As someone who is actively writing a superhero adventure module, I have been thinking about what makes a good one quite a bit.
I have some thoughts of course, but I am really more interested in hearing what you think?
Quote from: Thondor on January 03, 2021, 12:48:03 PM
As someone who is actively writing a superhero adventure module, I have been thinking about what makes a good one quite a bit.
I have some thoughts of course, but I am really more interested in hearing what you think?
First and most important for a superhero adventure is "the buy-in"; i.e. what gets the PCs involved? what does it assume about the PCs motivations/organization?
The buy-in for a PC party that consists mostly of vigilante loners who team up to deal with bigger threats (ex. Netflix Defenders) is going to be different than a group of four-color heroes who regularly operate as a team (ex. Fantastic Four) is going to be different than a team of feared and hated mutants who work together, but don't regularly involve themselves in random acts of heroism (ex. The X-Men).
This generally means you're going to need to present several different buy-ins for different types of heroes because, unless its literally a "the world is about to end and everyone must band together or its all over" scenario you're going to have different motives and ways the PCs are organized. You can't even assume a news broadcast about danger in the city is going to actually get a party involved since their home setting may include bigger name heroes and their group's focus is on esoteric matters (ex. Dr. Strange may ignore an attack on the city by aliens because he knows the Avengers have it covered and he really needs to deal with this demonic incursion before it gets out of hand).
* * * *
The second factor to consider is power level. There's a huge different between the capabilities of Batman (in his own comic), Batman (in a JLA comic), Superman (in a JLA comic) and Superman (in his own comic) so you need to set the adventure up accordingly. Throwing a Bat-family threat at Superman is going to be ridiculous...
Batman (to assembled Bat-Family): We need to find where Two-Face's gang is holed up before they...
Superman (using super-hearing): They're in warehouse 37 down on the docks. (squints) They're loading up a bunch of trucks with the stolen $2 bills now."
Batman: Quick, we have to get down there and stop...
Superman: Aaannnd I got them rounded up and delivered to the police headquarters along with all the evidence and warned them of the poisons they've been laced with.
Batman: We need to get a hold of one of those bills to analyze the poison they were laced with.
Superman: Oh, it was Joker toxin... I analyzed them with my microscopic vision while I was delivering them to the police. It also had trace amounts of a fertilizer that was only manufactured in the (super speed) GreenCo Plant that's been out of business for the last five years and... (super speed) Yes, the Joker was there so I dropped him back at Arkham and the rest of his goons and that evidence to the police too.
Bat-Family: ...
Superman: One-second (zips out and back). Sorry, had to stop a volcanic eruption in Japan and keep an alien starfish from eating London. So, what else is there that needs to be handled as long as I'm here?
Batman: GET OUT OF MY CITY!!!The point is... make sure you've got a variety of power levels (or else make the power level of the adventure clear). They don't have to be the same thing... street level heroes may have to deal with looters and trapped civilians during an massive alien attack while a higher tier hero group may be dealing with the alien threat itself.
Most of my friends in the late 80's/early 90's were more comic book fans than Fantasy fans, so I ran tons of Superhero stuff.
The most important parts of any superhero story/adventure for an individual hero is/are the Subplots.
Nobody cares if Batman beats-up a group of henchmen for 10,000th time, and because it's a Superhero game, his victory should be assured. What's interesting (for example) is that in this current arc, he is trying to stop a brand-new villain, while in the Subplot, he has found Alfred staring at his old baseball glove quietly in the kitchen (they used to play catch with), and then various other events between battles/investigation/discovering the depth of the villains plot/power and failing ... culminating with noticing how badly Alfred's hands shake when trying to pour a cup of tea, and Alfred apologizing for no longer being "useful". He then discovers the new villain's motivation/goal; they have decided to kill every Gotham citizen over the age of 65 "for the good of the city" (save tax dollars, burden on the young, whatever.)
This motivates/gives the missing insight/whatever to Bruce/Batman to stop the villain, and his plot to eliminate the "Old".
The personal Subplot of Bruce Wayne ties into the Who, What, & Why of Batman. Superheros and their powers get boring fast. It's the people and weaknesses that hold the interesting bits.
