TheRPGSite

So, what kind of OSR game would you like to see that doesn't yet exist?  Be it a specific kind of "retro clone" or an OSR take on a particular genre, or setting type, or an OSR treatment of a specific license?  Or a particular kind of mechanical emphasis (the way, say, ACKS put an emphasis on dominion-management)?

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;612983So, what kind of OSR game would you like to see that doesn't yet exist?  Be it a specific kind of "retro clone" or an OSR take on a particular genre, or setting type, or an OSR treatment of a specific license?  Or a particular kind of mechanical emphasis (the way, say, ACKS put an emphasis on dominion-management)?

RPGPundit

I like to see more settings and rules expansions and fewer rules sets.

As it is I'll never buy or use ACKS, but if it had been a supplement on domain management I would have snapped it up in a heart beat.

A lot OSR game could really have just been supplements where they present their one or two good ideas.

I'd like to see more drop-in setting elements, such as an island or nation that could easily be adapted to an existing setting. Better yet, books that address subsystems and variants for things like magic, domain management, trade, maritime campaigns, alchemy, and the like.

Honestly, I have my rules system in place. I think most of us do, at this point. I don't begrudge new OSR fantasy rule sets, but I think the ground has been well-covered.

I've got the retro-clones that I want. I'd like to see more people doing stuff with them that I can spend my money on. Adventures and settings and good magazines are more interesting to me than yet another set of fucking rules when I already have perfectly good ones to use.

As I made clear in this thread (http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?t=25185), I'd like something like what's been presented by "Warriors of the Red Planet". Focused Sword & Planet adventure, in that case. I'd be interested in a similar OSR product that presented some originality, or highlighted an intriguing sub-genre of Fantasy.

What I'm definitely not interested in is an OSR game that's just another retooling of a specific D&D game system with some houserules. Plenty of retroclones exist now that cover all the bases - all the different versions of D&D that have existed over the past 37 years. Even crossbreeds between editions.

Hm. I am not looking for a new complete ruleset, since I've got mine, (see sig for brief English summary), and it has served us well since 2004. We are not likely to change that for our regular adventure fantasy. For smaller variations, I can create a hack in a few days and start playing. I'd generally prefer supplements I can bolt onto my game, not full replacements. Of course, they are fine if they are done very well, but they would have to be different enough and good enough to encourage us to change.

The following ideas interest me:

• Something which substantially transforms the feel or structure of baseline D&D without completely un-D&Ding it. Like, something which does high fantasy well (D&D doesn't), or which expands the game in new directions. ACKS seems to be along these lines, but it is its own game in a thick book. My mass combat subsystem is 2 pages long. It works. I don't want a 300 page book to expand it. Those extra 298 pages are a big cost and time barrier and I need a good reason to cross it.
• Something which adapts D&D (or potentially some other system) to a new cultural milieu while retaining accessibility. Arrows of Indra and Spears of Dawn are both experients in this direction, and I await them with interest.
  
• Modular, plug-and-play rules modules. Don't overdo them. Allow me to take a 16 page idea and expand on it. I like short supplements. Give me a good psionic system in 16 pages and I am more likely to use it than The Grand Book of Psionics (leatherbound edition $69+S&H, on the $3000 reward tier, the author will personally come to your house and devour your brain).
  
• Something which covers familiar ground, but gives it excellent structural and procedural support. Look at Stars Without Number. It is nothing new, but it is a well-built, streamlined system on both the player and GM side, and it is just chock full of relevant, valuable support material. It is a big book, but that extra material feels justified because it is all about giving you efficient, transparent processes and structures. Or take Vornheim, which does it in a smaller package.

One I want to see (and am writing) is '50s atomic age horror.

I'd also like to see more really out-there fantasy/horror ideas that could be the basis of an entire game or a drop-in for some other game.

I'm good with people publish scads of house-ruled clones. Even if I don't choose to download or buy, I like the *idea* of people producing tons of material, so that practically everything you could ever want would be out there, somewhere. The only criticism of this I would offer is that house-rule documents should focus on the house-rules and not duplicate parts that are already present in many retroclones. Just focus on the parts that are different and refer to one of the retroclones for the rest.

I would really dig a good OSR style Western RPG or some well researched historical supplements. I have started working on a campaign myself based in a sort of weird fantasy influenced English Civil War.

Quote from: Melan;613007

• Something which substantially transforms the feel or structure of baseline D&D without completely un-D&Ding it. Like, something which does high fantasy well (D&D doesn't)

I'd be curious to hear/read you expound on that point a bit. Where you think that disconnect is and ways to fix it. Maybe it's just your avatar (and location) that has me thinking you'd have particularly good insights there.

I generally agree that we have plenty of rulesets and could use more and better adventures, and settings, and modular rules supplements.

Still, I'm all for everyone publishing their D&D hack, and I might yet sit down and write the modern day spy thriller & men's adventure D&D hack I once dreamed about...

Quote from: Melan;613007The following ideas interest me:

Sorry for not quoting everything (typing on the phone here).

I'd lump ACKS with SWN: nothing strictly new but a comprehensive toolbox for those who want to get into the nitty-gritty of high-level domain management. Rebuilding the game from the ground up around this was more or less the authors' mission statement.

On a related topic, have you looked into An Echo Resounding (no links. Fucking phone) by SWN's own Kevin Crawford? It's a simpler, shorter, and most importantly, modular and supplementary take on domain management.

I'd like an OSR set designed for swords and sorcery. So far, none exist.

An updated Villains and Vigilantes type game that's a bit less wonky.

Quote from: danbuter;613041I'd like an OSR set designed for swords and sorcery. So far, none exist.

There are certainly a few claiming to be! Do you feel they all fall short, then?

They are D&D with a few S&S trappings. That's it.

NONE of them allow you to just run a solo fighter or rogue and adventure all day, fighting giant monsters and powerful mages. They are all designed around your standard D&D party (and most of them include the cleric as a class, which is WAY off).

Quote from: danbuter;613041I'd like an OSR set designed for swords and sorcery. So far, none exist.

Quote from: danbuter;613105They are D&D with a few S&S trappings. That's it.

NONE of them allow you to just run a solo fighter or rogue and adventure all day, fighting giant monsters and powerful mages. They are all designed around your standard D&D party (and most of them include the cleric as a class, which is WAY off).

Did you take a look at Crypts & Things? I have always been very skeptical of claims that "D&D can do Swords & Sorcery fine", but I must say that C&T* has some very good ideas. For example:

-In C&T niche protection isn't as strong as in standard D&D. All characters can backstab, thieves and magicians fight better (thieves get 1d6+1 hp, a bonus to armor class, a bonus for fighting with two weapons, magicians get 1d6 hp, can use leather armor, can use swords, etc), all characters can use skills like disarm traps, climb, hide, etc. Of course, a single character is not as strong as a group of the same level, so he better is high level enough if he wants to survive, but he doesn't depend on a fighter to fight, a thief to disarm traps, a cleric to heal him (more on this later).

-In C&T hit points represent exhaustion and bruises, but not serious wounds (these are represented by CON damage), so after a night rest you can regain all your lost hit points. This means your character doesn't depend on a cleric to heal him.

-There is no cleric class, there is a magician class that conflates the magic of the magic user and the cleric.

