This ought to be easy. Sometimes we just like a game for very little reason. In fact, I have a couple of RPG's I like because they have one feature that just piques my interest, and I'll overlook a shed load of faults because of it.
For example. Palladium Books. I actually like the system for three stupid reasons. It's not the easiest game to learn as many times there are contradictions and unclear wording, or just the newer games have more or modified rules compared to the older ones. Yet, I love the system.
1. Its not D&D. Look at me, I'm a hipster. I don't go with the flow, guys. I don't like the best there is because I'm special. Yeah, it really, really is pretentious, but it happens to also be true. I liked the system because I'm going the road less travelled.
2. I like RoboTech RPG from PB because it has the Wasp BattleMech on the cover. Yup. we got into it because we started with BattleTech, and the RPG has the same art. I know the entire story in detail, so no need to go into how the two exist side by side, but when I was 14, it was just because of the cover art.
3. Palladium Books had more than one game genre using (nearly) the same rules. I didn't need to relearn anything to play super heroes, or space fighter pilots, or their magnum opus, the Rifts melting pot where all of the above come together. How is this stupid? It stopped us from playing other games like D6 Star Wars or ShadowRun. We owned those games. We couldn't get the rules down in 30 minutes, so we ditched them and went back to Palladium.
I've got a few more, but I want to just make posts for fun and see who says what.
Do you have a game you like more than others because of some obscure reason?
The art. I hate to say it but Art is often what draws me to buy a game I have not played... and art has nothing, absolutely thing to do with the game being good or not. Some of the worst games I have in my collection have great art. Stll without good art I just skip right over things.
Probably the number of options. Always loved RPGs with zillions of options.
I used to play GURPS but now I cannot stomach the hundreds of skills, for example.
Used to love having rangers and paladins but now I thin the best way is just having four basic classes and a few feats to choose from.
I used to love complex chargen, now I want to start playing faster.
I'm not sure that specializing in certain weapons makes any sense, except in very specific games.
I still love monster books with 500+ monsters but now I'm using premade modules and the monsters in B/X are enough for me during the hexcrawl.
Also, I used to love reading everything that was not D&D. 3:16, Fate, Kult, UA, etc. Nowadays I only play D&D and I might play something like Runequest or CoC, and that's it.
:'( Because it's fun to pretend to be somewhere wonderous. I know, shallow and droll.
Art is a big factor, though it's probably more accurate in my case to call it the DUMBEST reason I don't like a game. This applies to computer and board games as well, books, etc. For many years I refused to even look at Warhammer Fantasy or 40K because I didn't like the art (it was usually technically accomplished, but just not my style). Luckily I have friends who are more open-minded about such things than I am, and they convinced me to give these things a try. I did and I got hooked.
Right now I am seriously considering buying Mutant Epoch even though I need another RPG system like I need a hole in the head. Zany Gamma World-style post apocalyptic is not really my thing, but the art and just the whole look of the game has me on the verge of spending $200+ on the core rules and and most of the supplements.
I have a bit of a soft spot for "edgy" games, whether it's black metal grimdark stuff like LOTFP or Xas Irkalla, blood-and-boobies pulp like Tales of Gor or old D20 Conan, or plain old childish nonsense like The Book of Erotic Fantasy or F.A.T.A.L.. They appeal to the 16 year-old in me.
I seek these games out in the full knowledge that I will probably never play them. When it comes to the grimdark stuff, my players have expressed repeatedly that they aren't interested, (though I might sneak some of it into a general fantasy game). When it comes to the sex stuff, I don't even want to play it. It honestly sounds pretty cringe. It just makes me laugh that it exists.
While cover art can be a factor in choosing a novel or magazine, it doesn't factor into my RPG purchases at all. Unless it looks expensive, and the book is expensive. Then I won't buy, on principle.
I won't buy a softbound core rulebook unless there is absolutely no other option. I'd rather buy a PDF and have it printed as a hardbound.
I tend to like RPG products that are "old school." In MY opinion, because the labels are abused. Doesn't mean I'll buy any old OSR crap though. I really have to think I might have a use for it.
