Quote from: WarthurHave I had this argument with you elsewhere?

I don't believe so.

QuoteCare to debate this in Off-Topic, Ian?

Not really, though not out of either concession or retreat.  I just lack the personal investment to make any further deal of it...which I suppose is both a concession and a retreat.

The one parting comment I feel I should make on the matter is to suggest that it's more likely that I've misconveyed Tudge's assertion than it is that Tudge himself was mistaken.  Have a look at either (or both!) Neanderthals, Bandits and Farmers or The Time Before History for the straight dope.

!i!

Quote from: Calithena

Quote from: jeff37923I've seen much more self-centered play in which the PC gamer fucks over the rest of the party in order to gain more treasure or xp for his character. I've also seen just bizarre behavior from PC gamers, my favorite example is the halfling thief player who had his character eviserate every creature he killed and then crawl inside the corpse and squirm around for a minute - two sessions of this and we unanimously voted him out of the game group.

QuoteThere were a lot of old school D&D players like this too. And I loves me some old school D&D. Just sayin'.

Including the bizarre behavior of their characters? Not just bizarre because they were young and hadn't played before, but bizarre because they thought it was expected of them.

Oh, I had meant to respond to that; the "eviscerator" you mention sounds very similar to a necromancer I once played...

What?

Quote from: J ArcaneNow, it could be that you're not an ignorant fuck, you're just an utter and complete snob, which is as easy an explanation, but then you go and defeat that notion by informing me of how willingly you're apparently inclined to dismiss every RPG made in the last ten years out of hand in a similar fashion, and so I'm left again with the aforementioned conclusion that you are, in fact, a pig-ignorant son of a bitch.

You are of course completely taking my comments with your own personal bias.  I never said I've dismissed every game published in the last ten years out of hand, and I defy you to quote me saying so.

What I said, was that not a single game has come out in the past few years that made me say 'Whee! I want to run this!'  I have perused, read, digested numerous games which have come out in the past ten years; anything from mainstream (Eden, WW, WotC, whatever) to indie (FUDGE, SOTC, Esoterrorists, whatever).  Many of the games I look at and get a 'meh' feeling about, are ones that my friends love and are quite popular.  They simply do nothing for me.

The truth of the matter, is that in various jobs I've held in the industry over the years, I became very good at reading games quickly, and yes, sometimes skimming them, and determining if they were 'my cup of tea' or not.

I'm not going to defent my personal preferences to you, as I don't know you from a hole in the ground, and frankly, you're coming off as a total jackass.

No, I guess I haven't seen too much 'bizarre because they thought it was expected of them'. Plenty of bizarre, but that tended to be people getting out their energy in odd ways, younger or older.

There may be a real difference with CRPG types, I don't know.

QuoteThe truth of the matter, is that in various jobs I've held in the industry over the years, I became very good at reading games quickly, and yes, sometimes skimming them, and determining if they were 'my cup of tea' or not.

OK.  So you're a snob.  You're just ignorant about everything else.

Gotcha.

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaThe one parting comment I feel I should make on the matter is to suggest that it's more likely that I've misconveyed Tudge's assertion than it is that Tudge himself was mistaken.  Have a look at either (or both!) Neanderthals, Bandits and Farmers or The Time Before History for the straight dope.

I will have to look into them, although I do note that the thesis of Neanderthals, Bandits, and Farmers is that widespread agriculture began because a hunter-gatherer population was forced into an area which couldn't sustain them, which would suggest that they weren't malnourished because they farmed, they farmed because they were malnourished.

His theory also seems to depend overmuch on the idea that hunger was the only thing limiting the human population in those days, at which I giggle. It's as if the massive death rate due to disease in pre-modern times were a mere trifle.

Quote from: J ArcaneOK.  So you're a snob.  You're just ignorant about everything else.

Gotcha.

Whatever.  I'm out.  Have fun in your bubble.

Quote from: zomben....... and get a 'meh' feeling about, are ones that my friends love and are quite popular.  They simply do nothing for me[/I].

 I've always hated this phrase and variations on it :

QuoteThey simply do nothing for me.

 A game can't DO anything for you . What the hell are you expecting? A magic arm to reach out and give you a handjob?

 Its a GAME , you play it with friends around a table.  Its not a performing trained pet albino monkey that learned to speak french.

 As for the word 'meh' - I know its a coimmon thing on the internet , but its getting really boring. When I see that I just think person was too lazy to think of a better word.

- Ed C.

Quote from: KoltarI've always hated this phrase and variations on it :



 A game can't DO anything for you . What the hell are you expecting? A magic arm to reach out and give you a handjob?

 Its a GAME , you play it with friends around a table.  Its not a performing trained pet albino monkey that learned to speak french.

 As for the word 'meh' - I know its a coimmon thing on the internet , but its getting really boring. When I see that I just think person was too lazy to think of a better word.

- Ed C.

Possibly that's the point?
Get over yourself, mate.