What do you think?

EDIT: *= I must give Akrasia credit for his ideas (http://akraticwizardry.blogspot.com.es/2009/07/swords-sorcery-house-rules-index.html).

Quote from: Simlasa;613030I'd be curious to hear/read you expound on that point a bit. Where you think that disconnect is and ways to fix it. Maybe it's just your avatar (and location) that has me thinking you'd have particularly good insights there.

Unfortunately, I find it hard to articulate why D&D stumbles with high fantasy, but let me try.

D&D is all rampant materialism, not just in the central issue of acquiring new and better things and becoming more powerful, but its entire worldview. Because of the way the rules work and because of the ethos permeating its lierary sources, the default D&D setting is all physics and very little metaphysics. Even after you affix alignment labels to the various characters, great events don't hinge on moral conflicts, but physical confrontation. Morality and conviction are not driving forces, they are an accidental factor. Moreover, the outcome of a clash between two sides is a function of power, which means the world does not have an ingrained moral dimension. Morality is not simulated well in the rules and not explored in the common game structures.

To me, good high fantasy is about "wizardry and wild romance", adventures where being right or wrong, determination and internal conviction, great flaws and tragic mistakes, heroic destinies, redemption and fall are all important. High fantasy does not have to focus on "internal" landscapes (maybe they are an interesting area for storygames), and RPGs should be game first and literary emulation second, but to feel "right", a high fantasy game should be infused with a strong moral dimension, where choices are about high stakes, and power isn't the only answer (and when you have it, it comes with great responsibility).

There have been attempts in D&D to do this, but for me, they have usually rung false, because they took the easy way of taking the D&D framework and saying, "okay, these guys are bad and you guys are good, now go forth and kill" (most attempts), or because the morality they presented was dull, milquetoast and/or offensive (Dragonlance). There are a variety of social mechanics like hero points which do a decent job, but in a way, they tend to become another resource management issue, a part of the whole adventuring economy. And economy is once again about the material.

It is more interesting to play a good guy who isn't just good because the character sheet says so and he goes on quests against enemies who are identified evil, but because he is generous, just, and does the good thing even if it is not convenient or easy. It is more of a thing to aid the villagers against the Dark Riders if there is a stake involved beyond victory or defeat. For example, what if Isengrim the Bold falls in battle, and his sister, Hella the Fair has to pick up his sword from the battle site, taking up with it his heroic destiny (i.e. his levels minus one?), but having to pay the price of his failure to protect the innocents (in a way that had long-lasting impact)? That sort of thing, I feel, is somehow more essential to high fantasy than the massively overplayed "Hero's Journey" concept. I would like to see that captured in a game.

Now, I love old school D&D's amoral and morally relativistic assumptions, and also think it is interesting to explore what happens to morality in a world that doesn't respect it. Both of those feature in my games. But I'd be interested in seeing a good alternative that showed me how to incorporate high fantasy themes into vaguely D&Dish adventure fantasy games. I have a hunch this would take going back to the roots, examining which of these goals goes where, and rebuilding certain assumptions from the ground up, resulting in a game that would be very simple, very familiar, yet very new and strange. Maybe someone some day will do it.

Quote from: The Butcher;613035I'd lump ACKS with SWN: nothing strictly new but a comprehensive toolbox for those who want to get into the nitty-gritty of high-level domain management. Rebuilding the game from the ground up around this was more or less the authors' mission statement.

On a related topic, have you looked into An Echo Resounding (no links. Fucking phone) by SWN's own Kevin Crawford? It's a simpler, shorter, and most importantly, modular and supplementary take on domain management.

You may be right; I may be judging ACKS unfairly. But the reason I am doing it is, ACKS is paradoxically too close to the games I already enjoy to make me buy and try it. I will check out An Echo Resounding's take on domain management, although my own game already has that (although that part never got translated into English).

Quote from: danbuter;613105They are D&D with a few S&S trappings. That's it.

NONE of them allow you to just run a solo fighter or rogue and adventure all day, fighting giant monsters and powerful mages. They are all designed around your standard D&D party (and most of them include the cleric as a class, which is WAY off).

That's a good point; clerics are a big departure from S&S. Replacing them with AD&Dish Illusionists (who are suitably close to the sorcerers in Conan and other S&S tales) is a simple rule to bring D&D one step closer to the genre, even if much would still be missing.

It would be hard to do something about the party, though. RPGs are collaborative games, and you can't simply do away with that.

As most people said, I am pretty happy with what I have (I will probably using some sort of self done hack of a combination of Blood & Treasure, BX or BECMI, E6, and ACKS with my own modifications around magic for my rules set). I would also like to see more modular rule set modifications, because those are often things I can use or at least get ideas from.  

However, in contrast to what others have said, I really don't have much use for settings or adventures. I really want to make those myself and don't really need more inspiration than I have already from previously published stuff (the only setting that I can say I will be even getting any setting inspiration from is Mystara though).  Most of my inspiration comes from published or filmed fiction (Clark Ashton Smith, JRR Tolkien, Jack Vance, Roger Zelazny - Amber, Jack Kirby - The Eternals, and Twin Peaks mostly with maybe a bit of LOST thrown in). Probably some nonfiction too, as much as you can say myths and legends and that sort of thing are nonfiction.

I'm also a "give me more material, less rules" guy, but don't get me wrong, someone comes up with a new game mechanic that works better for what I need, I'll grab it.  Sometimes rule sets are also more then the sum of their parts, this can particularly be true with OSR/OGL games.

Melan, I'd be interested in how you think you could turn those high fantasy ideas into mechanics without heading down Storygame Alley.

Quote from: CRKrueger;613428Melan, I'd be interested in how you think you could turn those high fantasy ideas into mechanics without heading down Storygame Alley.

Me too, but I haven't thought about it seriously from the mechanical POV. I would like to see someone tackle the subject and do it justice.

I am currently focusing on a game about picaresque adventures at the turn of the 17th and 18th centuries, set in a not-quite-historically-accurate Europe. Basically, a game about stagecoaches, wig-wearing bandits, soldiers-of-fortune in baggy pants with halberds, killer nutcrackers, wandering students treating with the Devil, dark forests with talking wolves and so on. The basic mechanics and the structure of the rules would be familiar to D&D players, and it is about adventuring in a strange and dangerous world, but the end result is a significant departure from D&D (alignment, magic, the basic classes have all been revised, for example). This is even so the assumptions of picaresque map wonderfully to D&D's basic framework.

With a high fantasy hack, you would need to change less about the trappings (guy with a sword --> guy with a sword), but more about the basic assumptions of the game. It is less work, but harder.

I would like to see a clone, or hack of "Top Secret SI". Althought "Mercs, Spys, and Private Eyes" sounds like it might fit the bill nicely. Though I get the feeling that it might not be good for a gritty John le Carré, Len Deighton, The Sandbaggers, Queen and Country type of game.

I've already written mine.

I wanted a sci-fi D&D. One that didn't ditch the play structure of the dungeon the second laser pistols got involved.

So I wrote Hulks and Horrors.  And it's fantastic.  The playtest was one of the best games I've run in years.

This year will be about getting the draft to second phase and seeing it published.

