Quote from: S'mon;1134795Sounds like you'd enjoy Mini Six RPG! https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/144558/Mini-Six-Bare-Bones-Edition

I love running D&D style fantasy in Mini Six and not having any of the above to deal with (and no hit points either). Though we did go back to using Initiative after the playtest.

Yeah, I've considered checking out Mini Six. It's built on a good foundation (d6 System) while following a minimalistic approach. IMO, 4 attributes is all you need. I've often thought that D&D's ability scores were too stretched out and could be reduced to just the four used in Mini Six.

Quote from: Slipshot762;1134936I'm burnt out on most art that is displayed with products starting around 3e and onward, if its right to say it as such; I miss that 2e and 1e art style, if the art even hints at anime I begin to loathe it. The Elmore paintings or the black and white art work of Savage Sword of Conan is what I require.

I've hated all D&D art starting with 3e, and 3e's layout design in particular was horrendous and a prime example of how not to design a RPG book layout. But the art looks so plastic and uninspired. It's like modern fantasy art inspired by more fantasy art that was put together by committee.

It doesn't have an epic feel at all and doesn't transport me to a world of myth and legend, because IMO, it wasn't inspired by myth and legend, but by D&D itself as a self-referential source. I miss old D&D art: Larry Elmore, Clyde Caldwell, Jeff Easley, Gerald Brom, Keith Parkinson, etc. It was some of the best fantasy art ever.

Quote from: oggsmash;1134973Out of curiosity what changes do you think can be made to GURPs to get more fans?  I honestly always thought better art,  and a couple of good fleshed out settings for various genres instead of toolkits.  I thought they sort of had too many toolkits.    I thought the templates and such for Dungeon Fantasy were a step to giving people a defined idea instead of too many tools and not enough training.   But I am also not the right person to ask.  If they came out with a new edition and 10 books in that edition, I would buy all of them.

If they want to expand, they need to stop listening to the gearheads. They focused on the needs of niche audience of diehards, which alienates everyone else.

I don't see that happening. They've made their choice, and it does have some advantages, like a dedicated fan base and some very focused material. But a consequence of that narrow focus is they seem to have lost any grasp of what appeals to a broader audience (in RPGs; Munchkin is a different animal), and their attempts like Dungeon Fantasy come across as tone deaf.

Quote from: Razor 007;1134711What RPG stuff are you burned out on?

Terrible GMs and just bad role-players.

Quote from: VisionStorm;1135006Yeah, I've considered checking out Mini Six. It's built on a good foundation (d6 System) while following a minimalistic approach. IMO, 4 attributes is all you need. I've often thought that D&D's ability scores were too stretched out and could be reduced to just the four used in Mini Six.

I've hated all D&D art starting with 3e, and 3e's layout design in particular was horrendous and a prime example of how not to design a RPG book layout. But the art looks so plastic and uninspired. It's like modern fantasy art inspired by more fantasy art that was put together by committee.

It doesn't have an epic feel at all and doesn't transport me to a world of myth and legend, because IMO, it wasn't inspired by myth and legend, but by D&D itself as a self-referential source. I miss old D&D art: Larry Elmore, Clyde Caldwell, Jeff Easley, Gerald Brom, Keith Parkinson, etc. It was some of the best fantasy art ever.

Comparing Mini Six to D6 Fantasy, I find the former actually has more "stuff" - including a decent sized bestiary & a bunch of PC templates in the settings - it's just the presentation is incredibly concise. The Skills & TN detailing is similar level to 5e D&D, which works for me. The Perks & Complications systems are great, much better design on the Complications than base D6 System's equivalent advantage/disadvantage approach IMO. It's just all presented so concisely I had to play it to appreciate it.

Art - I agree 3e D&D art sucks, 4e D&D art mostly looks plasticy though I much prefer it to 3e. 5e D&D art is pretty inoffensive though. But I much prefer the pre-3e artists and use their stuff IMCs.

Quote from: VisionStorm;1135006Yeah, I've considered checking out Mini Six. It's built on a good foundation (d6 System) while following a minimalistic approach. IMO, 4 attributes is all you need. I've often thought that D&D's ability scores were too stretched out and could be reduced to just the four used in Mini Six.



I've hated all D&D art starting with 3e, and 3e's layout design in particular was horrendous and a prime example of how not to design a RPG book layout. But the art looks so plastic and uninspired. It's like modern fantasy art inspired by more fantasy art that was put together by committee.

It doesn't have an epic feel at all and doesn't transport me to a world of myth and legend, because IMO, it wasn't inspired by myth and legend, but by D&D itself as a self-referential source. I miss old D&D art: Larry Elmore, Clyde Caldwell, Jeff Easley, Gerald Brom, Keith Parkinson, etc. It was some of the best fantasy art ever.

You need to see the art in Dungeon Crawl Classics.

Quote from: Slipshot762;1134936I think maybe I'm just burned out on everything in general and that stunning amazement feeling of yore is gone forever and nostalgia is a curse. I remember that elmore cover art for the boxed sets of basic (metzner?) and how my mind could extrapolate infinite scenes and adventures from what the eye could take in, and now it seems like so much crushed and powdered jade littering the floor of a cool and placid lake where once an emerald ship of fantasy and adventure had sailed. Now we set at the shores of that lake ...

