I really like Fantasy Wargaming because it is almost intentionally obtuse. It was written by a group Cambridge graduate students or something, and it shows. A collection of articles followed by a gaming system that appears to be vastly more complex than it truly is, I felt really accomplished when I finally figured it all out. There are the makings of an excellent game in FW, unfortunately it's burdened with the sort of language you'd read in a medieval history journal, not anything meant for mass mark consumption. I consider it to be the epitome of what you get when some smart people decide to tell you about something they've been working on, but have a complete lack of communication skills.

Truthfully, for me the concept of the game might be what draws me in.

I may get the game, read it and its not what I am looking for, but that was the reason for me to buy games in the past when I did make impulse purcheses.

Those days are gone now and I only buy what I know I will use/play. 

Quote from: Brad on May 02, 2023, 04:44:45 PM
I really like Fantasy Wargaming because it is almost intentionally obtuse. It was written by a group Cambridge graduate students or something, and it shows. A collection of articles followed by a gaming system that appears to be vastly more complex than it truly is, I felt really accomplished when I finally figured it all out. There are the makings of an excellent game in FW, unfortunately it's burdened with the sort of language you'd read in a medieval history journal, not anything meant for mass mark consumption. I consider it to be the epitome of what you get when some smart people decide to tell you about something they've been working on, but have a complete lack of communication skills.

"Like" might be too strong a word for me.  I'd use "Occupies a spot on my gaming shelf in spite of itself" instead.  Under that criteria, I've got a copy of Fantasy Wargaming that I will probably never get rid of, for exactly the reasons that you list. 

In general, I have a soft spot for ambitious, failed games.  People reached for the stars and fell off the ladder only three rungs up.  In some ways, I like them better than the ultra-polished, "safe", designed by a committee stuff.

Quote from: Zalman on May 02, 2023, 10:46:24 AM
All the reasons I have for liking games are brilliant! Only other people's reasons are dumb 

Lol. 

<raises up his drink in salute>

Quote from: weirdguy564 on May 01, 2023, 07:55:36 PM
1.  Its not D&D.  Look at me, I'm a hipster.  I don't go with the flow, guys.  I don't like the best there is because I'm special.  Yeah, it really, really is pretentious, but it happens to also be true.  I liked the system because I'm going the road less travelled.

2.   I like RoboTech RPG from PB because it has the Wasp BattleMech on the cover.  Yup. we got into it because we started with BattleTech, and the RPG has the same art.  I know the entire story in detail, so no need to go into how the two exist side by side, but when I was 14, it was just because of the cover art.

3.  Palladium Books had more than one game genre using (nearly) the same rules.  I didn't need to relearn anything to play super heroes, or space fighter pilots, or their magnum opus, the Rifts melting pot where all of the above come together.  How is this stupid?  It stopped us from playing other games like D6 Star Wars or ShadowRun.  We owned those games.  We couldn't get the rules down in 30 minutes, so we ditched them and went back to Palladium.

The stuff about not trying out other systems cuz you're used to Palladium system is just mental laziness, but everyone of these is a valid reason to like Palladium games as far as I'm concerned. Even #1 is good enough for me considering the overwhelming market dominance of D&D and how annoying its strongest adherents can be.

Only invalid reason to like Palladium games is...

Quote from: weirdguy564 on May 01, 2023, 07:55:36 PMI love the system.

... and even then I can sorta see the charm in it. It's just that the broken stuff is so broken it puts me off from playing them.

On the actual topic only thing that comes to mind is maybe liking Shadowrun in part cuz I have a soft spot for success generation dice pool mechanics using d6 in particular. I don't hate d10s, but they come pretty far down the list for me in terms of tactile experience of rolling the dice compared to rolling d6s.

I probably have more silly reasons for not liking a RPG than for liking them. Like for example I'm not a fan of BRP/CoC cuz I don't like roll under mechanics or keeping track of % chances unless they're in 5% increments, and prefer d20s over d100s, specially if I'm tracking % or ability increases in +/-5% increments.

Quote from: Steven Mitchell on May 03, 2023, 10:14:35 AM
"Like" might be too strong a word for me.  I'd use "Occupies a spot on my gaming shelf in spite of itself" instead.  Under that criteria, I've got a copy of Fantasy Wargaming that I will probably never get rid of, for exactly the reasons that you list. 

In general, I have a soft spot for ambitious, failed games.  People reached for the stars and fell off the ladder only three rungs up.  In some ways, I like them better than the ultra-polished, "safe", designed by a committee stuff.