WFRP 1e/2e -based rules modified for Cowboys. Really, anything that's not another D&D plus anything the baseline rules haven't been used for very much yet. The 'nother D&Ds and 'nother-genre D&Ds are starting to run out of new ground to cover (short of heavy mechanical tinkering, at which point: why clone?).

Quote from: AnthonyRoberson;613019I would really dig a good OSR style Western RPG or some well researched historical supplements. I have started working on a campaign myself based in a sort of weird fantasy influenced English Civil War.

Hmm, a western could be good.

As could some more historical settings.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;613771Hmm, a western could be good.

As could some more historical settings.

RPGPundit

Yes, I've thought about writing one of these as well. I did a lot of writing and research for PIG's Coyote Trail that never made it into the final book. Or we could approach Brett about doing a conversion, but I don't get the feeling he's a big fan of old school play. . . :)

I'm happy with Labyrinth Lord. My group is running pretty smoothly with only a few minor house rules, and I'm basically publishing some of the better adventures I've sent them on.

I'm currently working on additions to my Amherth campaign setting, published for Labyrinth Lord. A job promotion has set back my release schedule quite a bit, but I'm still chugging along, writing up the nation gazetteers. I recently published Ghoul Keep and the Ghoul Lands (see sig) which is a fantasy horror mini-setting that can be dropped into virtually any campaign since it details an isolated kingdom surrounded by mountains. But it was mainly a test run to set up a nation-building template for the other gazeteers.

I've toyed with the idea of making (yet another) Dreamwalker conversion, this time using old school rules, but really, I'm thinking a "systemless" primer to dream-based adventures might see greater use.

I've also toyed with the idea of an old school Gangs of New York setting, which I think would be cool. And I've even considered a conversion of my Vice Squad: Miami Nights setting, but as was talked about in another thread, it seems to be hard to drum up interest in playing mundane characters, even over-the-top 80s kind of mundane characters unless you add some kind of kewl powerz or supernatural abilities into the game. At least, that's been my experience in gaming and publishing.  

Pete

I'm working on one thats sort of half-OSR/half a take on Mazes and Minotaurs called Druids& Dolmens which assumes a Celtic myth-based retro game.

Outside of specifically OSR, two systems I'd love retro-clones for would be DC Heroes and Victory's James Bond 007 system.

Quote from: Melan;613167Unfortunately, I find it hard to articulate why D&D stumbles with high fantasy, but let me try....

To me, good high fantasy is about "wizardry and wild romance", adventures where being right or wrong, determination and internal conviction, great flaws and tragic mistakes, heroic destinies, redemption and fall are all important. High fantasy does not have to focus on "internal" landscapes (maybe they are an interesting area for storygames), and RPGs should be game first and literary emulation second, but to feel "right", a high fantasy game should be infused with a strong moral dimension, where choices are about high stakes, and power isn't the only answer (and when you have it, it comes with great responsibility).

maybe Pendragon?

Quote from: Melan;613167I'd be interested in seeing a good alternative that showed me how to incorporate high fantasy themes into vaguely D&Dish adventure fantasy games. I have a hunch this would take going back to the roots, examining which of these goals goes where, and rebuilding certain assumptions from the ground up, resulting in a game that would be very simple, very familiar, yet very new and strange. Maybe someone some day will do it.

Interesting. By 'going back to the roots' you mean the more original, older forms of high fantasy fiction. If so, which books?

It would be strange and might not resemble D&D. I think the game would have to take a step towards more colourful stats such Honour, Glory, Perfidy and elements of Romance, including love, should feature strongly although I have never seen an example of this as a game mechanic.

Quote from: TristramEvans;613970I'm working on one thats sort of half-OSR/half a take on Mazes and Minotaurs called Druids& Dolmens which assumes a Celtic myth-based retro game.

That sounds intriguing...

What kind of OSR-RPG do I want ?

Quote from: Melan;613436I am currently focusing on a game about picaresque adventures at the turn of the 17th and 18th centuries, set in a not-quite-historically-accurate Europe. Basically, a game about stagecoaches, wig-wearing bandits, soldiers-of-fortune in baggy pants with halberds, killer nutcrackers, wandering students treating with the Devil, dark forests with talking wolves and so on.

That one !

Not sure it's old school but a retro clone of the DC Heroes MEGs game with all the numbers (or at least the lawyer baiting fluff) filed off. I reckon you can slice the page count to a third (so, 182 to 60 pages) if you ditch all but the rules. Then setting books, modules etc to add as you need (for Marvel, Dc, Wildstorm universes, all fan made and not for sale).

The rules could do with a little tweak (ditch the tables easily done) and clean up a few of the powers (a lot of energy attack style powers can simply be listed under the same heading with different effects and link attributes with a slight change in base cost for each). Maybe factor costs up to 20, instead of rolling round the table again, and skills modular, so you start with one subskill and add each subskill as required, thus making skills somewhat less scarily expensive.

That said a character maker like Mike Love's old one (here (http://dc.darkalliance.org/)) is a godsend for keeping track of points for those of us too lazy to write it all down.

Also no succubi in bondage gear art. Blood of Heroes, I'm looking at you (though not too closely - my eyes! They bleed!)

Quote from: Planet Algolmaybe Pendragon?

Quote from: Prince Lordly Manly Man;614055Interesting. By 'going back to the roots' you mean the more original, older forms of high fantasy fiction. If so, which books?

It would be strange and might not resemble D&D. I think the game would have to take a step towards more colourful stats such Honour, Glory, Perfidy and elements of Romance, including love, should feature strongly although I have never seen an example of this as a game mechanic.

Pendragon is the obvious pick for Arthurian gaming, but a more general high fantasy game would need something different. Pendragon's Passions are a possible model to handle heroic characters and their interests, and they are additions to a basically simulation-oriented game. Player freedom is an issue here; add too many rules like this and you are engaging in railroading through social mechanics.

The high fantasy that comes to my mind is mostly Tolkien, MacDonald (Phantastes), Dunsany (at least The King of Elfland's Daughter), and their successors. Maybe Eddison and White (The Once and Future King, which I probably read too early to like). I have read too little modern high fantasy to know the good stuff. And anyway, a high fantasy game would have to be 'like all high fantasy and none of it', the way D&D is to S&S.

Quote from: Melan;613436I am currently focusing on a game about picaresque adventures at the turn of the 17th and 18th centuries, set in a not-quite-historically-accurate Europe. Basically, a game about stagecoaches, wig-wearing bandits, soldiers-of-fortune in baggy pants with halberds, killer nutcrackers, wandering students treating with the Devil, dark forests with talking wolves and so on. The basic mechanics and the structure of the rules would be familiar to D&D players, and it is about adventuring in a strange and dangerous world, but the end result is a significant departure from D&D (alignment, magic, the basic classes have all been revised, for example). This is even so the assumptions of picaresque map wonderfully to D&D's basic framework.

I would totally buy that. If you start a thread to discuss your ideas on this, I'd love to read it.

As for what I'd like to see in OSR that doesn't exist yet, does 2nd Edition D&D count as old school? I'd like to see its patchwork quilt of rules and kits and whatnot condensed down into the bare necessities with all the inconsistencies and gaps fixed. I've skimmed a couple of attempts at retrocloning (I think?) 2e, but I can't remember what they were.

Quote from: Dana;614358I would totally buy that. If you start a thread to discuss your ideas on this, I'd love to read it.