Cover art - the high fantasy Larry Elmore covers on BECMI D&D are a huge pull for me, even though the game at low level is still basically OD&D Fantasy Fucking Vietnam. Luckily BECMI is easy to drift in that epic fantasy direction. I offered my 5 year old son a choice of art style for his first ever D&D campaign, Frazetta or Elmore. He went Elmore, so we rolled up a level 4 Magic-User riding a white dragon! In his first adventure he saved Karameikos from an evil red dragon rider, and married the princess. ;D
Quote from: ForgottenF on May 01, 2023, 11:14:00 PM
blood-and-boobies pulp like Tales of Gor or old D20 Conan
Yeah, I bought Grim's D6 Gor pretty much entirely for the prurient interest. ;D If it had any maps in it I might actually have run it, though! I did finally get some use from it by repurposing some of the art for my Dragonbane: Xoth S&S game. And if I run Mini Six: Primeval Thule again I'll look to see if it has any useful crunch.
Another cover art one - I love the cover of 1e Dark Conspiracy by Games Workshop. I really want a game of teenage monster hunters fighting zombie Michael Jackson! Sadly the game inside the book is not that game. But I occasionally mull over putting together a game like that, maybe using some of the DC background info with eg Mini Six rules & templated PCs.
The dumbest reason: I have several perfectly average games I love because their mere existence pisses off the right people.
Quote from: S'mon on May 02, 2023, 03:22:40 AM
Quote from: ForgottenF on May 01, 2023, 11:14:00 PM
blood-and-boobies pulp like Tales of Gor or old D20 Conan
Yeah, I bought Grim's D6 Gor pretty much entirely for the prurient interest. ;D If it had any maps in it I might actually have run it, though! I did finally get some use from it by repurposing some of the art for my Dragonbane: Xoth S&S game. And if I run Mini Six: Primeval Thule again I'll look to see if it has any useful crunch.
Interesting. I haven't bought it but have considered it because of the number of friends I have in the Gor scene (two parts: the re-enactment adjacent groups like the TuChux and the S&M scene part). Not sure if that would be a dumb reason or not.
Then again, it would qualify for the main dumb reason listed above.
All the reasons I have for liking games are brilliant! Only other people's reasons are dumb ;)
Quote from: PulpHerb on May 02, 2023, 10:34:01 AM
Interesting. I haven't bought it but have considered it because of the number of friends I have in the Gor scene (two parts: the re-enactment adjacent groups like the TuChux and the S&M scene part). Not sure if that would be a dumb reason or not.
Then again, it would qualify for the main dumb reason listed above.
Unless you're into D6 System I'd suggest https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/216179/Art-of-Gor-Michael-Mannings-Vision?src=hottest_filtered plus https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/210277/World-of-Gor-Gorean-Roleplaying-World-Encyclopaedia?src=hottest_filtered
Quote from: Opaopajr on May 01, 2023, 10:16:20 PM
:'( Because it's fun to pretend to be somewhere wonderous. I know, shallow and droll.
Not at all, hoss. I think that's a great reason!
I really like Fantasy Wargaming because it is almost intentionally obtuse. It was written by a group Cambridge graduate students or something, and it shows. A collection of articles followed by a gaming system that appears to be vastly more complex than it truly is, I felt really accomplished when I finally figured it all out. There are the makings of an excellent game in FW, unfortunately it's burdened with the sort of language you'd read in a medieval history journal, not anything meant for mass mark consumption. I consider it to be the epitome of what you get when some smart people decide to tell you about something they've been working on, but have a complete lack of communication skills.
Truthfully, for me the concept of the game might be what draws me in.
I may get the game, read it and its not what I am looking for, but that was the reason for me to buy games in the past when I did make impulse purcheses.
Those days are gone now and I only buy what I know I will use/play.