If you (or anyone else) is interested, there is a very recent book release that covers the history of Fantasy Wargaming:

https://mikemonaco.wordpress.com/2023/02/15/fantasy-wargaming-news-its-kind-of-a-big-deal/

Free PDF, I just downloaded and started reading it. As far as a copy of the actual book goes, I have three right now and ordered a couple more. I figure that eventually most people will probably pulp these things and turn them into hamster cage litter, which would be an unfortunate waste.

I picked up Fantasy Wargaming second hand many years ago - slightly amazed it apparently has a cult following, when other better written books like What Is Dungeons & Dragons? from the same era seem forgotten.

Quote from: S'mon on May 04, 2023, 05:43:41 AM
I picked up Fantasy Wargaming second hand many years ago - slightly amazed it apparently has a cult following, when other better written books like What Is Dungeons & Dragons? from the same era seem forgotten.

You literally have no idea, then, how many copies of that thing were floating around. It was ubiquitous at one point. I remember around 92-93 there was a comic book store I frequented that also had a rather sizeable collection of RPGs, and carried some older stuff. They must have had 20 copies of the full sized hardback, complete with jacket covers in shrinkwrap. Cannot say anyone except me ever bought one, even when they discounted them down to $2 or something. Everyone in my age group who has played RPGs and isn't some D&D-only shill has at least heard of it.

Quote from: Brad on May 04, 2023, 09:17:34 AM
You literally have no idea, then, how many copies of that thing were floating around. It was ubiquitous at one point. I remember around 92-93 there was a comic book store I frequented that also had a rather sizeable collection of RPGs, and carried some older stuff. They must have had 20 copies of the full sized hardback, complete with jacket covers in shrinkwrap. Cannot say anyone except me ever bought one, even when they discounted them down to $2 or something. Everyone in my age group who has played RPGs and isn't some D&D-only shill has at least heard of it.

Interesting. I never saw it on sale new here in UK, only the second hand copy I picked up (with dust jacket) I think in the late '90s, as a curio. I wonder if the US distributors bought more than they could sell on.

- I like D&D 3/3.5E because a lot of fluff is great and I use feats to define a character's psychology/physiology/background, not as "builds".
- I like Planescape because it was partly inspired by Borges and Calvino - and it shows.
- I like Rifts because the fluff is amazingly bonkers.
- I like the original V:tM because back then it was an interesting concept (LARPing excluded). Mage too.

Generally speaking, I like anything with a good fluff even if the system is terrible. I just use the fluff with another system.

The feel of the mechanics when they support the genre.

I love Twilight:2013 above all other versions of Twilight:2000 because the combat mechanics give the right feel and the firearms damage mechanics are 100% based upon ballistics formulas. You can get results that include anything from a slight grazing wound all the way up to "one shot-one kill" results, as well as shock and bleeding out.

Yes, the layout of the book is clunky. Yes, the campaign timeline is not all that well thought-out. But it feels right

Quote from: S'mon on May 04, 2023, 10:13:56 AM
Interesting. I never saw it on sale new here in UK, only the second hand copy I picked up (with dust jacket) I think in the late '90s, as a curio. I wonder if the US distributors bought more than they could sell on.

   I'm told it made it into the Science Fiction Book Club, which accounts for a lot of its ubiquity.

Dumbest reason? Crazy concepts that I will never get to play but that sound fun. I owned two "Rifts" books at one point including the core book and "Underseas", and in the latter was info on playing a were-dolphin wizard with power armor who teams up with Captain Nemo to kill Cthulhu.

And maybe... using GURPS books as research. Not sure how accurate some of it is, but I would certainly know less than the little I do about eg. Russian history without reading the GURPS material.

Quote from: Brad on May 04, 2023, 09:17:34 AM

Quote from: S'mon on May 04, 2023, 05:43:41 AM
I picked up Fantasy Wargaming second hand many years ago - slightly amazed it apparently has a cult following, when other better written books like What Is Dungeons & Dragons? from the same era seem forgotten.

You literally have no idea, then, how many copies of that thing were floating around. It was ubiquitous at one point. I remember around 92-93 there was a comic book store I frequented that also had a rather sizeable collection of RPGs, and carried some older stuff. They must have had 20 copies of the full sized hardback, complete with jacket covers in shrinkwrap. Cannot say anyone except me ever bought one, even when they discounted them down to $2 or something. Everyone in my age group who has played RPGs and isn't some D&D-only shill has at least heard of it.

I guess there was scholastic version I was able to pick up while back.  It's interesting for the stark take on Medieval society and making no apologies for it.  Also, vampire sheep!

Good find on that PDF.  Must be a labour of love for the author to write that.

According to my friends, depth and complexity.