As for what I'd like to see in OSR that doesn't exist yet, does 2nd Edition D&D count as old school? I'd like to see its patchwork quilt of rules and kits and whatnot condensed down into the bare necessities with all the inconsistencies and gaps fixed. I've skimmed a couple of attempts at retrocloning (I think?) 2e, but I can't remember what they were.

I'd really like to see more 2e stuff also.

Not a full game but maybe an expansion to OSRIC or LL to bring in the bits of 2e that are different.

I want a cross between Player's Option and Rules Cyclopedia with very selective inclusion of 4e elements, like at-will powers and ritual magic.

Quote from: Viktyr Gehrig;614376I want a cross between Player's Option and Rules Cyclopedia with very selective inclusion of 4e elements, like at-will powers and ritual magic.

You're the first person I've ever run into who's been interested in retrocloning Player's Option. I like the system, myself, but I gather that it's not all that popular. :-)

Quote from: Dana;614382You're the first person I've ever run into who's been interested in retrocloning Player's Option. I like the system, myself, but I gather that it's not all that popular. :-)

Some parts could be fixed, IME. Particularly "Spells and Magic" had some good ideas. In fact I think S&P is often unfairly overlooked because of it's association with the other two books.

(https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS1Q8qRPmsyjcHpKDYGF-t-KRJ-jUxcrP_y-J71-5PtonK0Uyt_UA)

Quote from: Bradford C. Walker;614419This one (https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS1Q8qRPmsyjcHpKDYGF-t-KRJ-jUxcrP_y-J71-5PtonK0Uyt_UA) (which I am linking to because it's a fucking huge image), and I am surprised that it has not been done yet.  (If I am wrong, please link to where I can get it below.)

Very much yes.

http://www.travellersrd.com

Somebody get to work.

Quote from: Dana;614382You're the first person I've ever run into who's been interested in retrocloning Player's Option. I like the system, myself, but I gather that it's not all that popular. :-)

If 2e is the redheaded stepchild of TSR, Player's Option is the two-headed stepchild.

There are pretty much only two things wrong with Skills & Powers:

• Subabilities.
• Dart specialization with the Throwing proficiency.

Likewise, there's really only three things wrong with Spells & Magic:

• Specialty priests.
• Specialty priests.
• Specialty priests.

Quote from: Piestrio;614389Some parts could be fixed, IME. Particularly "Spells and Magic" had some good ideas. In fact I think S&P is often unfairly overlooked because of it's association with the other two books.

Quote from: Viktyr Gehrig;614426If 2e is the redheaded stepchild of TSR, Player's Option is the two-headed stepchild.

There are pretty much only two things wrong with Skills & Powers:

• Subabilities.
• Dart specialization with the Throwing proficiency.

Likewise, there's really only three things wrong with Spells & Magic:

• Specialty priests.
• Specialty priests.
• Specialty priests.

There are cool ideas throughout the books, and I like the toolkit or even cafeteria approach to building characters. A good retroclone could resolve the conflicts in the skill-buys, for example, and fill in some of the parts that seem sorta unfinished. I think a really powerful, cool system could be built by getting rid of the fluff and resolving the inconsistencies.

I've been giving some thought to this in the last few days, actually, and debating the merits with my S.O. on what'd need to go, what'd need to be fixed, etc. We figured we'd be the only ones who'd ever play it. :-)

Quote from: Dana;614382You're the first person I've ever run into who's been interested in retrocloning Player's Option. I like the system, myself, but I gather that it's not all that popular. :-)

Player's Option is great (as an idea), but it needs to be drastically cleaned up and balanced. But I do like it.

Is there a retro clone out there with a Steampunk aesthetic?  Because I'd like to see that!

Quote from: Piestrio;614420Very much yes.

http://www.travellersrd.com

Somebody get to work.

Expeditious Retreat Press have had a go:

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-76jZjhzaeI0/UEIHeqKcGBI/AAAAAAAAAZU/2VmceYAs5Gw/s400/Worlds+Apart+Final+Front+Cover+Blog+JPEG.jpg)


FREE version here ! (http://www.rpgnow.com/product/105341/Worlds-Apart---Free-Version)

Quote from: Libertad;614453Is there a retro clone out there with a Steampunk aesthetic?  Because I'd like to see that!

Engines & Empires used Labyrinth Lord as a basis, I believe. You can check it out here (http://www.lulu.com/spotlight/jack_daniel_327).

Quote from: Melan;613007

• Something which adapts D&D (or potentially some other system) to a new cultural milieu while retaining accessibility. Arrows of Indra and Spears of Dawn are both experients in this direction, and I await them with interest.
  

I think a game based on Aguirre The Wrath of God could fit old-school game mechanics well. Check out the precis of the plot here:

http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aguirre,_the_Wrath_of_God (http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aguirre,_the_Wrath_of_God)

Quote from: Sacrificial Lamb;614433Player's Option is great (as an idea), but it needs to be drastically cleaned up and balanced. But I do like it.

That is rather my take.  A lot of good ideas but the balance was off.  A good launching point for ideas but a bad book to give to a 3.X era optimizer.

Quote from: Sean !;614472Expeditious Retreat Press have had a go:

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-76jZjhzaeI0/UEIHeqKcGBI/AAAAAAAAAZU/2VmceYAs5Gw/s400/Worlds+Apart+Final+Front+Cover+Blog+JPEG.jpg)


FREE version here ! (http://www.rpgnow.com/product/105341/Worlds-Apart---Free-Version)

Thanks for the link! :)

Quote from: Bradford C. Walker;614419(https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS1Q8qRPmsyjcHpKDYGF-t-KRJ-jUxcrP_y-J71-5PtonK0Uyt_UA)

This has been done now, its called Worlds Apart.

RPGPundit

Quote from: Sean !;614472FREE version here ! (http://www.rpgnow.com/product/105341/Worlds-Apart---Free-Version)

Is there a freaking free version that doesn't involve me having to sign up to RPGnow?

Wish they'd send me a review copy...

RPGPundit

Quote from: Glazer;614494I think a game based on Aguirre The Wrath of God could fit old-school game mechanics well. Check out the precis of the plot here:

http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aguirre,_the_Wrath_of_God (http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aguirre,_the_Wrath_of_God)

Aguirre is excellent, but I don't know how "you slowly go mad while you get hunted down by invisible opponents" would map to an RPG. Not to mention if we reverse the equation and let Aguirre and pals get their hands on the natives and their gold. That game already exists and it is named Carcosa. ;)

Does anyone think there's still room for more gonzo fantasy?

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;615443Does anyone think there's still room for more gonzo fantasy?

RPGPundit

I think after a year or four all the obvious genres will be covered and it won't be about covering the genre (low hanging fruit) it'll be about just making something distinctive and good and worthwhile in any genre.

Like I'm guessing Jeff Rients' Broodmother Sky Fortress will be "Yet another gonzo OSR dungeon" but it'll also be totally awesome and worth buying, labels or no.

I'm pondering an OD&D variant about gay feline cowboys.

Quote from: Melan;615084Aguirre is excellent, but I don't know how "you slowly go mad while you get hunted down by invisible opponents" would map to an RPG.