Quote from: Brad on May 02, 2023, 04:44:45 PM
I really like Fantasy Wargaming because it is almost intentionally obtuse. It was written by a group Cambridge graduate students or something, and it shows. A collection of articles followed by a gaming system that appears to be vastly more complex than it truly is, I felt really accomplished when I finally figured it all out. There are the makings of an excellent game in FW, unfortunately it's burdened with the sort of language you'd read in a medieval history journal, not anything meant for mass mark consumption. I consider it to be the epitome of what you get when some smart people decide to tell you about something they've been working on, but have a complete lack of communication skills.
"Like" might be too strong a word for me. I'd use "Occupies a spot on my gaming shelf in spite of itself" instead. Under that criteria, I've got a copy of Fantasy Wargaming that I will probably never get rid of, for exactly the reasons that you list.
In general, I have a soft spot for ambitious, failed games. People reached for the stars and fell off the ladder only three rungs up. In some ways, I like them better than the ultra-polished, "safe", designed by a committee stuff.
Quote from: Zalman on May 02, 2023, 10:46:24 AM
All the reasons I have for liking games are brilliant! Only other people's reasons are dumb ;)
Lol.
<raises up his drink in salute>
Quote from: weirdguy564 on May 01, 2023, 07:55:36 PM
1. Its not D&D. Look at me, I'm a hipster. I don't go with the flow, guys. I don't like the best there is because I'm special. Yeah, it really, really is pretentious, but it happens to also be true. I liked the system because I'm going the road less travelled.
2. I like RoboTech RPG from PB because it has the Wasp BattleMech on the cover. Yup. we got into it because we started with BattleTech, and the RPG has the same art. I know the entire story in detail, so no need to go into how the two exist side by side, but when I was 14, it was just because of the cover art.
3. Palladium Books had more than one game genre using (nearly) the same rules. I didn't need to relearn anything to play super heroes, or space fighter pilots, or their magnum opus, the Rifts melting pot where all of the above come together. How is this stupid? It stopped us from playing other games like D6 Star Wars or ShadowRun. We owned those games. We couldn't get the rules down in 30 minutes, so we ditched them and went back to Palladium.
The stuff about not trying out other systems cuz you're used to Palladium system is just mental laziness, but everyone of these is a valid reason to like Palladium games as far as I'm concerned. Even #1 is good enough for me considering the overwhelming market dominance of D&D and how annoying its strongest adherents can be.
Only invalid reason to like Palladium games is...
Quote from: weirdguy564 on May 01, 2023, 07:55:36 PMI love the system.
... and even then I can sorta see the charm in it. It's just that the broken stuff is so broken it puts me off from playing them.
On the actual topic only thing that comes to mind is maybe liking Shadowrun in part cuz I have a soft spot for success generation dice pool mechanics using d6 in particular. I don't hate d10s, but they come pretty far down the list for me in terms of tactile experience of rolling the dice compared to rolling d6s.
I probably have more silly reasons for not liking a RPG than for liking them. Like for example I'm not a fan of BRP/CoC cuz I don't like roll under mechanics or keeping track of % chances unless they're in 5% increments, and prefer d20s over d100s, specially if I'm tracking % or ability increases in +/-5% increments.
Quote from: Steven Mitchell on May 03, 2023, 10:14:35 AM
"Like" might be too strong a word for me. I'd use "Occupies a spot on my gaming shelf in spite of itself" instead. Under that criteria, I've got a copy of Fantasy Wargaming that I will probably never get rid of, for exactly the reasons that you list.
In general, I have a soft spot for ambitious, failed games. People reached for the stars and fell off the ladder only three rungs up. In some ways, I like them better than the ultra-polished, "safe", designed by a committee stuff.
If you (or anyone else) is interested, there is a very recent book release that covers the history of Fantasy Wargaming:
https://mikemonaco.wordpress.com/2023/02/15/fantasy-wargaming-news-its-kind-of-a-big-deal/
Free PDF, I just downloaded and started reading it. As far as a copy of the actual book goes, I have three right now and ordered a couple more. I figure that eventually most people will probably pulp these things and turn them into hamster cage litter, which would be an unfortunate waste.