Quote from: Two Crows on January 03, 2021, 03:01:02 PM
The personal Subplot of Bruce Wayne ties into the Who, What, & Why of Batman. Superheros and their powers get boring fast. It's the people and weaknesses that hold the interesting bits.
Good point Two Crows. Characters in Simple Superheroes have a "relations" mechanic for this reason. Beyond urging the GM to work in the character's relations and pointing to NPCs that new PCs could have a "relation" too, this can be a tricky thing to write for.
I have a section started on this, but it does need some beefing up and follow through. Thanks.
Quote from: Chris24601 on January 03, 2021, 01:28:20 PM
First and most important for a superhero adventure is "the buy-in"; i.e. what gets the PCs involved? what does it assume about the PCs motivations/organization?
snip
The second factor to consider is power level. snip
Both good points Chris. I do have a section on power level. Vigilante, and empowered work best, with planetary requiring more changes, but still viable. Cosmic could mine it for ideas, but that is probably all.
On buy-in . . . it's there, and can handle a few different possibilities but could probably be more explicit.
Quote from: Two Crows on January 03, 2021, 03:01:02 PM
The most important parts of any superhero story/adventure for an individual hero is/are the Subplots.
The personal Subplot of Bruce Wayne ties into the Who, What, & Why of Batman. Superheros and their powers get boring fast. It's the people and weaknesses that hold the interesting bits.
That's nice but Chris Perkins and many adventure-designers like myself would argue you can't tailor sub-plots in a published module because you have no idea who the PCs are. Also, using superpowers gets boring
for certain players while others could spam powers all session long while avoiding any and all unnecessary social interaction.
Don't forget your audience is diverse. Plan for all types of gamers not just storygamers.
Quote from: Theory of Games on January 03, 2021, 05:01:52 PM
Quote from: Two Crows on January 03, 2021, 03:01:02 PM
The most important parts of any superhero story/adventure for an individual hero is/are the Subplots.
The personal Subplot of Bruce Wayne ties into the Who, What, & Why of Batman. Superheros and their powers get boring fast. It's the people and weaknesses that hold the interesting bits.
That's nice but Chris Perkins and many adventure-designers like myself would argue you can't tailor sub-plots in a published module because you have no idea who the PCs are. Also, using superpowers gets boring for certain players while others could spam powers all session long while avoiding any and all unnecessary social interaction.
Don't forget your audience is diverse. Plan for all types of gamers not just storygamers.
I don't get your point?
The OP asked what we thought made a good Superhero module, correct?
I answered, and honestly.
Nothing dictates that a SuperHero module must be for player-generated characters, nor that diversity creates a better module than specificity. Nothing like that is in the OP. I'd actually argue that trying to please everyone (regarding playstyle) is an enormous mistake.
You and I are not required to agree, so what is the problem? Why not just state your own answer to the OP?
Quote from: Theory of Games on January 03, 2021, 05:01:52 PM
Quote from: Two Crows on January 03, 2021, 03:01:02 PM
The most important parts of any superhero story/adventure for an individual hero is/are the Subplots.
The personal Subplot of Bruce Wayne ties into the Who, What, & Why of Batman. Superheros and their powers get boring fast. It's the people and weaknesses that hold the interesting bits.
That's nice but Chris Perkins and many adventure-designers like myself would argue you can't tailor sub-plots in a published module because you have no idea who the PCs are. Also, using superpowers gets boring for certain players while others could spam powers all session long while avoiding any and all unnecessary social interaction.
Don't forget your audience is diverse. Plan for all types of gamers not just storygamers.
I think that's probably why you don't see many "Adventures" in the superhero genre, but instead a ton of "Settings" where they include the bare bones of all sorts of potential plots and villains the GM can then adapt to his particular band of heroes.
Quote from: Chris24601 on January 03, 2021, 05:32:47 PM
Quote from: Theory of Games on January 03, 2021, 05:01:52 PM
Quote from: Two Crows on January 03, 2021, 03:01:02 PM
The most important parts of any superhero story/adventure for an individual hero is/are the Subplots.
The personal Subplot of Bruce Wayne ties into the Who, What, & Why of Batman. Superheros and their powers get boring fast. It's the people and weaknesses that hold the interesting bits.