I must admit my thinking was rather more simplistic – the players are a party of Conquistadors searching for the Lost City of Gold in a hostile and rather alien environment. Though now you say it, a simple set of sanity rules along the line of those used in CoC would be a nice addition to such a game :)

Quote from: RPGPundit;615443Does anyone think there's still room for more gonzo fantasy?

RPGPundit

Hell yeah.

I've been debating the merits of starting a trippy post-apocalyptic science fantasy OD&D campaign myself, a la Planet Algol or The Metal Earth. There's surprising little support in print for that: there's Carcosa with its... peculiarities, and Anomalous Subsurface Environment, and that's all I know of.

All for the best, though; making up new classes and monsters, and tweaking existing subsystems, is part of the fun.

Quote from: RPGPundit;615443Does anyone think there's still room for more gonzo fantasy?

Definitely! Towers of Krshal was one of my favourite products in 2012, not to mention AES2 (haven't read yet - IRL work has killed off my free time lately). Interesting off-the-wall settings and adventures are always welcome. I am planning one myself for Fight On! #15.

Quote from: RPGPundit;612983So, what kind of OSR game would you like to see that doesn't yet exist?  Be it a specific kind of "retro clone" or an OSR take on a particular genre, or setting type, or an OSR treatment of a specific license?  Or a particular kind of mechanical emphasis (the way, say, ACKS put an emphasis on dominion-management)?

RPGPundit

Nope, everything I want is covered.

Quote from: The Butcher;615464Hell yeah.

I've been debating the merits of starting a trippy post-apocalyptic science fantasy OD&D campaign myself,

I've been considering something similar.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;615443Does anyone think there's still room for more gonzo fantasy?

RPGPundit

Hell yeah!

I just received Anomalous Subsurface Environment part 2-3 and it's great.

I think we have more than enough great rules sets, I want to see more content - dungeons, cities,settings, adventures.

Quote from: Kaiu Keiichi;616350I think we have more than enough great rules sets, I want to see more content - dungeons, cities,settings, adventures.

I'd definitely like to see more 32-page (or shorter) adventures. And a new fantasy setting that people are free to build in, subject to some kind of open license, would be awesome.

That hasn't stopped me from noodling around with yet another retroclone, though. :-) I'm trying to see how *few* pages I can use to document a full system. Probably more of an intellectual exercise than anything else.

I am working on two retro-whatevers.

The first project is my take on S&W:WB based on decades of house rules for OD&D and a great DS9 style-setting I have been using for years for when I want to play basics of genre standard fantasy but with my own approach.

The second project is a bizarre fever dream where I combine OD&D and Gamma World and Diablo and this one has taken so many iterations. I have playtested various versions and the current one is looking good so far. Unlike most open settings, this one has a definite "story arc" built into the game akin to Savage Worlds setting books.

Is there a market for either? Who knows? Right now, I am more interested in finishing and playtesting.

Good, short (about 32 page long) adventures are always helpful, useful and direly needed. We're already drowning in rulesets, we need adventures.

Quote from: danbuter;613041I'd like an OSR set designed for swords and sorcery. So far, none exist.

Crypts and Things.  :D

(Perhaps not perfect, but it is designed for swords and sorcery, and it most definitely does exist...)

Quote from: Claudius;613149Did you take a look at Crypts & Things? I have always been very skeptical of claims that "D&D can do Swords & Sorcery fine", but I must say that C&T* has some very good ideas. For example:

-In C&T niche protection isn't as strong as in standard D&D. All characters can backstab, thieves and magicians fight better (thieves get 1d6+1 hp, a bonus to armor class, a bonus for fighting with two weapons, magicians get 1d6 hp, can use leather armor, can use swords, etc), all characters can use skills like disarm traps, climb, hide, etc. Of course, a single character is not as strong as a group of the same level, so he better is high level enough if he wants to survive, but he doesn't depend on a fighter to fight, a thief to disarm traps, a cleric to heal him (more on this later).

-In C&T hit points represent exhaustion and bruises, but not serious wounds (these are represented by CON damage), so after a night rest you can regain all your lost hit points. This means your character doesn't depend on a cleric to heal him.

-There is no cleric class, there is a magician class that conflates the magic of the magic user and the cleric.

What do you think?

EDIT: *= I must give Akrasia credit for his ideas (http://akraticwizardry.blogspot.com.es/2009/07/swords-sorcery-house-rules-index.html).

Thanks man! :)

I'd just like the folks turning out Backswords & Bucklers to up their pace a bit.

Two words, guys: Sea Dogs!

I've also been thinking some Nordic-inspired fantasy would be nice.

It's not the linkbait that gay kitten cowboys would be, but I do find it a neglected aesthetic in games.

Quote from: Imperator;616624Good, short (about 32 page long) adventures are always helpful, useful and direly needed. We're already drowning in rulesets, we need adventures.

I agree, but my insatiable vanity yearns to publish my own rules for no damn good reason. However, I will be combining the rules with a setting and I will be putting several short adventures into the book.

In playtesting the setting and some variant rules, I have run various events at cons and FLGS, often the same game several times, so I have several that I am turning into adventures that I will put in the book.

My hope is that people who buy the book use it wholesale or still be happy with their purchase if they just yank out bits.

Quote from: J Arcane;616797I've also been thinking some Nordic-inspired fantasy would be nice.

Do you mean actual nordic fantasy like from folklore, or do you mean like from people's ideas about viking death metal?

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;617275do you mean like from people's ideas about viking death metal?

A truly gonzo Viking Metal game could be cool for a lark, in a Brütal-Legend-meets-Macho-Women-With-Guns kind of way.

Not an epic campaign, but a really fun 1-shot or short series.

Quote from: RPGPundit;617275Do you mean actual nordic fantasy like from folklore, or do you mean like from people's ideas about viking death metal?

RPGPundit

I mean like an actual Nordic feel and aesthetic, and yes, actual inspiration from Nordic folklore.

I'd fictionalize, I think, because it would give me more freedom to do what I do.

The biggest thing I think that would be hard if trying to go the D&D adventure route is that D&D adventure is heavily based on a post-Roman medieval assumption of a previous civilization having been present.

Quote from: Imperator;616624Good, short (about 32 page long) adventures are always helpful, useful and direly needed. We're already drowning in rulesets, we need adventures.

I love writing adventures. The problem is they don't sell as well as other products, mainly because you're only selling to gms for the most part as opposed to gms and players. What I make from an adventure usually goes right back into art and maps for the next adventure in an amusing little cycle.

Pete

Quote from: J Arcane;617286I mean like an actual Nordic feel and aesthetic, and yes, actual inspiration from Nordic folklore.

I'd fictionalize, I think, because it would give me more freedom to do what I do.

The biggest thing I think that would be hard if trying to go the D&D adventure route is that D&D adventure is heavily based on a post-Roman medieval assumption of a previous civilization having been present.

I'd love to see something done for old-school that actually tried to make a magic system based on nordic ideas on magic, especially the runes.

RPGPundit

We know fairly little about Nordic ideas on magic, I'm afraid.

A Viking OSR setting would probably sell better than a Viking-specific retro-clone imo.

GURPs Magic for 3rd edition had a pretty decent Norse Rune-based magic system.

Quote from: P&P;617665We know fairly little about Nordic ideas on magic, I'm afraid.