I picked up Fantasy Wargaming second hand many years ago - slightly amazed it apparently has a cult following, when other better written books like What Is Dungeons & Dragons? from the same era seem forgotten.
Quote from: S'mon on May 04, 2023, 05:43:41 AM
I picked up Fantasy Wargaming second hand many years ago - slightly amazed it apparently has a cult following, when other better written books like What Is Dungeons & Dragons? from the same era seem forgotten.
You literally have no idea, then, how many copies of that thing were floating around. It was ubiquitous at one point. I remember around 92-93 there was a comic book store I frequented that also had a rather sizeable collection of RPGs, and carried some older stuff. They must have had 20 copies of the full sized hardback, complete with jacket covers in shrinkwrap. Cannot say anyone except me ever bought one, even when they discounted them down to $2 or something. Everyone in my age group who has played RPGs and isn't some D&D-only shill has at least heard of it.
Quote from: Brad on May 04, 2023, 09:17:34 AM
You literally have no idea, then, how many copies of that thing were floating around. It was ubiquitous at one point. I remember around 92-93 there was a comic book store I frequented that also had a rather sizeable collection of RPGs, and carried some older stuff. They must have had 20 copies of the full sized hardback, complete with jacket covers in shrinkwrap. Cannot say anyone except me ever bought one, even when they discounted them down to $2 or something. Everyone in my age group who has played RPGs and isn't some D&D-only shill has at least heard of it.
Interesting. I never saw it on sale new here in UK, only the second hand copy I picked up (with dust jacket) I think in the late '90s, as a curio. I wonder if the US distributors bought more than they could sell on.
- I like D&D 3/3.5E because a lot of fluff is great and I use feats to define a character's psychology/physiology/background, not as "builds".
- I like Planescape because it was partly inspired by Borges and Calvino - and it shows.
- I like Rifts because the fluff is amazingly bonkers.
- I like the original V:tM because back then it was an interesting concept (LARPing excluded). Mage too.
Generally speaking, I like anything with a good fluff even if the system is terrible. I just use the fluff with another system.
The feel of the mechanics when they support the genre.
I love Twilight:2013 above all other versions of Twilight:2000 because the combat mechanics give the right feel and the firearms damage mechanics are 100% based upon ballistics formulas. You can get results that include anything from a slight grazing wound all the way up to "one shot-one kill" results, as well as shock and bleeding out.
Yes, the layout of the book is clunky. Yes, the campaign timeline is not all that well thought-out. But it feels right
Quote from: S'mon on May 04, 2023, 10:13:56 AM
Interesting. I never saw it on sale new here in UK, only the second hand copy I picked up (with dust jacket) I think in the late '90s, as a curio. I wonder if the US distributors bought more than they could sell on.
I'm told it made it into the Science Fiction Book Club, which accounts for a lot of its ubiquity.
Dumbest reason? Crazy concepts that I will never get to play but that sound fun. I owned two "Rifts" books at one point including the core book and "Underseas", and in the latter was info on playing a were-dolphin wizard with power armor who teams up with Captain Nemo to kill Cthulhu.
And maybe... using GURPS books as research. Not sure how accurate some of it is, but I would certainly know less than the little I do about eg. Russian history without reading the GURPS material.
Quote from: Brad on May 04, 2023, 09:17:34 AM
Quote from: S'mon on May 04, 2023, 05:43:41 AM
I picked up Fantasy Wargaming second hand many years ago - slightly amazed it apparently has a cult following, when other better written books like What Is Dungeons & Dragons? from the same era seem forgotten.
You literally have no idea, then, how many copies of that thing were floating around. It was ubiquitous at one point. I remember around 92-93 there was a comic book store I frequented that also had a rather sizeable collection of RPGs, and carried some older stuff. They must have had 20 copies of the full sized hardback, complete with jacket covers in shrinkwrap. Cannot say anyone except me ever bought one, even when they discounted them down to $2 or something. Everyone in my age group who has played RPGs and isn't some D&D-only shill has at least heard of it.