That's nice but Chris Perkins and many adventure-designers like myself would argue you can't tailor sub-plots in a published module because you have no idea who the PCs are. Also, using superpowers gets boring for certain players while others could spam powers all session long while avoiding any and all unnecessary social interaction.
Don't forget your audience is diverse. Plan for all types of gamers not just storygamers.
I think that's probably why you don't see many "Adventures" in the superhero genre, but instead a ton of "Settings" where they include the bare bones of all sorts of potential plots and villains the GM can then adapt to his particular band of heroes.
Eh --- V&V has a lot of adventures. ICONS has quite a few. Now M&M has more setting/genre books.
2. Make everything over-the-top: superhuman fights are like a hurricane and an earthquake hitting a city simultaneously. NPCs should be melodramatic rather than merely interesting. Exploration isn't limited to the world: take the party into space or another dimension.
FGU produced a series of superhero modules of varying quality for V&V. But overall they tended to be fairly good. And broad enough in presentation playstyles of varying sorts could get some fun from it. Some of their modules even won awards.
TSR's MSH line of modules were also pretty good for much the same reasons. If anything TSR presented even broader allowances for playstyles.
The main thing to consider is the setting and especially the tone of that setting.
When I was briefly working on the SMT RPG I had to go even further because its a parody setting with alot of oddball and risque humour so you had to design with that sort of scope in mind. That would totally fail for play in say WW's Aberrant setting.
Examples since I had to sit down and consider this more than once for IP based projects over the decades.
-Pulp Era: Is it a deadly serious grim world where death is on every bullet? Or is it a mix lie in say the old Green Hornet serial where things were a little lighter, but still overall serious? Or is it a much more lighthearted romp like certain other serials of the era?
-Golden Age and on. Also the same factor of how serious vs light is it?
Theres also other factors like how prominent are vehicles? How potent are they? Contrast the serial version of the Green Hornet's car with the TV series version for example. Or even more heavily vehicle themed superhero shows like Knight Rider, Streethawk, Airwolf, etc for more example. Theres a reason why many supers RPGs leave out vehicles.
Quote from: Theory of Games on January 03, 2021, 06:08:05 PM
Don't forget your audience is diverse. Plan for all types of gamers not just storygamers.
I'm pretty "traditional" but yes, I hope there is something for most gamers without completely losing focus.
Quote from: Theory of Games on January 03, 2021, 06:08:05 PM
2. Make everything over-the-top: superhuman fights are like a hurricane and an earthquake hitting a city simultaneously. NPCs should be melodramatic rather than merely interesting. Exploration isn't limited to the world: take the party into space or another dimension.
Great point. I would suggest that the degree of the hurricane should depend on the power level that the game is set at.
Melodrama is part of the fun!
*Account for various combination of superpowers, or their lack. More than many other genres, you need to account for "Oh, the central conflict of this adventure is something I regularly resolve in my downtime." Murder mystery? Needs to deal with super-science, super-senses, necromancers, reanimators, and many more things. So, you'll need a pretty strong understanding of the underlying system, and what is and isn't possible, in order to make the adventure feasible.
*Absolutely no "Your powers don't work here!" areas. They're tedious and played-out. What are fun are "This villain or scenario has these effects, here are some interesting ways they interact with other power sources in the setting."
*Strongly-characterized NPCs. This, I think, is probably the most important part of any module; in my experience, PCs are far more likely to stick with a module and care about the outcome if the people they are interacting with are fun and interesting, and if they want to keep said people around after the adventure is over, you've got build-in sequel hooks.
*Good (but not overwhelming) ties to the existing setting / metaplot. Most games will at least gesture in the direction of the existing setting, so having things that tie into that
---
One of the favorite extended modules that I ran for my group was for Mutants and Masterminds 2E, called Time of Vengeance. It's a fun and involved adventure featuring a crises themed around the Ten Plagues of Egypt. One of the things that it did well was that it let me pick out which of the plagues were going to be fully-realized encounters, and which were going to, as a result of player choices, be mere side-notes or supplements. (For example, the plague avatars who used insects or frogs were very ineffective against the ghost PC, and so those encounters mostly instead because showcases of the underlying baddie, and what happened to the avatars when they didn't fulfill their role.)
