Quote from: 1989;1144981Apologies if there is already thread somewhere on this topic, but I didn't search for it.

After decades of writing my own adventures, I came to the conclusion that it is easier (for me) to write one big megadungeon than a number of smaller dungeons (primarily because I don't need to invent new plots/stories for each new dungeon). The wisdom of Gygax has finally been realized, in a way.

Anyway, what are you favourite megadungeons and why?

The ones I own personally are:

- Return to the Tomb of Horrors
- Night Below
- Dragon Mountain
- Rappan Athuk
- Barrowmaze
- Castle of the Mad Archmage
- Dwimmermount

I haven't played completely through any of them. Night Below and Dragon Mountain were slow starts.

I'm not sure I have a favourite, but the artwork in Barrowmaze (and the illustration book) is really inspiring.

I've run the Temple of Elemental Evil several times, and it is still my favorite as it is only doable in AD&D at the suggested level if the PCs pit one level against the other. So it becomes a game of intrigue, espionage, betrayal, and sabotage. Metzger talks about doing that, but he didn't bring it home, so going that route requires tweaking.

Never liked the nodes, though. If I rerun it, I will replace them with something else. Maybe each node corresponds to an Against the Giants module, with the Lost Caverns as the fourth?

Okay, that sounds fun. Someone run this for me.

Do you guys know any snake man themed megadungeons?

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;1145477Do you guys know any snake man themed megadungeons?

That's oddly specific  

Forbidden Caverns of Archaia has a lizard-man faction, and if you wanted I suppose you could say that the ancient Archaians were actually snake-men.

SS

Quote from: Anthony Pacheco;1145476I've run the Temple of Elemental Evil several times, and it is still my favorite as it is only doable in AD&D at the suggested level if the PCs pit one level against the other. So it becomes a game of intrigue, espionage, betrayal, and sabotage. Metzger talks about doing that, but he didn't bring it home, so going that route requires tweaking.

Never liked the nodes, though. If I rerun it, I will replace them with something else. Maybe each node corresponds to an Against the Giants module, with the Lost Caverns as the fourth?

Okay, that sounds fun. Someone run this for me.

I might have to give T1-4 another try. It didn't work well last time I tried it, but we treated it as a dungeon where you go from room to room, which was a slog. But with decades of additional experience, I'd focus very heavily on the factions, and make it dynamic and responsive to the players. That could be a fun.

Though I'll note we never had that problem B4 The Lost City. Even with inexperienced players and a DM, the factions were great. The factions in T1-4 are not nearly as accessible. It might also require a less than heroic group of PCs, because IIRC, all of the factions are evil. In B4, they were more quirky than anything.

Quote from: Pat;1145513I might have to give T1-4 another try. It didn't work well last time I tried it, but we treated it as a dungeon where you go from room to room, which was a slog. But with decades of additional experience, I'd focus very heavily on the factions, and make it dynamic and responsive to the players. That could be a fun.

Though I'll note we never had that problem B4 The Lost City. Even with inexperienced players and a DM, the factions were great. The factions in T1-4 are not nearly as accessible. It might also require a less than heroic group of PCs, because IIRC, all of the factions are evil. In B4, they were more quirky than anything.

I always found the Moathouse and Hommlet to be the best parts of Temple of Elemental Evil. The rest, for us, was just a slog with too many "gotcha" type rooms randomly thrown in.

I haven't played any of them, but I've read through Dungeon of the Mad Mage, Stonehell, and Dwimmermount.

Dwimmermount is by far my favorite and is the one I intend to run. It has a great campaign setting, and the dungeon really feels like one cohesive megadungeon, instead of 20 different minidungeons all in a row.

One gripe about Dwimmermount is that although there are a lot of interesting connections between the levels, the geometry within the levels themselves is lacking. Just rooms, hallways, and caves. Most egregiously on several levels there will be a crevice or fissure that exists in one room, completely bound by walls of the room. That's just boring design. But the setting, theme, and history of the dungeon is really top notch stuff.

Quote from: TheShadowSpawn;1145516I always found the Moathouse and Hommlet to be the best parts of Temple of Elemental Evil. The rest, for us, was just a slog with too many "gotcha" type rooms randomly thrown in.

The factions are there, but they're really not presented well. Thinking about it, T1-4 might work better with a different framing device.

This is an illustrative example and isn't really intended to be taken seriously, but how about treating it like an espionage mission? The PCs are all secret agents, and have a boss who briefs them before each mission, and gives them specific tasks to accomplish. They're given an outline of the temple and some idea of the factions, with more detail before each mission. Then they're sent in to disrupt or sabotage various plans. The goal is not to go from room to room, or to loot the treasure; it's to subvert, infiltrate, and ultimately destroy.