A Viking OSR setting would probably sell better than a Viking-specific retro-clone imo.

If I were doing a Nordic setting, I probably wouldn't use Vikings as the chief inspiration, honestly.

There's more to the north lands than just the Vikings.

Quote from: J Arcane;617675If I were doing a Nordic setting, I probably wouldn't use Vikings as the chief inspiration, honestly.

There's more to the north lands than just the Vikings.

Hmm, like?

Do you mean more to the Northlands then the raiding that was done during raiding season? Yeah there was a lot more.

Or do you mean more then just the people we think of as the Norse and are talking about the Sami, Finns, etc?

A game with Rus Explorers blazing the first Volga route would be pretty crazyass.

Quote from: CRKrueger;617680Hmm, like?

Do you mean more to the Northlands then the raiding that was done during raiding season? Yeah there was a lot more.

Or do you mean more then just the people we think of as the Norse and are talking about the Sami, Finns, etc?

A game with Rus Explorers blazing the first Volga route would be pretty crazyass.

The Viking period is only one section of the history, just a few centuries out of many.  

Hell, many of the mythological and aesthetic elements that people associate even with the Vikings themselves actually predate them significantly.

If I were to do it, I'd probably base it on earlier pre-Viking times and playing up a "hardy folk surviving an inhospitable clime" element, or if I wanted to stick with the D&D playstyle, perhaps set it post-Vikings of a sort, leaving open the possibility of leftover spoils to be found from previous wars.

The former I think would offer greater mythological inspiration, while the latter could be used as inspiration for an "old way vs. new foreign faith" element of the setting.

And Finns and Sami are woefully neglected for inspiration, though in fairness this is partly because so much of their lore is oral histories that have large chunks missing, or the relentlessly dry poetics of the Kalevala.  Tolkien took significant inspiration from the Kalevala, and Forgotten Realms writers love to nick Finnish names for things, but mostly that's it.  

And more generally, there's just that sense of Nordic stoicism and bleakness that never seems to get captured, because people focus so heavily on the Viking "warrior race" idea and forget the hundreds of years of history where that wasn't really the case.

Quote from: J Arcane;617675If I were doing a Nordic setting, I probably wouldn't use Vikings as the chief inspiration, honestly.

There's more to the north lands than just the Vikings.

Okay.  My point is that it'd be better as a setting than as a RPG in its own right, that's all.

I do think the Vikings are more interesting than Migration Period Scandinavia, though.

Quote from: P&P;617687Okay.  My point is that it'd be better as a setting than as a RPG in its own right, that's all.

I do think the Vikings are more interesting than Migration Period Scandinavia, though.

I'd just as soon work with the rules I'm most familiar with, which would be the Hulks and Horrors system I wrote personally.

So if this were OSR, it would most certainly use that.

Quote from: P&P;617665We know fairly little about Nordic ideas on magic, I'm afraid.

Yes and no.  There's a huge amount of stuff we don't know or that's lost.  There's also a shitload of stuff that's been studied and continues to be learned, including rather recently.

For example, we know WAY more about nordic magic than we do about original celtic magic.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;618041Yes and no.  There's a huge amount of stuff we don't know or that's lost.  There's also a shitload of stuff that's been studied and continues to be learned, including rather recently.

For example, we know WAY more about nordic magic than we do about original celtic magic.

This is intriguing.

Any sources you can point us towards?

Quote from: RPGPundit;618041For example, we know WAY more about nordic magic than we do about original celtic magic.

RPGPundit

This is certainly true.  Mind you, we probably know more about the planets of Upsilon Andromedae, or the life forms of the Mariana Trench, than we do about original Celtic magic.

Quote from: The Butcher;618048Any sources you can point us towards?

For example:-

http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=5316491216&searchurl=isbn%3D041525650x

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=gjq6rvoIRpAC&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_navlinks_s&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false

Quote from: The Butcher;618048This is intriguing.

Any sources you can point us towards?

Stephen Flowers, Stephan Grundy, Jenny Blain, Jan Fries, Freya Aswyn; also, a bit dated but H.R. Ellis Davidson and Georges Dumezil.  Of course, a lot of the people researching and writing about norse magic are people who publicly or secretly practice it.  But unlike their equivalent "celtic pagans" or the like, most of these actually do have PhDs on the subject.

There are of course, shitloads of stuff being done in german academia, which I wouldn't be qualified to list by name.  But I know this has become more true of late, with this being the first generation in german academia since the war where being interested in old german magic or religion isn't immediately tainted by Nazi esoteric bullshit.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;617643I'd love to see something done for old-school that actually tried to make a magic system based on nordic ideas on magic, especially the runes.

RPGPundit

Don't want to be too pimpy as I mostly just lurk here, but I've been working on an Anglo-Saxon/Migration Period setting for Swords & Wizardry: Whitebox. It's called Redwald.

Here's the write up for the rune casting rules (http://redwald.blogspot.co.uk/2010/12/dweorgas-rune-magic.html) and the meaning/uses of the runes (http://redwald.blogspot.co.uk/2010/12/dweorgas-runes.html). I thought I'd posted the write of the class (Dweorgas Wyrdwebba) but I can't seem to find it.

Quote from: Weru;618657an Anglo-Saxon/Migration Period setting for Swords & Wizardry: Whitebox. It's called Redwald.

I pimped/mentioned your game in the master list thread (http://www.therpgsite.com/showpost.php?p=611233&postcount=95).

What are your plans for publication? Will it be a print product (PoD)? Just a setting or a stand alone Whitebox variant?

Quote from: Dirk Remmecke;618683I pimped/mentioned your game in the master list thread (http://www.therpgsite.com/showpost.php?p=611233&postcount=95).

Ta very much!

QuoteWhat are your plans for publication? Will it be a print product (PoD)? Just a setting or a stand alone Whitebox variant?

At the minute just get a draft finished, then prolly a cheap Ashcan edition. Not sure after that, but Christopher Brandon wants to do a Redwald supplement for his Heroes & Other Worlds TFT clone so that version will be PoD and PDF.

I'd like to see a clone that specifically emulates ad&D's Oriental Adventures. I loved that book and one of my favorite PC's was a Kensai (albeit in 2e as a ranger with a Kensai kit.)

I want a D&D where each class has a menu of abilities that they can choose one each level and you choose from the same menu at, say, 5th level as you would at 1st level.  I want it to have a separate Monster Manual with pictures for each critter that basically follows the same monster fluff we all know.  And perhaps most important, I do not want it designed such that you hunt down +1 from this ability, +2 from that ability.

If this exists, somebody will likely get some of my cash.

Quote from: Old One Eye;618895I want a D&D where each class has a menu of abilities that they can choose one each level and you choose from the same menu at, say, 5th level as you would at 1st level.  I want it to have a separate Monster Manual with pictures for each critter that basically follows the same monster fluff we all know.  And perhaps most important, I do not want it designed such that you hunt down +1 from this ability, +2 from that ability.

If this exists, somebody will likely get some of my cash.

Thats pretty much DungeonWorld. Which isnt exactly OSR, but close enough.

Quote from: TristramEvans;618897Thats pretty much DungeonWorld. Which isnt exactly OSR, but close enough.