There were ten separate villains, each with their own motivation, and a strong selection of side characters; one of my PCs ended up picking up one of the de-villainified plague avatars as her own kid sidekick based on his literal scenery-chewing (he was Locusts), and the final villain's story and history was both key to defeating her in the non-violent path, and doled out surprisingly well over the course of the module. And because her backstory tied interestingly to decades-old history of the Freedom League (the setting's JLA/Avengers equivalent), the group was motivated to learn about her not just to resolve the current situation, but to learn more about them. M&MM is a specific, simulationist-over-narrativist rules set, which is not the most popular these days, but if you're in a similar ruleset or setting, I'd recommend seeing if you can score a copy to look it over.
Quote from: Chris24601 on January 03, 2021, 01:28:20 PM
The second factor to consider is power level. There's a huge different between the capabilities of Batman (in his own comic), Batman (in a JLA comic), Superman (in a JLA comic) and Superman (in his own comic) so you need to set the adventure up accordingly. Throwing a Bat-family threat at Superman is going to be ridiculous...
SNIP
The point is... make sure you've got a variety of power levels (or else make the power level of the adventure clear). They don't have to be the same thing... street level heroes may have to deal with looters and trapped civilians during an massive alien attack while a higher tier hero group may be dealing with the alien threat itself.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't most superhero RPG systems assume the "JLA" power level as the default? So Superman is mostly strong and tough, with some heat vision and cold breath, but doesn't have Flash levels of super-speed. Flash's super-speed lets him do speedster stunts, but doesn't let him actually do more per round than anybody else. (Systems like HERO which do allow speedsters to have more actions generally result in speedster bans at chargen.) Batman is the detective/brains/tactician of the group, and has enough plot armor to keep him from getting squished in the first round of combat.
Characters also tend to lose limitations that would interfere with operating as a group. For instance, Aquaman usually doesn't have a limit on the time he can spend out of water.
Quote from: Lurkndog on January 05, 2021, 10:44:50 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't most superhero RPG systems assume the "JLA" power level as the default? So Superman is mostly strong and tough, with some heat vision and cold breath, but doesn't have Flash levels of super-speed. Flash's super-speed lets him do speedster stunts, but doesn't let him actually do more per round than anybody else. (Systems like HERO which do allow speedsters to have more actions generally result in speedster bans at chargen.) Batman is the detective/brains/tactician of the group, and has enough plot armor to keep him from getting squished in the first round of combat.
Characters also tend to lose limitations that would interfere with operating as a group. For instance, Aquaman usually doesn't have a limit on the time he can spend out of water.
I think this depends on what you mean by "JLA" power level. If you mean -- what they are most likely to do with the characters most of the time in stories and cartoons, then perhaps. I would guess many games are actually closer to what Avengers characters can do, though.
By their nature a lot of JLA members are what I would call Cosmic Tier in my system (Superman can hold a mini-black hole in his hand, push planets around, the Flash can choose to move so fast as to eliminate all non-metahuman crime in a metropolitan region - including littering). You are more likely to see this sort of capability in their solo series. I rarely run this tier at conventions and events, because it is a challenge for every player to come up with a concept that works at this level.
Most games I run tend to be "empowered" tier. Roughly analogous to Spider-man and his foes. You can have pretty much any power, but no one can cut loose and destroy most of a city in a handful of minutes (that's for Planetary tier characters).
3. Bring the Dungeon!: what I like from many of the V&V modules is at some point the PC supers have to infiltrate the BBEG's HQ, which brought a 'dungeon-crawl' kind of experience that connected to my D&D play.
4. Media Attention: the PCs' public activity should find its way onto TV, radio, newspapers and the web. Maybe the heroes are portrayed as heroes or vigilantes or criminals or a combination that impacts how NPCs react to them.
Quote from: Thondor on January 05, 2021, 01:47:30 PM
I think this depends on what you mean by "JLA" power level. If you mean -- what they are most likely to do with the characters most of the time in stories and cartoons, then perhaps. I would guess many games are actually closer to what Avengers characters can do, though.
I'm not sure I understand the distinction you're trying to make between the JLA and the Avengers.
Quote from: Lurkndog on January 06, 2021, 10:27:46 PM
Quote from: Thondor on January 05, 2021, 01:47:30 PM
I think this depends on what you mean by "JLA" power level. If you mean -- what they are most likely to do with the characters most of the time in stories and cartoons, then perhaps. I would guess many games are actually closer to what Avengers characters can do, though.
