, a bonus.
CRPG players should be an easy to convert demographic.
Quote from: talysman;616987Use the name the hobby had before it was renamed "roleplaying games": Adventure Games.
I like Adventure Games.
Although its been a video game genre, I think we should take the name back.
Quote from: The Traveller;616988Storygames is probably the first name I would have picked to be honest.
Hell yeah.
Quote from: The Traveller;617020Shared Adventure Games (SAG, heh)
You're onto something here because the shared experience aspect instantly distinguishes it from computer adventure games (there are multiplayer MMOs but not really any multiplayer adventure games), but it needs something to incorporate the role of the GM as a game controller who is far more versatile, intuitive, and capable of leaps of logic than a computer could ever be. "Heuristic" actually describes all that nicely so how about Shared Heuristic Adventure Games?
Yeah, that works well! "Me and the guys are going down to the basement for a quick SHAG, care to join us?"
Quote from: flyingmice;617059Four Roleplaying Gamers, five opinions. :D
On the details, yeah, but I don't think there's any dispute about the broad strokes as it were.
Quote from: Warthur;617218You're onto something here because the shared experience aspect instantly distinguishes it from computer adventure games (there are multiplayer MMOs but not really any multiplayer adventure games), but it needs something to incorporate the role of the GM as a game controller who is far more versatile, intuitive, and capable of leaps of logic than a computer could ever be. "Heuristic" actually describes all that nicely so how about Shared Heuristic Adventure Games?
Yeah, that works well! "Me and the guys are going down to the basement for a quick SHAG, care to join us?"
Austin Powers approves this message.
Quote from: Piestrio;617096Google TRPG.
OK, I did so. The first result was the Wikipedia entry for "Tactical RPG" for computer games. However, that wasn't dominant in the remainder of results. The fourth result was "Technical and Regulatory Policy", for example, and the sixth result was this entry:
http://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/TRPG
TRPG Tactical Role-Playing Game (video games)
TRPG Table-Top Role-Playing Game
TRPG Total RPG (Role Playing Game) Magazine
TRPG Thames Regional Perinatal Group (UK)
In the following pages there was a mix, including a lot of Japanese tabletop RPGs. If I google "tabletop RPG", then I immediately get only the type of games we're looking for.
By contrast, if I google "adventure game", I get many pages of results with no mention of traditional non-computer RPGs like D&D.
So basically, "tabletop RPG" works as is - and "TRPG" is unclear but workable. Both "RPG" and "adventure game" are already in widespread, popular use for computer games - and have been for decades.
hello frendz
i m new in forum.i want to know any entertainment in this.
Quote from: Piestrio;617066We need to some up an entirely new word, like flampth.
So what's your favorite flampth?
I could live with flampth! :D
-clash
Quote from: talysman;616987Use the name the hobby had before it was renamed "roleplaying games": Adventure Games.
But that encompassed an even wider field. At least in Germany it (translated as "
Abenteuerspiele") was used for everything from
Warhammer Fantasy Battle (1st edition) to
Talisman to
Battletech to
D&D/Das Schwarze Auge.
The Magazines
ZauberZeit/Nautilus/Kartefakt made extensive use of it and tried to establish it for the wider hobby. Around the year 2000 the
MTG distributor Amigo Spiele started importing US RPGs as well, and used "
Abenteuerspiele" for the whole segment of RPGs, CCGs, Avalon Hill games, and miniatures.
A few years ago Settembrini coined the term "
Abenteuer Rollenspiele" ("
Adventure Roleplaying Games" or rather "
Adventure Role Games") for our (old-school-ish) style of games.
Quote from: The Traveller;617020Shareplay
Groupgames
Shared Adventure Games (SAG, heh)
Those are all horrible names.
RPGPundit
Quote from: Simlasa;617108D&D seems like common usage amongst people who are vaguely aware of RPGs but not the variety.
When my friends' kids asked me to run 'D&D' for them they had no specific ideas except that it was a fantasy game of 'let's pretend'. I didn't get this at first but then I just told them we were gonna play this flavor of 'D&D' called 'Stormbringer' (which my homebrew is based on) and everything was fine.
Same thing for an older friend of mine who said she'd played 'D&D' back in her youth... but it turns out she was playing Vampire.
So I think coopting the brand name to something more generic might work... the way it did for Kleenex and Jello and Aspirin and Escolator and Heroin and Videotape... etc.
That 'baggage' of Satanic hysteria is, if anything, a bonus.
