Precisely the sort of response those of us with maturity, imagination, and insight have come to expect from you commercially-programmed, ADHD, trans-fat-addled zombies. Next thing you know, you'll be blaming all your problems on us, too.

!i!

Quote from: J ArcaneI'm starting to feel like I walked into a nursing home with this shit.

As someone who's grown up with video games (my parents got a 2600 as a wedding present, and there's been games in my house ever since) and still has more than enough imagination to go around, I'd like to deliver a hearty "Fuck you!" to the jackass geriatric crowd.

That fact that some idiots can't understand new technology says more about their imagination (or lack of it) than it does about anyone else.

I think it's kind of strange that you equate not likeing/wanting video games in the house with not understanding the technology.

there will never be a video game in my house, and I also grew up with them. I don't have any real issues with them, I just don't like the noise and can live without hte expense- and it's more fun to watch the kids build stuff with lego when I'm stoned.
Do you hate people who don't like TV, too?

Quote from: AosI think it's kind of strange that you equate not likeing/wanting video games in the house with not understanding the technology.

there will never be a video game in my house, and I also grew up with them. I don't have any real issues with them, I just don't like the noise and can live without hte expense- and it's more fun to watch the kids build stuff with lego when I'm stoned.
Do you hate people who don't like TV, too?

I'll let Douglas Adams speak for me.

Quotehttp://www.douglasadams.com/dna/19990901-00-a.html

"I suppose earlier generations had to sit through all this huffing and puffing with the invention of television, the phone, cinema, radio, the car, the bicycle, printing, the wheel and so on, but you would think we would learn the way these things work, which is this:

1) everything that’s already in the world when you’re born is just normal;

2) anything that gets invented between then and before you turn thirty is incredibly exciting and creative and with any luck you can make a career out of it;

3) anything that gets invented after you’re thirty is against the natural order of things and the beginning of the end of civilisation as we know it until it’s been around for about ten years when it gradually turns out to be alright really.

Apply this list to movies, rock music, word processors and mobile phones to work out how old you are."

Quote from: AosDo you hate people who don't like TV, too?

I think he just hates.  He's a hater.  Even worse, he's a hater-hater.  And that sucks.

!i!

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaI think he just hates.  He's a hater.  Even worse, he's a hater-hater.  And that sucks.

!i!

Why is it considered less ignorant to dismiss one medium out of hand and not another?

Quote from: J ArcaneWhy is it considered less ignorant to dismiss one medium out of hand and not another?

In my experience, players who come into tabletop gaming from a computer game background tend to exhibit truly stunted social skills and nonsensical responses in-game. I've seen much more self-centered play in which the PC gamer fucks over the rest of the party in order to gain more treasure or xp for his character. I've also seen just bizarre behavior from PC gamers, my favorite example is the halfling thief player who had his character eviserate every creature he killed and then crawl inside the corpse and squirm around for a minute - two sessions of this and we unanimously voted him out of the game group.

Are all PC gamers like this? No, but I've had enough bad experiences at the table to be very wary of new players whose only experience is with PC games.

Quote from: J ArcaneI'm starting to feel like I walked into a nursing home with this shit.

As someone who's grown up with video games (my parents got a 2600 as a wedding present, and there's been games in my house ever since) and still has more than enough imagination to go around, I'd like to deliver a hearty "Fuck you!" to the jackass geriatric crowd.

That fact that some idiots can't understand new technology says more about their imagination (or lack of it) than it does about anyone else.

Ummm... "Fuck you!" right back.

Your parents got a 2600?  So did I, for christmas, I played that shit new out of the box.

I remember when nintendo was new. Sega genesis, super nintendo, Yup. I've played everything up to these newfangled Xboxes and PS 3's.

I even have and use this thing called a computer. (I'm using it right now) And I've been known to play a game or two on it as well. I used to play games on my commodore 64, but it got old. So I use my (now obsolete) P4 powered custom rig now. (It has intel inside)

But you know what? when I was younger video games were not as prevalent with the youngsters as they are now.

I played cops and robbers/cowboys and indians. Played war with my G.I. Joe action figures.  Me and my best friend would even pretend we were spies and go around the neighborhood on secret missions. Hell, I even read books. And played a littled D&D. (OK, a lot of D&D)
Lots of kids my age did shit like this.

I contrast this with how I see some of my younger relatives growing up. Unless it's some type of sport they hardly go outside. (unless they're "hanging out", which I'm hesitant to call a sport)

When they are with thier friends they don't play any make-believe games. They play video games.