I'm not sure I understand the distinction you're trying to make between the JLA and the Avengers.
It is generally agreed that JLA characters are
a lot more powerful then Avengers characters. So much so, that I often point to the difference between them to illustrate the difference between Cosmic Tier characters and Planetary tier characters when I am talking with players of my system.
An easy example is the Flash and Quicksilver. They are both speedsters, but the kinds of things they can do with their speed are not really comparable.
I don't personally find that comparing the most ridiculous thing that a character has ever done to be useful, but what they do routinely still points to this.
This could easily become a thread derailment, so perhaps I will leave it at that.
Quote from: robertliguori on January 04, 2021, 07:16:21 PM
*Account for various combination of superpowers, or their lack. More than many other genres, you need to account for "Oh, the central conflict of this adventure is something I regularly resolve in my downtime." Murder mystery? Needs to deal with super-science, super-senses, necromancers, reanimators, and many more things. So, you'll need a pretty strong understanding of the underlying system, and what is and isn't possible, in order to make the adventure feasible.
*Absolutely no "Your powers don't work here!" areas. They're tedious and played-out. What are fun are "This villain or scenario has these effects, here are some interesting ways they interact with other power sources in the setting."
*Strongly-characterized NPCs. This, I think, is probably the most important part of any module; in my experience, PCs are far more likely to stick with a module and care about the outcome if the people they are interacting with are fun and interesting, and if they want to keep said people around after the adventure is over, you've got build-in sequel hooks.
*Good (but not overwhelming) ties to the existing setting / metaplot. Most games will at least gesture in the direction of the existing setting, so having things that tie into that
The Adventure Module itself provides a lot of the "setting" material. The plan is to write a series of these, each with a little more details on the city/universe. Frankly, I may be a little too heavy on the ties to the setting, but that setting is what helps to give each of the NPCs a important place. Agreed with your "Strongly-characterized NPCs," this is one of the things I had in mind when I started the thread.
Handling the open ended possibility of different powers is part of the fun but it is challenging. (Writing for a set of pregen characters does not interest me in the least.)
Quote from: robertliguori on January 04, 2021, 07:16:21 PM
One of the favorite extended modules that I ran for my group was for Mutants and Masterminds 2E, called Time of Vengeance.
snip
I may have to check that out.
Quote from: Theory of Games on January 06, 2021, 10:26:23 AM
3. Bring the Dungeon!: what I like from many of the V&V modules is at some point the PC supers have to infiltrate the BBEG's HQ, which brought a 'dungeon-crawl' kind of experience that connected to my D&D play.
4. Media Attention: the PCs' public activity should find its way onto TV, radio, newspapers and the web. Maybe the heroes are portrayed as heroes or vigilantes or criminals or a combination that impacts how NPCs react to them.
There is a couple moments like #3, they'll probably be more of that in one of the sequels.
4 is a really important point, that I hadn't specifically addressed yet. Thanks.
Quote from: Thondor on January 10, 2021, 03:42:19 PM
It is generally agreed that JLA characters are a lot more powerful then Avengers characters. So much so, that I often point to the difference between them to illustrate the difference between Cosmic Tier characters and Planetary tier characters when I am talking with players of my system.
An easy example is the Flash and Quicksilver. They are both speedsters, but the kinds of things they can do with their speed are not really comparable.
I think it's not generally accepted. I don't even think Marvel and DC generally accept this distinction. The Avengers vs. JLA 4-issue limited series is a *fantastic* love-letter to the history of both these teams and it even uses your example as meme within the story... yet the context of what these two teams do within their settings are very much the same. They deal with cosmic level threats as well as high-powered terrestrial threats as a norm.
If you're going to go tit-for-tat Thor vs. Supers, Bats vs. Cap etc etc. that's kind of not the argument being made, right? It's what do these two teams represent. The JLA/Avengers crossover does all the talking on that topic one could make: Busiek + Perez, not modern hacks honoring both teams and universes contextually.
What makes a good Superhero adventure? I'm going to say:
Interesting conflict where danger matters and stakes are high.
Interesting villains that aren't stupid and have a plan, while still being vulnerable because of their flaws.