Quote from: KoltarA game can't DO anything for you . What the hell are you expecting? A magic arm to reach out and give you a handjob?

A game does indeed have something it needs to "do": make me want to play it.  If it does not make me want to play it, then it is not something I'm going to spend any more time on.

Quote from: KoltarIts a GAME , you play it with friends around a table.  Its not a performing trained pet albino monkey that learned to speak french.

In all seriousness, what the hell are you talking about?

Quote from: KoltarAs for the word 'meh' - I know its a coimmon thing on the internet , but its getting really boring. When I see that I just think person was too lazy to think of a better word.

Yes, exactly.  A game that gives me a 'meh' feeling, is simply one that I don't feel like putting any further effort into.  As in "this entire thread gives me a 'meh' feeling."

Quote from: KoltarA game can't DO anything for you.

That's not what the phrase 'does nothing for me' means. Do you not know what the phrase means? In the context, e.g., it doesn't mean 'this game does not give me magic handjobs, roll my dice, phone for pizza, improvise on my behalf during my bathroom trips or even remind me to take bathroom trips - in fact, it does NOTHING for me'. It means 'does not excite my imagination' or perhaps 'does not queryingly raise the eyebrow of my interest'.

Quote from: KoltarAs for the word 'meh' - I know its a coimmon thing on the internet , but its getting really boring. When I see that I just think person was too lazy to think of a better word.

Meh.

- Q

Quote from: zombenWhat I said, was that not a single game has come out in the past few years that made me say 'Whee! I want to run this!'  I have perused, read, digested numerous games which have come out in the past ten years; anything from mainstream (Eden, WW, WotC, whatever) to indie (FUDGE, SOTC, Esoterrorists, whatever).  Many of the games I look at and get a 'meh' feeling about, are ones that my friends love and are quite popular.  They simply do nothing for me.

In my case, I could cite a few games that were published in the past few years that made me think "I WANT TO RUN THIS!!!!", but that's ME. If zomben said "All these new games are crap, they're very bad stuff" I would say "What are you saying?!!" :what: , but that's not what he said. I guess he would like to like them, but he can't.

Quote from: QuireThat's not what the phrase 'does nothing for me' means. Do you not know what the phrase means? In the context, e.g., it doesn't mean 'this game does not give me magic handjobs, roll my dice, phone for pizza, improvise on my behalf during my bathroom trips or even remind me to take bathroom trips - in fact, it does NOTHING for me'. It means 'does not excite my imagination' or perhaps 'does not queryingly raise the eyebrow of my interest'.

Exactly.

Maybe it's the game's fault, maybe it's zomben's fault, it doesn't matter. In the end, he doesn't get excited about them.

You know, the first game to give a handjob in 20 years will probably be the one to become popular.

Jus' saying.

There's a lot of talk about video games and their supposed imagination-melting power. It's fine if new games arn't your thing, or that you don't like video games. I, personally, don't get a whole lot out of most television; there's stuff out there I like a bunch, but I haven't found it worthwhile to worry about trying to find out when it's on. That's just an example.

My first snarky, gibberish-filled post was a joke, but I should come clean and say that I love video games. Rather then diminishing my imagination, much like favorite books, movies, and music, they have only served to fire it further. I categorically dismiss the idea that it's the media that's destroying imagination. Individual pieces might not be great, and they might not do anything for it, but on the other hand, there's a lot of really good games out there.

Amazingly, it's not just me. Everyone I associate with regularly plays and enjoyes video games. My generation might be the last that regularly engages in non-text-speak on their computers (and, it seems, research papers in school), but amazingly, we're not totally brain-dead.

If you want to get into text-speak, well, that's different. We can, but it's likely not indicitive of what one might think, imo.

I'm having a hard time prediciting what's big in 20 years. I think there should be some games left, but they'll be heavily supported with internet play-aids. Books arn't going to disappear, and neither are gaming groups, but I think we'll find them increasingly turning to electronic resources, so that the really popular ones are going to be in a mixed format. I think mixed formats will probably be the future.

I think we'll see D&D. It remains to be seen exactly what it'll look like. I think we'll see a Shadowrun, but I'm pretty sure we'll see some kind of modern guns-and-shit game. nWoD core is pretty promising, and I think White Wolf will try to hang onto the pure-paper and high-production styles they're working with for as long as it seems reasonable, then all of a sudden, they'll just change.

GURPS will probably do ok, maybe. We'll see a few new ones. D&D will hit a 5th Ed, Exalted will hit a revised or 3rd Ed. (Before we see if it continues to truck, or not), nWod will see a bunch of generic splats and a bunch of genre splats, then bog down under meta-plot and see a revision before it works out like Exalted will (one way or the other).

Mostly, we're seeing a group on the edge of serious technological development. The existing groups that survive will be based on the intelligence of a managing body to know how and when to shift gears, and the company being big enough to shift reasources or small enough to be flexible. I predict most middle-sized rpg=producing companies will lose out in the next 20.