I guess there was scholastic version I was able to pick up while back. It's interesting for the stark take on Medieval society and making no apologies for it. Also, vampire sheep!
Good find on that PDF. Must be a labour of love for the author to write that.
According to my friends, depth and complexity.
I like a couple of games purely because of how they do the dice rolling.
Pocket Fantasy. It's all 1D6. If you're good, then you get advantage, aka you rerolls and keep the best one. It also has opposed rolls like Palladium, but the game speeds up because the combat roll is a damage vs damage reduction roll. If I roll low to the other guy's high roll, no damage done. Simple.
Dungeons and Delvers Dice Pool Edition. Every stat and skill starts as 1D4, changing to 1D6, to 1D8, 1D10, and stopping at 1D12. Every roll is a stat + skill, but often you get more dice from you race and class abilities. Roll them, but you still only pick out the best two. Simple.
Quote from: Brad on May 02, 2023, 04:44:45 PM
I really like Fantasy Wargaming because it is almost intentionally obtuse. It was written by a group Cambridge graduate students or something, and it shows. A collection of articles followed by a gaming system that appears to be vastly more complex than it truly is, I felt really accomplished when I finally figured it all out. There are the makings of an excellent game in FW, unfortunately it's burdened with the sort of language you'd read in a medieval history journal, not anything meant for mass mark consumption. I consider it to be the epitome of what you get when some smart people decide to tell you about something they've been working on, but have a complete lack of communication skills.
Ugh. I got the science fiction book club edition. When I finally got around to reading it and discovered there were mods based on your zodiac sign and the month of the year I decided it was actually a parody of an RPG. I'm still boggled when I see people taking it seriously
And for me, the art style. I used to buy every %^(% useless thing if I loved the art in the book. Fortunately I've developed a tiny bit of discipline over the years and was able to resist a gorgeous card based story telling game a bit ago. Small steps...
Quote from: S'mon on May 02, 2023, 03:21:05 AM
Cover art - the high fantasy Larry Elmore covers on BECMI D&D are a huge pull for me, even though the game at low level is still basically OD&D Fantasy Fucking Vietnam.
Yep. Elmore's stuff on the BECMI box sets, the cover of the third edition of Call of Cthulhu, and the cover art from the BattleTech Technical Readout 3025.
The cover art was the hook.
i can be a bigoted curmudgeon about anime. i hate when a player comes to the table thinking the game should resemble a "slice of life" anime and insists on trying to make it so, getting huffy and unfulfilled if they cannot star in some silly scene about struggling to bathe an animal companion or something.
eta
sorry missed the point; even if i am presented with things a player wants to include from what i might call anime sources, if the art from such can avoid spikey hair or improper proportions of eyes and such i can detach enough to make myself like it enough that it doesn't impede my flow or process.
I've got a group for my daughter and her friends. I'm running D&D 5th edition because they don't know any better. Anyhow, a few sessions back they 'rescued' a big doggie who was tied to a run down house. A big ol' mutt. After a couple sessions they happened to finally bring him into combat with them after he save their asses the session before when they were getting the crap beat out of them after attacking a Grung village. So anyhow, this session they took him with them into the ruined galley full of ghouls they were searching. His hackles raised when the ghouls approached and he breathed fire on them. The players just about fell off their chairs. He's 1/4 hell hound on his mother's side.
Now I'm absolutely going to have to do a slice of life bit where they have to try and give him a bath.
.... because it ain't made by WoTC (3.0, 3.5, 4, 5e), of course.
The D&D Rules Cyclopedia is L1-godhood: what's not to like? It's the very essence of what D&D is.
The Arcanum 2e from Bard Games (1985) is everything AD&D should've been (armor as damage reduction, eight schools of non-Vancian magic, hybrid classes at L1, snap-easy combat system, backgrounds that actually matter and a Renown sub-system).
TSR's Marvel Super Heroes because of the Karma system, Power-Stunts and real™ Marvel art.