The adventure should take the players to an interesting environment (or multiple environments) where you can hopefully challenge as many of the heroes as possible. Who doesn't like the idea of the X-Men being sent to the Savage Land or the Blue Area of the Moon? The Teen Titans suddenly caught in the interstellar war of the Citadel?
The adventure should allow breathing room for the players to indulge in the story/setting - where their character have moments to shine. This might take a little forethought, or if you're in the moment, keep an awareness of events that will let you pit your PC(s) in question to test themselves in/out of their element. Nothing makes a Superhero adventure hit that Next Level(tm) more than making your players feel like big goddamn heroes. EVEN IF THEY FAIL - make it heroic.
Regarding buy-in, I've had good luck with players telling me why they're bought in. In the last supers game I ran, I told the players at the beginning, I needed to know what their opinion of the main NPC was. I didn't care if they loved him or hated him, they just couldn't be neutral. That way, they'll care one way or the other what happens to/with that character. Tell me why the Midtown Museum is important to you. Everybody knows Det. Kwan hates supers -- how did she mess with you? Stuff like that.
When I'm making a supers adventure, I try to make sure I include a problem they can't punch their way out of. Something they'll have to think their way through. Not to make their powers useless, but make them get creative.
Something I'm not always good about is keeping up a sense of urgency. Don't let the PCs plan like a SWAT team. If they don't move, the bad guys hit somewhere else. If they take too long, they hear about the bad guys making a major score they *know* will be bad. Keep them moving and keep them on the clock.
Quote from: tenbones on January 12, 2021, 03:12:31 PM
Quote from: Thondor on January 10, 2021, 03:42:19 PM
It is generally agreed that JLA characters are a lot more powerful then Avengers characters. So much so, that I often point to the difference between them to illustrate the difference between Cosmic Tier characters and Planetary tier characters when I am talking with players of my system.
An easy example is the Flash and Quicksilver. They are both speedsters, but the kinds of things they can do with their speed are not really comparable.
I think it's not generally accepted. I don't even think Marvel and DC generally accept this distinction. The Avengers vs. JLA 4-issue limited series is a *fantastic* love-letter to the history of both these teams and it even uses your example as meme within the story... yet the context of what these two teams do within their settings are very much the same. They deal with cosmic level threats as well as high-powered terrestrial threats as a norm.
If you're going to go tit-for-tat Thor vs. Supers, Bats vs. Cap etc etc. that's kind of not the argument being made, right? It's what do these two teams represent. The JLA/Avengers crossover does all the talking on that topic one could make: Busiek + Perez, not modern hacks honoring both teams and universes contextually.
I love Busiek's stuff (I have all of Astro City, just read a 'Red Tornado" issue by him from '85, enjoyed his run on Thunderbolts and Untold Tales of Spider-man), I should check out that mini-series.
I think your pointing out something that I make a distinction about that you don't seem to be: the scale of the action != the power level of the character.
In SS#0 I talk about the Scale of Action (the political and geography context of a story-arc) being: Street, Regional, Global, and Galactic. This is separate from the Power Tier (what the characters can do with their Talents/powers): Vigilante, Empowered, Planetary, and Cosmic.
You can have a scenario with Cosmic Tier characters at the Street scale of action, and then in your next session move to a new story-arc at the Galactic scale of action.
Yes both the Avengers and JLA mostly have stories at the Global and Galactic Scale of Action. You correctly point out that this is their role in their respective universes. That does not (necessarily) mean they are at the same Power Tier.
Quote from: tenbones on January 12, 2021, 03:12:31 PM
What makes a good Superhero adventure? I'm going to say:
Interesting conflict where danger matters and stakes are high.
Interesting villains that aren't stupid and have a plan, while still being vulnerable because of their flaws.
The adventure should take the players to an interesting environment (or multiple environments) where you can hopefully challenge as many of the heroes as possible. Who doesn't like the idea of the X-Men being sent to the Savage Land or the Blue Area of the Moon? The Teen Titans suddenly caught in the interstellar war of the Citadel?
The adventure should allow breathing room for the players to indulge in the story/setting - where their character have moments to shine. This might take a little forethought, or if you're in the moment, keep an awareness of events that will let you pit your PC(s) in question to test themselves in/out of their element. Nothing makes a Superhero adventure hit that Next Level(tm) more than making your players feel like big goddamn heroes. EVEN IF THEY FAIL - make it heroic.