Maybe instead of being agents, the PCs are undercover in the service of one of Greyhawk's orders of knights. Instead of their boss being a politically adept functionary in a suit who golfs with members of Parliament, their boss could be an an inscrutable archmage in a glittering robe, or an arrogant but kind-hearted noble. Instead of a mission room with a grand conference table ringed with screens displaying maps and personal details, their missions might be handed out in a smoky study while clustered around a crystal ball, or in a library filled with books that jump down and open themselves when needed. They might find their way in through layers of illusions, or mazes of cobwebby secret passages. Instead of a brilliant tech in a labcoat who hands out technological gadgets, an ensorcelled thief or a silent golem might guide them through layers and layers of traps to a vault, where they are allowed to pick certain magical wonders.

Though I would prefer a setup that gives the players more agency, allowing them to choose their own mission from the start. Or perhaps start with highly structured and specific missions, but gradually expand their horizons, throwing more choices back at the PCs as things progress, and giving them more and more freedom to design their own missions. Rumors, surveillance, and contacts would be vital.

Quote from: Pat;1145513I might have to give T1-4 another try. It didn't work well last time I tried it, but we treated it as a dungeon where you go from room to room, which was a slog. But with decades of additional experience, I'd focus very heavily on the factions, and make it dynamic and responsive to the players. That could be a fun.

Though I'll note we never had that problem B4 The Lost City. Even with inexperienced players and a DM, the factions were great. The factions in T1-4 are not nearly as accessible. It might also require a less than heroic group of PCs, because IIRC, all of the factions are evil. In B4, they were more quirky than anything.

Yeah, there is like one sentence (maybe two) that Metzger added about "play one faction against the other."

So I backed waaaaaay up. There are factions all the way back in Hommelt. And the "infiltration and sabotage" angle then makes a huge play. And in the temple itself, the party would frequently run into cults dissing the factions below.

Man, I love B4! How could you not fall in love with this:

[ATTACH=CONFIG]4775[/ATTACH]

Quote from: TheShadowSpawn;1145497That's oddly specific  

Forbidden Caverns of Archaia has a lizard-man faction, and if you wanted I suppose you could say that the ancient Archaians were actually snake-men.

SS

I am running a snakeman based megadungeon and want to add more if the players get deeper. It's not really a megadungeon so much as a three level dungeon that uses the same concepts.

Quote from: Anthony Pacheco;1145606Man, I love B4! How could you not fall in love with this:

I just realized something -- B4 would make a great a Gamma World adventure.

Quote from: Pat;1145654I just realized something -- B4 would make a great a Gamma World adventure.

I was re-reading it yesterday, debating getting the Goodman Games conversion, and never thought of it before, but you're right - hell, I think it might make a better Gamma World adventure than D&D, or an easy conversion to a Pulp game...

In my opinion, the best megadungeon is the one you create, yourself, as part of an ongoing campaign. You'll know it way better than a huge published dungeon you have to learn (and probably modify to suit your campaign and tastes), and it can evolve as the campaign progresses.

Quote from: LiferGamer;1145708I was re-reading it yesterday, debating getting the Goodman Games conversion, and never thought of it before, but you're right - hell, I think it might make a better Gamma World adventure than D&D, or an easy conversion to a Pulp game...

The GG Conversion is great.  I am using it for a B/X-BECMI campaign currently.  They added a ton of stuff for the underground city of Cynidicea.  Almost a 100 pages worth.

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;1145477Do you guys know any snake man themed megadungeons?

I don't know that Caverns of Thracia was snake-man/lizard-man focused, but there was a lizardman god entrapped within one of hte sub-levels, as I recall.   You could consider the Forbidden City from I1 an above-ground mega-dungeon perhaps, I suppose; it introduced the yuan-ti to the game.  

You may also want to check out the various other Set-related dungeons, including Dark Tower, and various titles from Necromancer Games/Frog God Games.  

Allan.

My favorite mehadu geon was probably B2: Keep on the Borderlands.  I liked it because it broke everything up into bite-sized portions that you could run in 1 session.

B4 the Lost City was another great module becauseit had a lot of potential for plot intrigue with the factions. I would re-work the lower levels of the pyramid though.  There seemed to be no rhyme or reason for the monster placement.  Maybe even leave it mostly empty so the players could concentrate on interpreting the murals and carvings on the walls... before they encounter the BBEG at the end.

D1-2: Descent to the Depths of the Earth/Shrine of the Kuo Toa, was great because it incorporated the whole underdark.  You could do whatever you wanted with it.