Might just be the review I read, but that doesn't sound much like traditional D&D.  DM never rolls dice, 2d6 for actions, bonds with other characters, adventuring gear lets you pull a crowbar out of your ass.

Looking for something a bit more AD&D-like.

Quote from: Old One Eye;618914Might just be the review I read, but that doesn't sound much like traditional D&D.  DM never rolls dice, 2d6 for actions, bonds with other characters, adventuring gear lets you pull a crowbar out of your ass.

Looking for something a bit more AD&D-like.

Yeah, if you play D&D even remotely like I do, then Dungeon World will not scratch that itch.

Quote from: Zak S;618919Yeah, if you play D&D even remotely like I do, then Dungeon World will not scratch that itch.

Not sure about your game, but the thingies you post sound pretty damn familiar.  The way I play, the 1e DMG remains by far the best resource there is.

Quote from: Old One Eye;618914Might just be the review I read, but that doesn't sound much like traditional D&D.  DM never rolls dice, 2d6 for actions, bonds with other characters, adventuring gear lets you pull a crowbar out of your ass.

Looking for something a bit more AD&D-like.

Well the DM never rolling dice is simply a choice, but yes, it is 2d6 rather than a d20 or 3d6 or funky dice. The "bonds with other characters" is nothing but a roleplaying aid. It doesn't affect the game mechanically and is easily ignored if you don't want the characters to have any connections, I guess. No pulling a crowbar out of one's ass from my experience.


Have you taken a gander at Red Box Hack?

Quote from: TristramEvans;618925Well the DM never rolling dice is simply a choice, but yes, it is 2d6 rather than a d20 or 3d6 or funky dice. The "bonds with other characters" is nothing but a roleplaying aid. It doesn't affect the game mechanically and is easily ignored if you don't want the characters to have any connections, I guess. No pulling a crowbar out of one's ass from my experience.


Have you taken a gander at Red Box Hack?

Appreciate the assistance, but I'm a bit too attached to the d20 attack roll to look any further at Dungeonworld.  ;)

Red Box Hack is certainly easy to find and download.  But no, that's not anywhere near what I'm looking for.

I'm basically just looking for AD&D with talent trees grafted onto it, but no fiddly +1 from this +2 from that.  Or perhaps, taking 3rd edition the opposite direction of where Pathfinder went.  

I still want it to be very D&D-ish.  The six ability scores 3-18, a spell list that looks similar to the AD&D spell list, hit points and AC, a good 10 or so classes to choose from.

Quote from: Old One Eye;618947Appreciate the assistance, but I'm a bit too attached to the d20 attack roll to look any further at Dungeonworld.  ;)

Red Box Hack is certainly easy to find and download.  But no, that's not anywhere near what I'm looking for.

I'm basically just looking for AD&D with talent trees grafted onto it, but no fiddly +1 from this +2 from that.  Or perhaps, taking 3rd edition the opposite direction of where Pathfinder went.  

I still want it to be very D&D-ish.  The six ability scores 3-18, a spell list that looks similar to the AD&D spell list, hit points and AC, a good 10 or so classes to choose from.

Well, I hesitate to recommend this, but as much as DungeonWorld probably isn't your cup of tea, you might look at it to simply lift a few things your looking for (like the list of benefits to choose from each level). Porting them to any edition of D&d (not including 4th obviously) would be a snap.

Quote from: Old One Eye;618947Appreciate the assistance, but I'm a bit too attached to the d20 attack roll to look any further at Dungeonworld.  ;)

Red Box Hack is certainly easy to find and download.  But no, that's not anywhere near what I'm looking for.

I'm basically just looking for AD&D with talent trees grafted onto it, but no fiddly +1 from this +2 from that.  Or perhaps, taking 3rd edition the opposite direction of where Pathfinder went.  

I still want it to be very D&D-ish.  The six ability scores 3-18, a spell list that looks similar to the AD&D spell list, hit points and AC, a good 10 or so classes to choose from.

You tried C&C? Sorry if you already said...

Quote from: Zak S;618950You tried C&C? Sorry if you already said...

I thought C&C did not have talent trees/feats/whatever a game calls them?

Quote from: Old One Eye;618956I thought C&C did not have talent trees/feats/whatever a game calls them?

It does not, but it is verrrry close (and derived from) to 3.5/Path, which does, so you could probably kludge them together pretty easily.

Quote from: Zak S;618961It does not, but it is verrrry close (and derived from) to 3.5/Path, which does, so you could probably kludge them together pretty easily.

For a DIY project, I would just finish what I've piddled around with in grafting some talent trees onto AD&D, but I am a lazy, lazy man.  ;)

Hmmm...seems there may be a hole in the OSR for where I'm looking.

Quote from: Old One Eye;618963For a DIY project, I would just finish what I've piddled around with in grafting some talent trees onto AD&D, but I am a lazy, lazy man.  ;)

Hmmm...seems there may be a hole in the OSR for where I'm looking.

What about this sort of thing:
http://dndwithpornstars.blogspot.com/2012/06/alternate-fighter-for-like-d-and-stuff.html ?

Quote from: Zak S;618964What about this sort of thing:
http://dndwithpornstars.blogspot.com/2012/06/alternate-fighter-for-like-d-and-stuff.html ?

But...but....no Monster Manual integrated into the game....the greatest campaign creation thingamajiggee that was ever thunk.....one of two primary reasons I settled on AD&D as my rpg mainline drug......Lamentations, while great in flavor from what I know of it, is sadly a no go

I want to roll my stats, pick a race, pick a class, pick a class ability from a menu of options, while not having much mathy-maths poking its ugly head up, have an integrated Monster Manual, and everything looking pretty damn similar to my AD&D goodness.

Quote from: Old One Eye;618968But...but....no Monster Manual integrated into the game....the greatest campaign creation thingamajiggee that was ever thunk.....one of two primary reasons I settled on AD&D as my rpg mainline drug......Lamentations, while great in flavor from what I know of it, is sadly a no go

I want to roll my stats, pick a race, pick a class, pick a class ability from a menu of options, while not having much mathy-maths poking its ugly head up, have an integrated Monster Manual, and everything looking pretty damn similar to my AD&D goodness.

That class (and the others I made) are designed to work with any D&D. Though--it's true--you don't pick class abilities, you roll them.

I just LOTFP as a sort of example, but the mechanics are pretty general.

Anyway, if it isn't up your alley, it isn't.

Quote from: Weru;618657Don't want to be too pimpy as I mostly just lurk here, but I've been working on an Anglo-Saxon/Migration Period setting for Swords & Wizardry: Whitebox. It's called Redwald.

Here's the write up for the rune casting rules (http://redwald.blogspot.co.uk/2010/12/dweorgas-rune-magic.html) and the meaning/uses of the runes (http://redwald.blogspot.co.uk/2010/12/dweorgas-rune-magic.html). I thought I'd posted the write of the class (Dweorgas Wyrdwebba) but I can't seem to find it.

That's an interesting take, and a neat attempt to combine runes with vancian casting; though I really don't know if that's the answer, to do that (I'm certainly not aware of anything that said that vitkis only knew one aett at a time, or that they had to use all the other runes in an aett before using the same rune over).  It might be better to go a different route.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;619064That's an interesting take, and a neat attempt to combine runes with vancian casting; though I really don't know if that's the answer, to do that (I'm certainly not aware of anything that said that vitkis only knew one aett at a time, or that they had to use all the other runes in an aett before using the same rune over).  It might be better to go a different route.