On your last point -- I'm not sure how a written adventure module would do this. It is solid GM advice of course. Anything you can elaborate on in that way?
Quote from: Almost_Useless on January 12, 2021, 09:07:04 PM
Regarding buy-in, I've had good luck with players telling me why they're bought in. In the last supers game I ran, I told the players at the beginning, I needed to know what their opinion of the main NPC was. I didn't care if they loved him or hated him, they just couldn't be neutral. That way, they'll care one way or the other what happens to/with that character. Tell me why the Midtown Museum is important to you. Everybody knows Det. Kwan hates supers -- how did she mess with you? Stuff like that.
When I'm making a supers adventure, I try to make sure I include a problem they can't punch their way out of. Something they'll have to think their way through. Not to make their powers useless, but make them get creative.
Something I'm not always good about is keeping up a sense of urgency. Don't let the PCs plan like a SWAT team. If they don't move, the bad guys hit somewhere else. If they take too long, they hear about the bad guys making a major score they *know* will be bad. Keep them moving and keep them on the clock.
All good points, thanks.
On the first one -- I have been contemplating including a connection web option in an appendix. No real mechanics, just a way for players to related how their characters are connected to and feel about major NPCs, locations, and organizations.
Quote from: Lurkndog on January 05, 2021, 10:44:50 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't most superhero RPG systems assume the "JLA" power level as the default? So Superman is mostly strong and tough, with some heat vision and cold breath, but doesn't have Flash levels of super-speed. Flash's super-speed lets him do speedster stunts, but doesn't let him actually do more per round than anybody else. (Systems like HERO which do allow speedsters to have more actions generally result in speedster bans at chargen.) Batman is the detective/brains/tactician of the group, and has enough plot armor to keep him from getting squished in the first round of combat.
Characters also tend to lose limitations that would interfere with operating as a group. For instance, Aquaman usually doesn't have a limit on the time he can spend out of water.
IIRC, and the 80's were a long time ago, MSH had "suggested" heroes that gave you an idea of the power levels involved.
Ex. Spider-Man level vs. Avengers (or Punisher vs. Thor).
In the old DC game, Hero Point range was actually specified in the module description.
Quote from: Thondor on January 10, 2021, 03:42:19 PM
It is generally agreed that JLA characters are a lot more powerful then Avengers characters. So much so, that I often point to the difference between them to illustrate the difference between Cosmic Tier characters and Planetary tier characters when I am talking with players of my system.
An easy example is the Flash and Quicksilver. They are both speedsters, but the kinds of things they can do with their speed are not really comparable.
I don't personally find that comparing the most ridiculous thing that a character has ever done to be useful, but what they do routinely still points to this.
This could easily become a thread derailment, so perhaps I will leave it at that.
No, you are correct.
At least through the 1990's.
Superman was "Cosmic" level for Marvel (Silver Surfer, Dr. Strange, maybe the FF combined).
The Avengers were much more like the Jr. Justice League (Nightwing, Jericho, Starfire, etc.).
Almost_Useless is saying something similar to what I'm trying to say.
Sub-Plots.
Superhero games, in the end, are not about "leveling up". They are about pursuing stories the players want to pursue, in ways that are interesting. The Sub-Plots are what the superheroes are speaking directly to our psychology, and that is ultimately what the genre is all about.
"My guy can beat-up anything and always wins" is a child-like, personal fantasy that will grow old quickly, IME. It's the problems that still exist, and how they are resolved, despite god-like abilities, that makes the Super Hero genre popular.
It was, LITERALLY, what Stan Lee is famous for.
I realize this can be tough for a module. Maybe you can generalize to a level that will reach across groups?
Ex. Romance Subplot: Character A's love interest does B, and X happens to them in Scene 3.
Self-Doubt Subplot: ....
Outlaw Subplot: ...
Etc.
Let's face it, most of these fall into broad-strokes categories. You can give the GM plenty, and still let them customize it to their group.
Quote from: Two Crows on January 15, 2021, 02:03:09 AM
Almost_Useless is saying something similar to what I'm trying to say.
Sub-Plots.
