Is it OSE, ShadowDark, something else?

What is the latest big OSR hotness?

For instance, which one both sells well and is well supported?

I think Shadowdark dominates the more Normie and 5e adjacent player base and OSE dominates among the more hardcore OSR purists. I suspect Shadowdark makes a lot more money.

I think it's unclear right now whether there is one. As far as straight retroclones OSE is the top. S'mon is right that Shadowdark is the outlet for 5e players but I'm not sure how much money it makes. It's definitely the most ascendant one recently. But other than that the pie could be split any number of ways between Kevin Crawford games, DCC, Mork Borg (blech), or something else I'm not thinking of at the moment.

Certainly one of these two.

Dolmenwood is out (or nearly out) and it looks like an improvement over OSE.

I wonder if OSE will take a hit.

It is strange to me, because B/X is probably my favorite D&D but it seems obvious that it needs a few fixes. For example, Dolmenwood fixes the cleric, as did AD&D, BECMI, etc., and it boosts the fighter, like AD&D, BECMI, etc., removes the "slow" tag from big weapons, etc. At it is not quite enough IMO, but it looks better than OSE IMO.

Shadowdark is 5eish and but exactly compatible with 5e because the damage/HP is too different. It is not exactly compatible with B/X either. And it can't be bought in DTRPG, costs $30 for the PDF, and there is no "full" free version that I know of (unlike OSE or even 5e).

So, I don't think it can replace OSE despite its success.

Still, it has some minimalist charm, and lots of support. I find the "talents" in the classes too limited when compared to Dolmenwood, for example, but maybe it is an opportunity for me to sell a SD version of my "Old School Feats", which ahs many more options (but written with B/X or OSE in mind)...

I'd think for pure B/X but not actual BX it would be OSE, the rest are just clones that don't do anything different but OSE at least has the Advanced rules which add stuff. Shadowdark is popular (for some unknown reason...) but it's more OSR-adjacent. Personally I think there are way too many OSR rules that do mostly the same thing, so its just a glut of similar products that bloat the market.

Quote from: Eric Diaz on March 15, 2025, 09:38:33 AMDolmenwood is out (or nearly out) and it looks like an improvement over OSE.

I wonder if OSE will take a hit.

I doubt it. I ran a Dolmenwood campaign recently. It's fine, but the parts that are different from regular OSE are very much tailored to the Dolmenwood setting. The new races/classes are mostly not going to be something you want to bring into your regular D&D-world game, and I don't think many people will want to make Dolmenwood their permanent gaming setting.

I almost posted this exact same question, and using the same two games as well.

When I joined this forum it was Old School Essentials.

Now I'm not so sure.  Shadowdark is taking off.  Hell, even my cynical butt has bought it, and even likes it too. 

I'm going to vote Shadowdark. 

As an outsider who didn't know what OSR in gaming was until the OGL debacle (thinking it an updated form of OCR in pdfs that makes the text searchable), I'll chime in for Shadowdark as well in terms of eyeballs and attention at least.   I have zero idea of who is playing what in whichever numbers but it dominates the talk of the scene whenever I look (even in between the kickstarters).  It likely being the easiest gateway (whether actually true or not I have no idea) for the 5e crowd looking for a change of rules and/or company likely plays into that.   OSE/DCC usually follow behind always being mentioned but as an adjunct rather than the primary source of conversation where I see old school fantasy gaming mentioned.

Quote from: Spobo on March 15, 2025, 07:11:29 AMI think it's unclear right now whether there is one. As far as straight retroclones OSE is the top. S'mon is right that Shadowdark is the outlet for 5e players but I'm not sure how much money it makes. It's definitely the most ascendant one recently. But other than that the pie could be split any number of ways between Kevin Crawford games, DCC, Mork Borg (blech), or something else I'm not thinking of at the moment.

Is DCC really still that dominant a ruleset in the OSR market, all these years later?  I'm not a DCC hater.  I own a copy, and it's the most gonzo thing I've ever read.

Quote from: Man at Arms on March 15, 2025, 02:32:12 PM

Quote from: Spobo on March 15, 2025, 07:11:29 AMI think it's unclear right now whether there is one. As far as straight retroclones OSE is the top. S'mon is right that Shadowdark is the outlet for 5e players but I'm not sure how much money it makes. It's definitely the most ascendant one recently. But other than that the pie could be split any number of ways between Kevin Crawford games, DCC, Mork Borg (blech), or something else I'm not thinking of at the moment.

Is DCC really still that dominant a ruleset in the OSR market, all these years later?  I'm not a DCC hater.  I own a copy, and it's the most gonzo thing I've ever read.

DCC appears to me to be on about the same popularity level as Castles and Crusades, which is in the second tier behind OSE, but still well ahead of the next tier down (which would include most of the other well known games like Hyperborea, Low Fantasy Gaming, BFRPG, the "Without Number" games, Etc.,)

As for OSE vs. Shadowdark, the impression I get is that Shadowdark is probably selling more copies at the moment, but OSE probably still has more active games. 

Quote from: Man at Arms on March 15, 2025, 02:32:12 PM

Quote from: Spobo on March 15, 2025, 07:11:29 AMI think it's unclear right now whether there is one. As far as straight retroclones OSE is the top. S'mon is right that Shadowdark is the outlet for 5e players but I'm not sure how much money it makes. It's definitely the most ascendant one recently. But other than that the pie could be split any number of ways between Kevin Crawford games, DCC, Mork Borg (blech), or something else I'm not thinking of at the moment.