Why play cops and robbers when you have GTA at your fingertips? Why play war with action figures when you can have armies smash each other in Warcraft? An RPG? Oh, you means games like Final Fantasy!

And they try not to read too much because they have to do that shit in school, and it's boooooring.

Naturally, all kids are not like this. But in my experience there sure are a hell of a lot that are. And their numbers are growing.

There's just so much more for a kid to plug himself into these days for instant entertainment. They just don't need to use their imaginations that much to entertain themselves. Most of the work is already done for them.


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Quote from: J ArcaneWhy is it considered less ignorant to dismiss one medium out of hand and not another?

See?  See what I mean?  There you go hate-hating again.  Why do you hate my hatred so?

!i!

You think lazy dumb kids with no imagination were invented by video games?

Guess what, I knew kids exactly like that when I was a kid.  Boring unimaginative kids whose greatest amount of imagination seemed to come out when it involved torturing small animals.  

Meanwhile I was writing stories, developing continuity in my LEGO play, hanging on every word in my high school psych class, writing programs in BASIC on my computer, and still finding time for the occasional all night session of FF6 or Uncharted Waters.  And all of my friends were pretty much the same way.

A lot of kids are just lazy, unimaginative little punkasses, just like a lot of adults.  

Not everyone gets to be the brightest tool in the shed.

That doesn't mean a damn thing about videogames, it's just part of human nature.  there were boring unimagitive people thousands of years ago, and there will be boring unimaginative people thousands of years from now.

A couple thousand years ago the elderly elite in Greece were decrying the evils of the theatre.  Again, I point at Doug's quote, and SteveD's quote in my .sig.

Quote from: J ArcaneYou think lazy dumb kids with no imagination were invented by video games?

Did I say that? no.

Yes there were, and always will be, lazy dumbass kids. And their numbers have been growing ever since the invention of the bloody theatre.

But I strongly feel that video games do contribute to a "imaginative laziness".

I just don't see kids in their late elementary/early teens playing "make-believe" like kids used to.

They don't have to, much of those experiences are now gotten by playing a video game with a similar theme.

Guys like you and your friends are exceptions. As is anyone who has bothered to post to this board.

Are video games the sole cause of what I would call an increaseing imaginative laziness amoung our youth? NO.

Are they a contributing factor? Hell YES.


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Whatever.  You can continue to delude yourself all you want, it's not like you're alone in that kind of calcified thinking, though like so many have before me, I still despair that so many people like you are the ones who make the decisions on the upper levels.

QuoteSee? See what I mean? There you go hate-hating again. Why do you hate my hatred so?

Honestly, I feel sort of bad that I actually let myself get pulled into a "kids these days" argument.

Quote from: J ArcaneHonestly, I feel sort of bad that I actually myself get pulled into a "kids these days" argument.

Even Julius Caesar was criticised for his too-trendy wearing of a loose belt with his toga.

By 2027 the loose-belt toga will be back in style.

So it goes.

Quote from: J ArcaneWhatever.  You can continue to delude yourself all you want, it's not like you're alone in that kind of calcified thinking, though like so many have before me, I still despair that so many people like you are the ones who make the decisions on the upper levels.


Honestly, I feel sort of bad that I actually let myself get pulled into a "kids these days" argument.

Indeed.

I remember when I was a teenager everyone assuming we didn't talk anymore due to video games and watching tv, but in fact we just talked about video games and watching tv instead of radio serials or whatever.

Interestingly enough, the exact same people who complained about my playing video games when I was a teenager objected to my reading books as they stopped me going out and playing with friends or whatever.  They didn't.

Times change, technology advances, new hobbies arise, but I don't think rpgs and video games do the same things or provide the same fun so I don't feel that one is terribly likely to replace the other.  Hell, I certainly still enjoy both and my current playing of Jade Empire is not filling the same niche for me as the upcoming Traveller game I'll be playing.

Quote from: J ArcaneHonestly, I feel sort of bad that I actually let myself get pulled into a "kids these days" argument.

I understand, but, frankly, to all appearances, you waded in merrily.

I think it's also worth noting that the arrogance of the older generation walks hand in hand with the arrogance of youth.  Both are rooted in fear.  One fears that they're losing relevance, while the other fears that they are being denied relevance.  In fact, both should simply be worried that the great equaliser is going to make worm-food of us all sooner or later.

By the way, in response to the Douglas Adams quote, I hate the inventions of cell phones, the internal combustion engine, and the abstract concepts of time and money.  How old does that make me?

!i!