please stop pwning me.

Quote from: Pierce InverarityKids, behold the mighty Odyssey.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnavox_Odyssey

Console gaming circa 1972.

I will state that this piece of machinery fundamentally rebooted my mind in ways RPGs never managed to do. That said, I haven't played a computer game in years. Except for pixel sizes and the Wii there seems to be no real innovation any more?

So, it's not like I feel I can't keep up with video games and civilization is going to hell, it's more like they've gotten really boring and I'd rather play a cool RPG.

The Wii doesn't do anything new except co-opt more VR technology like they did with the Virtual Boy.  It doesn't count as innovation in my view if you didn't actually invent the damn thing, or even really do anything new with the technology other than bring it into a broader public eye.

In a way, it does sort of make up for the last piece of ubiquitous VR research they ripped off and then implemented so poorly as to destroy it's image forever:  The HMD, in the form of the Virtual Boy.  Except they even managed to fuck up the "Head" part of "Head Mounted Display".  

Nintendo right now though, is doing something that could very well calcify video game tech pretty harshly if they succeed much better than they already have.  This new lo-fi approach with the DS and the Wii gets a lot of praise from the "graphics over gameplay" crowd, as if somehow just ignoring graphical fidelity as an aspect of advancement in games will magically make all games better, but the fanboys miss the point there.  Corporations don't think "gameplay", they don't think "creativity", they think "what makes me the most money", and if that means shorting graphics while at the same time pumping out the same crap they always have, they'll do it if they can get away with it.

So basically, if Nintendo succeeds, video game development gets set back half a decade or more, and maybe permanently, as video games get rendered into a novelty in the mainstream, with only the hardcore going for the more technologically advanced systems.

Otherwise, if the DS and Wii fade off, then likely development will continue as it always has, ever increasing graphical fidelity at the exchange of greater expense for games and thus often shorter content than previous eras, barring some major advancements in the methods by which we make content, advancements that could similarly apply to the end users as well in the form of making user-created content much more accessible to the general audience.

I think Spore is the big name everyone needs to be watching right now.  The immensity of the virtual space being presented, the inventive approach to content generation and creation, the integration of easy-to-use user created content tools as a core gameplay element.  

Basically Spore, should it succeed and I think with Will Wright at the helm it's guaranteed to, could change the whole landscape of games, and that if it's technology could be combined with some kind of easier-to-use adventure creator/GM client like what has recently been done in Ryzom Ring, then that's the closest thing we have on the horizon towards giving tabletop roleplaying a run for it's money.

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaNo you don't.

OK, I'll bite:

You're posting on the Internet on an RPG messageboard. This implies three things:

- You have a computer, and electricity to power it, and an Internet connection.
- You own and play RPGs.
- You have sufficient leisure time to play RPGs and post about them on the Internet.
- You either have enough money to afford all of the above, or can at least convince a bank to loan you enough to keep you going.

This would put you in a decidedly privileged demographic, based on the experience of the world's population as a whole; I would guess that you probably live in a wealthy country, although it's also possible that you live in a poorer country but have above-average wealth for that nation. The economic structure that makes your lifestyle and the products you utilise possible would be impossible without the concepts of time and money. I suspect that without internal combustion engines they would also be logistically impossible.

And yet you think they are bad things. How is that not ungrateful?

Or were you just making a joke? I'm cool if you are, but I've seen enough genuine primitivists sitting on the internet sincerely arguing that we should go back to pre-agrarian hunter-gatherer social models that I tend to take such comments at face value.

Quote from: WarthurOK, I'll bite:

Why bother?  You've clearly already passed judgment based on personal preconceptions.  Furthermore, you've neglected to observe or acknowledge the deleterious effects that certain technological and sociological progressions have on the human condition.

And, honestly, must you begrudge an old man his fatuous idiosyncracies?

!i!

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaWhy bother?  You've clearly already passed judgment based on personal preconceptions.

Then show how I am wrong. How is it unfair to say that that segment of humanity which a) has regular internet access and b) can afford to use said internet access to shoot the breeze on the internet is likely to be a fairly privileged demographic?