Agreed.
RPGPundit
Quote from: Simlasa;617108That 'baggage' of Satanic hysteria is, if anything, a bonus.
Ian Livingstone likes to tell an anecdote about how once over here in the UK some fundamentalist lady tried to whip up hysteria over
Fighting Fantasy gamebooks by claiming that after her son started playing them he ended up levitating. As in demonic forces were making him hover in the air.
Apparently, sales
soared after that.
Quote from: Warthur;618025Ian Livingstone likes to tell an anecdote about how once over here in the UK some fundamentalist lady tried to whip up hysteria over Fighting Fantasy gamebooks by claiming that after her son started playing them he ended up levitating. As in demonic forces were making him hover in the air.
Apparently, sales soared after that.
Badum-tish! Haha. Seriously though I was referring to the comic book guy baggage. WW games have a much sexier demographic as a rule, and yet they also fall under the heading of roleplaying games.
Quote from: Warthur;618025Ian Livingstone likes to tell an anecdote about how once over here in the UK some fundamentalist lady tried to whip up hysteria over Fighting Fantasy gamebooks by claiming that after her son started playing them he ended up levitating. As in demonic forces were making him hover in the air.
Apparently, sales soared after that.
This. If only we could fucking get this again!
RPGPundit
Quote from: RPGPundit;618444This. If only we could fucking get this again!
RPGPundit
Real easy, turn your magick thread into a game and sock it on some christian fundamentalist forums. I do believe the poster was being ironical though.
Not at all. In general Satan controversies generate far more sales than they lose.
Genuinely Pundit you're sitting on a gold mine with the Magick thread, take that slightly sinister persona to the next level. The day you have the patriot preachers cursing you as a subversive is the day you've made it. Also it would be fun to watch the cognitive dissonance amongst the wiccans over on the big purple.
Legendary games
Fablegames
Campfire games
Mythgames
Dice Adventures
bleh
Quote from: The Traveller;618600Also it would be fun to watch the cognitive dissonance amongst the wiccans over on the big purple.
This alone makes me profoundly tempted...
RPGPundit
Quote from: RPGPundit;619678This alone makes me profoundly tempted...
RPGPundit
Do it! Fuck yes, you know there's a savage appetite for it out there. Hell I'll even sock the xtians for you gratis! Well maybe not, but that's the biggest free marketing machine ever dreamed of right there.
Quote from: The Traveller;619681Do it! Fuck yes, you know there's a savage appetite for it out there. Hell I'll even sock the xtians for you gratis! Well maybe not, but that's the biggest free marketing machine ever dreamed of right there.
Maybe, but I'm not convinced we can get them with something like this. After all, it wasn't really any "real occult" stuff that got them riled up in the first place, it was just nonsense. And they've been harping on about said nonsense for 30 years now... what I mean is, to them, D&D has never stopped being satanic, they just put it on a backburner compared to other shit they care more about like gays adopting kids or teletubbies being gay or the government funding teletubbies.
I don't know if just saying "look! Occult RPG!" would be enough to make them come running.
RPGPundit
I think we just need to pull a Kleenex or Xerox with D&D.
"What are you doing?"
"Playing a D&D game."
"Cool, what kind?"
"Traveller"
That's basically how everyone else already thinks about RPGs (insomuch as they think about it at all).
True, which leaves you in the unsavoury position of trying to appeal to the gothemo crowd.
Mind you, D&D never purported to be based on anything but works of fantasy fiction.
A game which was based to a great extent on 'real' or historical magical practices (and unashamedly promoted itself as such) would be like a ouija board on steroids to these people, the ultimate gateway drug. Similar to Alice Cooper, who makes a good living from hosting diabolical roadshows, although he was never in any way serious about it.
I see potential, and even if the religious right doesn't have a fit of the vapours you've still got what looks like a damn enjoyable game there. People would buy it even if they weren't into gaming, just for the information. An infamous opus!
Obviously the whole affair is a bit cynical but there's no harm in it as long as the book doesn't include any hazardous advice like swallowing lumps of sulphur or something.
Well its your own time, just thinking aloud really.
Quote from: RPGPundit;618444This. If only we could fucking get this again!
RPGPundit
for the love of god no...
I lived through the Satanic Panic era once.. I dont want to have to go through that again...
Quote from: YourSwordisMine;620020for the love of god no...
I lived through the Satanic Panic era once.. I dont want to have to go through that again...
Wuss.
RPGPundit