Villains and Vigilantes let you play yourself + it was Jeff Dee 8)
Quote from: David Johansen on May 17, 2023, 08:10:05 PM
I've got a group for my daughter and her friends. I'm running D&D 5th edition because they don't know any better. Anyhow, a few sessions back they 'rescued' a big doggie who was tied to a run down house. A big ol' mutt. After a couple sessions they happened to finally bring him into combat with them after he save their asses the session before when they were getting the crap beat out of them after attacking a Grung village. So anyhow, this session they took him with them into the ruined galley full of ghouls they were searching. His hackles raised when the ghouls approached and he breathed fire on them. The players just about fell off their chairs. He's 1/4 hell hound on his mother's side.
Now I'm absolutely going to have to do a slice of life bit where they have to try and give him a bath.
don't do it bro as you may be forced to engage thereby with the grappling rules for whatever system you are running...once you start down the dark path fornever will ye see an end to unknown persons desperately trying to contact you about your cars extended warranty.
I buy stuff sometimes because I like the setting. Sometimes even though I know that no one in my group likes the setting.
John Carter, Conan, Star Trek, Dune ... all in 2d20, which I don't really understand.
Solomon Kane and Lankhmar got me to buy Savage Worlds. Not a big fan of SW, but it's better than 2d20.
I bought Twilight 2000 and Blade Runner and Alien by Free League because I love Free League, but my group dislikes scifi and military settings.
I own a lot of stuff we may never play. :D
How about this. OSR games that don't use Armor Class.
I've never been a fan of that mechanic. The idea of armor making you harder to hit seems weird to me, especially as I came from Palladium Fantasy where armor provides additional hit points if a hit is only marginally successful.
Games like Swords and Six Siders (it's free so check it out), which treat armor as damage reduction, or Dragon Warriors, which use armor as a saving throw/penetration roll.
I'm older and wiser now, so I see the advantage to Armor Class to speed up gameplay. Any time you roll dice in a game is also slowing it down. AC keeps thing moving. But, I still like games that don't use D&D Armor Class.
Character generation. Yeah, I've probably created three or four characters for every one that gets a little table time.
Quote from: zircher on May 22, 2023, 12:10:15 PM
Character generation. Yeah, I've probably created three or four characters for every one that gets a little table time.
ditto.
also i hope to lure old friends in just to see them again.
Quote from: finarvyn on May 18, 2023, 08:55:40 AMJohn Carter, Conan, Star Trek, Dune ... all in 2d20, which I don't really understand.
Ah, so
you're the one responsible for keeping Modiphius afloat and helping them secure the licenses for all these IPs despite everyone hating the crap out of their game engine? >:(
The art for me can make or break a sale. When I see amazing art, I'm sold. Shadows of esteren practically sold me on art alone, I got Conan 2d20 so I can have some sweet Boris Vallejo art, also I'm a guy I like sexy women in my fantasy games so I'm a sucker for cheesecake art too.
If the art is deliberately puritanical, woke or other bullshit I'm hard pressed to buy it even if the product is not. Often it's one of the first things I look at when flipping through a new book is the art. The absolute worst they can do with the art is that fucking photoshop image where they just take a photo of some staffer and run it through an ai or just alter the image to fit in the book and it ends up just looking stupid. Shadowrun 6e did this recently. Swade genre companions just ticked off endless diversity tick boxes and was entirely puritanical and is a runner up for worst art I've seen in a game in the last year
I got the Palladium TMNT RPG when it came out because I liked the Ninja Turtles. It is still one of my favorite games even though Palladium is definitely not my favorite system.
Then I got into the Robotech RPG for the same reason.
Maybe the dumbest reason I got into an RPG though is GURPS, because i was disgusted by 2e D&D, and thought that Classes and Levels were old fashioned. Boy did I learn how wrong I was, played GURPS for years and I can tell you with confidence that Classes and Levels are the best mechanic for an RPG. The clear character archetypes, clear progression with narrow options, and clear goals all lead to better games. The more options the worse an RPG is, and the harder it is on the GM.