What RPG Would YOU Use To Introduce People To The Hobby?

Geek Messiah · September 12, 2006, 08:05:48 PM

Quote from: ColonelHardissonAgain, I think that's more a matter of perception than anything else. Reinventing the wheel everytime is usually unnecessary. Take Babylon 5 and Conan. Each had systems specifically designed for them in earlier RPG incarnations - TSR did Conan in the mid 80s, Chameleon Eclectic did B5 some years back. The current d20/OGL versions have received quite a bit of praise, where their forebears sank with nary a trace. I've seen complaints about both earlier games that they just didn't fit the setting. I actually have both versions of each game, and while the earlier versions aren't awful (well, OK, maybe in the case of CE's B5 game), they don't seem to fit their respective settings any better than the d20 versions. So there's no guarantee that starting from scratch is really going to result in the perfect fit.

But the problem there is that both companies could have done a really poor job on the game and used the incorrect system for the game.

Done right with it's own system we would get an actual comparison that we could really work with.

Is starting from scratch going to result in the perfect fit? No. But D20 wont always be a perfect fit either.

I know gamers like the whole "D20 for everything so I don't have to learn a new system" but D20 can't do everything perfectly. Neither can any other generic system.

Caesar Slaad · September 12, 2006, 08:07:54 PM

Quote from: Geek MessiahI know gamers like the whole "D20 for everything so I don't have to learn a new system" but D20 can't do everything perfectly. Neither can any other generic system.

A perfect system, santa claus, and easter bunny have a race. Which wins? A ha, trick question, none of them exist!

mythusmage · September 12, 2006, 08:21:34 PM

If he had a preference, and I knew the game, that's what we'd play. Otherwise I'd use an old adhoc system I cobbled together years ago.

A character has three traits: Mental, Physical, and Spiritual. Value of each is determined by rolling 2d10 and adding 30. Each trait has associated skills, with those rated as a percentage of the governing Trait. Ratings range from 10% of Trait to 75% of Trait depending on the player's conception. All else we'll fake as we go along. Obviously a low roll percentile system. Emphasis on adventure and other neat stuff.

That should give 'em a good idea of what RPGs are all about.

RPGPundit · September 12, 2006, 08:31:10 PM

Quote from: Caesar Slaad
It also probably depends on where you live... I'm given to understand that in Germany, D&D/d20 are not king of the hill.

Yup, you got a point there. In Germany, it would make sense to teach a player Shadowrun or DsA or CoC first. In the UK it might make as much sense (though not more) to teach them WFRP first.
But those are really exceptions to the general rule. In North America, and in most of the rest of the world, its D20 that is tops.

Still, let's take the exception into account and say this: you should teach the beginners from the point of view of what is actually popular where you are.

RPGPundit

Geek Messiah · September 12, 2006, 08:34:16 PM

Quote from: RPGPunditStill, let's take the exception into account and say this: you should teach the beginners from the point of view of what is actually popular where you are.

RPGPundit

Pundit,

I have agreed with you on many things but this I will disagree with you on forever.

gleichman · September 12, 2006, 08:34:21 PM

Quote from: RPGPunditStill, let's take the exception into account and say this: you should teach the beginners from the point of view of what is actually popular where you are.

I suppose that means that we here on the Internet need to teach them Forge games, assuming we're training them to join our online community and all...

Spike · September 12, 2006, 08:36:48 PM

Quote from: mythusmageIf he had a preference, and I knew the game, that's what we'd play. Otherwise I'd use an old adhoc system I cobbled together years ago.

A character has three traits: Mental, Physical, and Spiritual. Value of each is determined by rolling 2d10 and adding 30. Each trait has associated skills, with those rated as a percentage of the governing Trait. Ratings range from 10% of Trait to 75% of Trait depending on the player's conception. All else we'll fake as we go along. Obviously a low roll percentile system. Emphasis on adventure and other neat stuff.

That should give 'em a good idea of what RPGs are all about.

That reminds me of nothing so much as my little black book version of Recon....

Geek Messiah · September 12, 2006, 08:37:27 PM

Quote from: SpikeThat reminds me of nothing so much as my little black book version of Recon....

Little Black Book Version?

RPGPundit · September 12, 2006, 08:38:01 PM

Quote from: Geek MessiahYou think the industry is shrinking now? I am sure many of the people who don't like D20 would end up leaving the hobby. Now your hobby just got smaller and this is not the direction we need to go (ok this is very unlikely and a bit dramatic but you get where I am going with this).

The number of people who left roleplaying forever because they lost the ideological war for the heart of the hobby, ie. because D20 won, are a tiny minority of extremists, who are infinitessimally smaller than the number of people who have come back to roleplaying since D20 came out, after they'd been driven out by that very same tiny minority that had hijacked gaming in the 1990s.

Not to mention the number of people who have started playing RPGs for the first time since D20 came out!

RPGPundit

Spike · September 12, 2006, 08:38:40 PM

I've never seen Palladiums version of Recon, but I know it decends from a little black pamphlet, about fifty pages at most, which I happen to have. Sweet, simple little game about dying in vietnam, over and over again...

Geek Messiah · September 12, 2006, 08:40:30 PM

Quote from: RPGPunditThe number of people who left roleplaying forever because they lost the ideological war for the heart of the hobby, ie. because D20 won, are a tiny minority of extremists, who are infinitessimally smaller than the number of people who have come back to roleplaying since D20 came out, after they'd been driven out by that very same tiny minority that had hijacked gaming in the 1990s.

Not to mention the number of people who have started playing RPGs for the first time since D20 came out!

RPGPundit

The pool of gamers is shrinking. Game industry insiders have said it "Ken Hite, GMS, Others" and you can say whatever you want but disputing facts provided by industry insiders is pointless.

As for the number of gamers who don't play D20 the number isn't as small as you think. Even so this hobby with it's gamer pool shrinking on a constant basis really cannot afford to loose many gamers.

RPGPundit · September 12, 2006, 08:41:01 PM

Quote from: gleichmanI suppose that means that we here on the Internet need to teach them Forge games, assuming we're training them to join our online community and all...

No, the Forge games aren't in the majority, not even on the internet. They just have a bigger percentage. Even among online gamers, the most popular RPG system by FAR is D20.

RPGPundit

Geek Messiah · September 12, 2006, 08:41:46 PM

Quote from: SpikeI've never seen Palladiums version of Recon, but I know it decends from a little black pamphlet, about fifty pages at most, which I happen to have. Sweet, simple little game about dying in vietnam, over and over again...

Ah Cool. Interesting to know.

I am not a Palladium fan but Recon is actually an interesting game. The only reason I got rid of it is because I couldn't find people in my group to play it.

gleichman · September 12, 2006, 08:43:28 PM

Quote from: RPGPunditNo, the Forge games aren't in the majority, not even on the internet. They just have a bigger percentage. Even among online gamers, the most popular RPG system by FAR is D20.

You'd be hard pressed to prove that.

Spike · September 12, 2006, 08:44:25 PM

Quote from: Geek MessiahAh Cool. Interesting to know.

I am not a Palladium fan but Recon is actually an interesting game. The only reason I got rid of it is because I couldn't find people in my group to play it.

In the version I have you have four attributes, which are percentile rolled, that form the basis of everything else. You have skills, which are purely based on your attribute, maybe modified a bit (10% say) by being the right 'profession', you health is equal to your strength stat...

presto, complete game, more or less. The rules take up about three pages, the rest is 'setting'.