That was very nicely poetic, and that was me for a long time too.  RPGs were fun to argue about and occasionally play, and on the rare occasion I ran a game everyone had fun, but I was mostly bored with the whole thing.  Been there, done that, a million times over.  Then my son, out of the blue and without even knowing that I had been a serious gamer at one point, asked me to teach him how to play D&D.  We got some of his friends together and I ran them through a simple adventure to start with.  They were _so_ into it and excited, and I really enjoyed vicariously experiencing the first-time gamer rush through them.  It's all new again.  So that's my suggestion to anyone who wants to renew their interest in the hobby:  play with your kids.  (or any reasonable substitute if you don't have any)

There's a lot of things I'm tired of, but here's a few near the top of the list:

1)  Pseudo Tolkeinesque games.  There's been so many of those that the design space is exhausted.  Unless you can inject the actual majesty of Tolkein, I'm going to pass on those.

2)  Games that put in strange or unique things just to be different without any underlying narrative coherence.  

3) Games that read like textbooks.  Pure mechanical descriptions are really boring.  Learning new rules is trivial, but I still don't care to make the effort unless the game can show me how they enable cool/evocative/engaging play through good examples or short narratives.  Gygax was fun to read and his writing set the tone for the game.  The other end of the spectrum was 4E, I couldn't stay awake trying to read the rules.

Quote from: Mishihari;1135043There's a lot of things I'm tired of, but here's a few near the top of the list:

1)  Pseudo Tolkeinesque games.  There's been so many of those that the design space is exhausted.  Unless you can inject the actual majesty of Tolkein, I'm going to pass on those.

2)  Games that put in strange or unique things just to be different without any underlying narrative coherence.  

3) Games that read like textbooks.  Pure mechanical descriptions are really boring.  Learning new rules is trivial, but I still don't care to make the effort unless the game can show me how they enable cool/evocative/engaging play through good examples or short narratives.  Gygax was fun to read and his writing set the tone for the game.  The other end of the spectrum was 4E, I couldn't stay awake trying to read the rules.

But there were 30 Levels, and the Classes were balanced throughout with Powers!!!

Paranoia!
I ran 2e a lot last century, and it was the last of my old RPG-stuff that i got rid off before getting the RPG-bug again.
Now whenever I come across an old book or read an article I just feel "no, never again!".
Like when you´ve eaten too much cake. I still love cake but just cant eat another bite.

Anything Mythos. Most gamers don't get  it to start with, and it's been done to death anyway.

The only thing the Mythos has going for it these days is that the SJW's have targeted Lovecraft, so it's a thumb in their eye.

Like many others, the arrival of the postmodern culture wars with its leftarded victimhood in the RPG space has ruined so many things. Look at ENWorld: It was once free of religion and politics, and now it has devolved into RPG.net-lite.

Quote from: sureshot;1134965(snip) D&D First Edition I like the rpg and it will have a fond place in my heart as it was the first rpg I bought and ran, but man poorly organized and Gary Gygax comes off a pretentious asshole of a jerk in those books. One truwaysim "I'm not telling you that your doing it wrong yet if you don't do it exactly like how I do it your doing it wrong". I felt like asking him while he was alive to show whre on the DMG his players broke him. (snip)

I can't handle Gary Gygax being referred to as some sort of authority on game design and/or the game business. He wrote OD&D. It was a mess. That's forgivable as it was new. He then wrote AD&D. It was a bigger mess. That was unforgivable, especially as he pontificated about how there was "one true way" that he had written... somewhere beneath the layers of contradictions and chaos. Not to be outdone, after catching lightning in a jar with D&D, he then shot diarrhoea through a straw with Dangerous Journeys, Cyborg Commando, and some other crap I have erased from memory.

Finally, criticisms of 4E whenever someone tries to say something positive about it. The editions wars are over; 4E lost. Some of us, however, still like it. Sometimes we even like to talk about it online. Do the edition wars really need to be fought again whenever this happens?

1) Constant fighting for playstyles or gatekeeping.

The hobby is so vast, just play what you like and stop trying to diminish what other people like just because it's different from what you like.

I think the thing I'm tired of is not finding a system that I click with I guess. I've been running 5th edition, and the players like it, but the thing just feels antithetical to everything I've ever really done before. I hate hate hate the skill system in it. Its too narrow. Also hate the lack of really any system other than exploration and combat stuff. Not that you need a system to do social things, but it would help when your players are interested in trying to gain skill in artisan and craftsman type stuff.

Also, sick of WotC and their shit. 5th edition has been okay, I like a lot of its mechanics, but the dearth of content is just, meh. The modules have been pretty solid, basically mini campaigns. Some more settings and splat books would be nice.

Also, really tired of getting interested in running a Palladium game, and then remembering that the system is shit, and will always be shit.

Quote from: Itachi;11350681) Constant fighting for playstyles or gatekeeping.

The hobby is so vast, just play what you like and stop trying to diminish what other people like just because it's different from what you like.

I'm burned out on people claiming that advocating a playstyle is "fighting". Also, anyone who insists "gatekeeping" is a thing because someone doesn't want to play with them.

I do lament the lack of new blood to play GURPS I guess, but I also take a look at some of the stunning and brave changes for D&D spurred by having lots of new players the last decade....and to be honest, I will take the fewer people with GURPS