RPGPundit

Hadn't really thought of it as Vancian casting? The free form magic of Maelstrom is the main influence.  Why do think it's Vancian?

The fluff mentions that they know all the Runes, but only have full mastery of one Aett when they start. (Haven't posted the class write up yet but they're exiled apprenctices). So they can use 8 different runes at 1st lvl, 16 at 2nd, and 24 at 3rd (There's only three levels in Redwald). I put the limits on because otherwise Rune casting could easily overpower the game, and the other casters in a party. Plus, I thought it would be better to have them work through all the runes, rather than spam the same few over and over.

EDIT: Like an idiot I linked the same page twice in my original post. The page about the Runes and their meanings is here (http://redwald.blogspot.co.uk/2010/12/dweorgas-runes.html).

Quote from: TristramEvans;618925Well the DM never rolling dice is simply a choice, but yes, it is 2d6 rather than a d20 or 3d6 or funky dice. The "bonds with other characters" is nothing but a roleplaying aid. It doesn't affect the game mechanically and is easily ignored if you don't want the characters to have any connections, I guess. No pulling a crowbar out of one's ass from my experience.


Have you taken a gander at Red Box Hack?

So, at this point, you're basically trolling, right?

Because first he tells you that he doesn't want a Storygame, he wants D&D, and then you proceed to suggest to him not one but two storygames?

RPGPundit

Quote from: Old One Eye;618968I want to roll my stats, pick a race, pick a class, pick a class ability from a menu of options, while not having much mathy-maths poking its ugly head up, have an integrated Monster Manual, and everything looking pretty damn similar to my AD&D goodness.

The upcoming Arrows of Indra sounds exactly like this (including having special abilities chosen (or rolled) from a list), and has an integrated monster manual; but of course here you'd need to be OK with the theme of the game being not western medieval fantasy but epic indian fantasy. Its actually pretty similar in execution, though; you're still playing the same kind of adventurers.

RPGPundit

Quote from: Weru;619085I put the limits on because otherwise Rune casting could easily overpower the game, and the other casters in a party. Plus, I thought it would be better to have them work through all the runes, rather than spam the same few over and over.

I figured, but what I might have done is some kind of exhaustion mechanic; also, the possibility of negative effects if you fail your check (which we know was a part of rune magick because of that one story of the vitki who goes to visit a sick girl, and discovers that she's been made more sick because some other half-assed vitki improperly applied the Laguz rune to her).

I'd also suggest that rune magick take time, that it shouldn't be a one-round casting sort of thing.

Finally, it seems like you made the whole thing pretty free-form.  I'd have liked it better perhaps if there was a bunch of low-level effects but specific ones you could "learn" as tricks with individual runes, and then higher-level characters could learn how to make much more powerful bindrunes. I used one not long ago to fix the internet!

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;619117I figured, but what I might have done is some kind of exhaustion mechanic; also, the possibility of negative effects if you fail your check (which we know was a part of rune magick because of that one story of the vitki who goes to visit a sick girl, and discovers that she's been made more sick because some other half-assed vitki improperly applied the Laguz rune to her).

The default failure result is loss of the Rune, plus the lost prep time and any in game conseqeunces of the casting failing. There are optional fumbles for each class, but for the rune caster they just extend the length of time the failed rune is lost for. Maybe it would be a good idea if the fumble created more dire problems as you suggest. (I think I do that for the witches curses)

QuoteI'd also suggest that rune magick take time, that it shouldn't be a one-round casting sort of thing.

Well the default for casting is 1 hour in game prep time, but this can be reduced with penalties (+1 to +3). The default for binding and warding is at least four hours, and for inscribing  it's a day (those tow can't be hurried).

QuoteFinally, it seems like you made the whole thing pretty free-form.

Yup, like I said Maelstrom's magic was the main influence. I wanted one of Redwald's caster classes to use free-form and thought the Runes were a good fit. Anyway, thanks for taking the time to have a look.

Quote from: RPGPundit;619111The upcoming Arrows of Indra sounds exactly like this (including having special abilities chosen (or rolled) from a list), and has an integrated monster manual; but of course here you'd need to be OK with the theme of the game being not western medieval fantasy but epic indian fantasy. Its actually pretty similar in execution, though; you're still playing the same kind of adventurers.

RPGPundit

hmmm....interesting.....any chance for a western supplement?

Quote from: Old One Eye;619349hmmm....interesting.....any chance for a western supplement?

There's no current plan for that, but you never know.

RPGPundit

Quote from: Old One Eye;618968I want to roll my stats, pick a race, pick a class, pick a class ability from a menu of options, while not having much mathy-maths poking its ugly head up, have an integrated Monster Manual, and everything looking pretty damn similar to my AD&D goodness.

Menu of options? I believe those are called feats. Had a lot of fun playing 3.5, which you know the kids call pathfinder now a days. But I digress.:)

Quote from: Ronin;619670Menu of options? I believe those are called feats. Had a lot of fun playing 3.5, which you know the kids call pathfinder now a days. But I digress.:)

There are ways to do "menu of options" that don't end up working like 3.x feats (a dumb way of doing this, IMO).

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;619109So, at this point, you're basically trolling, right?

Because first he tells you that he doesn't want a Storygame, he wants D&D, and then you proceed to suggest to him not one but two storygames?

No, I recommended two RPGs very closely modeled on basic D&D that included elements the poster was asking for. You calling a game a storygame without anything to back it up isn't enough to make it so, just like any RPg using the terminology "story" as an analogy for something in play doesn't make it a storygame.

Quote from: TristramEvans;619921No, I recommended two RPGs very closely modeled on basic D&D that included elements the poster was asking for. You calling a game a storygame without anything to back it up isn't enough to make it so, just like any RPg using the terminology "story" as an analogy for something in play doesn't make it a storygame.

In recent days considerable "backing up" has happened to explain exactly why DW is a storygame, and red box hack is likewise and it'd be easy to do the same. Of course you know that, and you really are just trolling, so go fuck yourself.

RPGPundit

Quote from: TristramEvans;619921No, I recommended two RPGs very closely modeled on basic D&D that included elements the poster was asking for. You calling a game a storygame without anything to back it up isn't enough to make it so, just like any RPg using the terminology "story" as an analogy for something in play doesn't make it a storygame.

I just hope that you stop running your mouth perceiving some slight against your buddy running his most-probably-houseruled DW game and you actually enjoying it to check out the actual Dungeon World material to come to your own conclusion. After all, you readily admitted this very well might be the case on that other thread there:

Quote from: TristramEvans;620005There's a chance, but I'm not certain, as he talked about taking a while to "grok" how the system is supposed to work. But I'm going to read the online game myself before coming to a conclusion.

So, I get it, you played something that was not so far from what you constitute as D&D, and don't consider having played a story game, but that doesn't mean Dungeon World isn't actually such a game, or at least a game involving quite a few authorial-types mechanics, or "moves", which basically indicate it construes the actual game play as an exercise in story-building. Check it out for yourself. Then maybe we'll have an actual exchange that is substantive, instead of just throwing suspicion at each other because we are "just being mean" and shit.