Is DCC really still that dominant a ruleset in the OSR market, all these years later?  I'm not a DCC hater.  I own a copy, and it's the most gonzo thing I've ever read.

It's not necessarily the top one or the one grabbing the most market share or anything, but it is very consistent. They put out new modules and new campaign settings fairly regularly, and Goodman Games has a good reputation and a dedicated customer base.

Quote from: Spobo on March 15, 2025, 03:47:28 PM

Quote from: Man at Arms on March 15, 2025, 02:32:12 PM

Quote from: Spobo on March 15, 2025, 07:11:29 AMI think it's unclear right now whether there is one. As far as straight retroclones OSE is the top. S'mon is right that Shadowdark is the outlet for 5e players but I'm not sure how much money it makes. It's definitely the most ascendant one recently. But other than that the pie could be split any number of ways between Kevin Crawford games, DCC, Mork Borg (blech), or something else I'm not thinking of at the moment.

Is DCC really still that dominant a ruleset in the OSR market, all these years later?  I'm not a DCC hater.  I own a copy, and it's the most gonzo thing I've ever read.

It's not necessarily the top one or the one grabbing the most market share or anything, but it is very consistent. They put out new modules and new campaign settings fairly regularly, and Goodman Games has a good reputation and a dedicated customer base.

It is a unique and interesting ruleset.  I like it, but it would take a dedicated buy in from players; and it appears to be more campaign centric, than one shot centric.

Quote from: Man at Arms on March 15, 2025, 05:08:52 PM

Quote from: Spobo on March 15, 2025, 03:47:28 PM

Quote from: Man at Arms on March 15, 2025, 02:32:12 PM

Quote from: Spobo on March 15, 2025, 07:11:29 AMI think it's unclear right now whether there is one. As far as straight retroclones OSE is the top. S'mon is right that Shadowdark is the outlet for 5e players but I'm not sure how much money it makes. It's definitely the most ascendant one recently. But other than that the pie could be split any number of ways between Kevin Crawford games, DCC, Mork Borg (blech), or something else I'm not thinking of at the moment.

Is DCC really still that dominant a ruleset in the OSR market, all these years later?  I'm not a DCC hater.  I own a copy, and it's the most gonzo thing I've ever read.

It's not necessarily the top one or the one grabbing the most market share or anything, but it is very consistent. They put out new modules and new campaign settings fairly regularly, and Goodman Games has a good reputation and a dedicated customer base.

It is a unique and interesting ruleset.  I like it, but it would take a dedicated buy in from players; and it appears to be more campaign centric, than one shot centric.

More the other way around, it's extremely fun for one shots and episodic stories and harder to do with lengthy games. There's a lot of randomness and each module is a self-contained adventure that doesn't necessarily take place in the same area as any other. Unless you get the Lankhmar book or Purple Planet or one of their others that are more like campaign settings.

Quote from: Spobo on March 15, 2025, 05:50:38 PM

Quote from: Man at Arms on March 15, 2025, 05:08:52 PM

Quote from: Spobo on March 15, 2025, 03:47:28 PM

Quote from: Man at Arms on March 15, 2025, 02:32:12 PM

Quote from: Spobo on March 15, 2025, 07:11:29 AMI think it's unclear right now whether there is one. As far as straight retroclones OSE is the top. S'mon is right that Shadowdark is the outlet for 5e players but I'm not sure how much money it makes. It's definitely the most ascendant one recently. But other than that the pie could be split any number of ways between Kevin Crawford games, DCC, Mork Borg (blech), or something else I'm not thinking of at the moment.

Is DCC really still that dominant a ruleset in the OSR market, all these years later?  I'm not a DCC hater.  I own a copy, and it's the most gonzo thing I've ever read.

It's not necessarily the top one or the one grabbing the most market share or anything, but it is very consistent. They put out new modules and new campaign settings fairly regularly, and Goodman Games has a good reputation and a dedicated customer base.

It is a unique and interesting ruleset.  I like it, but it would take a dedicated buy in from players; and it appears to be more campaign centric, than one shot centric.

More the other way around, it's extremely fun for one shots and episodic stories and harder to do with lengthy games. There's a lot of randomness and each module is a self-contained adventure that doesn't necessarily take place in the same area as any other. Unless you get the Lankhmar book or Purple Planet or one of their others that are more like campaign settings.

I guess because many things in DCC seem to be completely different takes on D&D Core Classes and Mechanics;  I assumed relearning everything in the game, was more appropriate for a campaign level of player buy in?  Is that a hurdle for a new DCC Game Master, to put a one shot together and run it?

Quote from: ForgottenF on March 15, 2025, 10:47:52 AM

Quote from: Eric Diaz on March 15, 2025, 09:38:33 AMDolmenwood is out (or nearly out) and it looks like an improvement over OSE.

I wonder if OSE will take a hit.

I doubt it. I ran a Dolmenwood campaign recently. It's fine, but the parts that are different from regular OSE are very much tailored to the Dolmenwood setting. The new races/classes are mostly not going to be something you want to bring into your regular D&D-world game, and I don't think many people will want to make Dolmenwood their permanent gaming setting.

Reminds me of MYFAROG/ReconQuest, the only OSR game I've really tabbed through, it's also quite focused on it's theme.