QuoteFurthermore, you've neglected to observe or acknowledge the deleterious effects that certain technological and sociological progressions have on the human condition.

It's not my job to come up with your side of the argument. Nor is it good debating technique to try and make an (unsupported) point at the same time as you are backing out of the discussion.

If you want to concede or back out, that's fair enough, but spare me the cheap parting shots. "You're wrong, but I refuse to get into a discussion with you about this!" is the wailing cry of an intellectual coward.

GET OFF MY LAWN!

I'm sure it isn't so much the concept of time as it is time itself. It's so restrictive to always have everything move in chronological order. Why can't I enjoy retirement now and get around to working later. Why can't life be more like Pulp Fiction.


...Y'know, except without the ass rape and such. 'Cause that's bad.

Quote from: WarthurIf you want to concede or back out, that's fair enough...

Fair enough.

Colin Tudge points out an interesting dichotomy in human social and economic evolution.  Based on archaeological evidence, the development of agriculture had a surprisingly delterious effect on the health of the individual.  Remains of individuals from early agricultural communities were less robust and more sickly than their co-terminous non-agricultural counterparts.  But there were more of them.  Agriculture was a better success strategy for supporting proliferation, while diminishing the quality of life of the individual.

It's not that great a stretch of the imagination to see that someone may be grateful for one effect of a thing, while discontent with the attendant ramifications.

Quote...but spare me the cheap parting shots. "You're wrong, but I refuse to get into a discussion with you about this!" is the wailing cry of an intellectual coward.

Well, you know what the appropriate response to this is already, don't you?  You can spare me your cheap parting shots, too.

!i!

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaFair enough.

Colin Tudge points out an interesting dichotomy in human social and economic evolution.  Based on archaeological evidence, the development of agriculture had a surprisingly delterious effect on the health of the individual.  Remains of individuals from early agricultural communities were less robust and more sickly than their co-terminous non-agricultural counterparts.  But there were more of them.  Agriculture was a better success strategy for supporting proliferation, while diminishing the quality of life of the individual.

Tudge's comment is based on a misunderstanding of statistics and natural selection. Hunter-gatherers tended to be robust because only the robust survived, only the robust contributed, and only the robust could be supported by society. The weak and the sickly? An impossible burden, better off dead. There are very few archaelogical samples of weak, sickly adult hunter-gatherers because weak, sickly people did not survive until adulthood.

Agricultural systems, on the other hand, made it possible for society to support not just a greater number of people, but a greater diversity of people. The weak, sickly and infirm could at last be fed, and perhaps make their own contribution - possibly in intellectual fields, since back-breaking labour and hunter-gathering were still not viable options for them.

QuoteIt's not that great a stretch of the imagination to see that someone may be grateful for one effect of a thing, while discontent with the attendant ramifications.Well, you know what the appropriate response to this is already, don't you?

It's also easy to imagine that someone might enjoy the benefits of one effect of a thing, wildly misunderstand other effects, and thereby still be discontent.

Have I had this argument with you elsewhere?

Could you?  

Now I'm no angel in threadjacking - but this is for off-topic if ever there was...interesting as hell, but not related to the OP much...

That's a fair point. Care to debate this in Off-Topic, Ian?

hay guys i no that i lik Halo, but r there good rpgs that arnt a final fantasy game??
i like to play other games to but maybe its to much work?

im lookin for good games where i can get lots of exps, lololol?

r there going to be rpgs in 20 yrs? i think so. I played final fantasy and halo is kinda a rpg, so maybe that will be around rofl.

link for spore, J Arcane?

Quote from: jeff37923I've seen much more self-centered play in which the PC gamer fucks over the rest of the party in order to gain more treasure or xp for his character. I've also seen just bizarre behavior from PC gamers, my favorite example is the halfling thief player who had his character eviserate every creature he killed and then crawl inside the corpse and squirm around for a minute - two sessions of this and we unanimously voted him out of the game group.

QuoteThere were a lot of old school D&D players like this too. And I loves me some old school D&D. Just sayin'.

Quote from: Calithenalink for spore, J Arcane?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spore_(video_game)