Superhero games, in the end, are not about "leveling up". They are about pursuing stories the players want to pursue, in ways that are interesting. The Sub-Plots are what the superheroes are speaking directly to our psychology, and that is ultimately what the genre is all about.
"My guy can beat-up anything and always wins" is a child-like, personal fantasy that will grow old quickly, IME. It's the problems that still exist, and how they are resolved, despite god-like abilities, that makes the Super Hero genre popular.
It was, LITERALLY, what Stan Lee is famous for.
I realize this can be tough for a module. Maybe you can generalize to a level that will reach across groups?
Ex. Romance Subplot: Character A's love interest does B, and X happens to them in Scene 3.
Self-Doubt Subplot: ....
Outlaw Subplot: ...
Etc.
Let's face it, most of these fall into broad-strokes categories. You can give the GM plenty, and still let them customize it to their group.
Thanks. I think there are some things I can do relating to characters relations here. (Heroes start with 3 relations to people, places or things/activities in Simple Superheroes.)
I've got to add though, I got to play in an extended campaign of my own system recently. One of the surprising experiences I had was how much I wanted and thought about what new Talents my character would gain/develop.
I think there are lots of Superhero games that do not support advancement as well. While many people conceive of the genre as having characters with relatively static powers, I don't really agree with that. There are lots of examples of heroes improving their powers, developing new ones, gaining useful contacts and resources etc.
Just wanted to share my synthesis of what's been discussed so far. (I haven't included everything, some advice was more on the GMing a good adventure side, and I am sure I have missed some too.)
What Makes a good Superhero Adventure Module Synthesis:
• Clarity of character buy-in (Chris)
• let players decide on connections to important NPCs (Almost_Useless)
• Power-tier options and clarity (Chris)
• Personal Subplots / connections (Two Crows)
• Over-the-top action and melodrama (Two Crows)
• Clear tone of the setting (Omega)
• Provisions for array of PC super-powers (robertliguori)
• Ties to setting - not overwhelming (robertliguori)
• Strongly characterized NPCs (robertliguori)
• Bring the Dungeon (traps, infiltration) (Theory of Games)
• Media Attention (Theory of Games)
• Villains with a plan – vulnerable to their flaws (tenbones)
• Strange or unique environments/locations (tenbones)
• Mix of Punching problems and non-punching ones (Almost_Useless)
Working on it:
I've worked a lot of this advice into my 2nd draft of Simple Superheroes Issue #1 The Experiment. Looking over the list there's a few that I think can still be done better. Power level may not be clear, and could use a section on running at different power levels. Tone could use a call-out -- though I think it is there.
Feedback:
I'd be happy to share my draft with anyone here who feels like reading a 40-page comic book sized adventure module. Be great to know what you think. Just send me a PM.
Quote from: Thondor on January 03, 2021, 12:48:03 PM
As someone who is actively writing a superhero adventure module, I have been thinking about what makes a good one quite a bit.
I have some thoughts of course, but I am really more interested in hearing what you think?
It depends on if players want to role-play or win the game. Who is it (the audience) that you are writing for?
Quote from: Shawn Driscoll on March 02, 2021, 01:00:31 PM
Quote from: Thondor on January 03, 2021, 12:48:03 PM
As someone who is actively writing a superhero adventure module, I have been thinking about what makes a good one quite a bit.
I have some thoughts of course, but I am really more interested in hearing what you think?
It depends on if players want to role-play or win the game. Who is it (the audience) that you are writing for?
I think what you are actually suggesting here is that a good module should help prepare a GM for both player mindsets -- because for a lot of tables you'll have players of both stripes. If you're suggesting something else I'd love to here it.
(I'm not a fan of win the game, you can beat the bad guy -- even beat the adventure, but to me you don't "win" the game. That's part of the beauty of an RPG: victories yes, but like life, they go on.)
A bit of a thread necro, but I synergized a lot of the advice from this thread and worked it into Simple Superheroes #1, which is on Kickstarter right now and funding ends in Monday at Midnight EST.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts all! Appreciate it if you give it a look.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/jkitz/simple-superheroes-1-the-experiment-rpg-adventure (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/jkitz/simple-superheroes-1-the-experiment-rpg-adventure)
Good gaming!
-- edit fix link