In another thread where we're discussing about no suck things as "broken" mechanics, I brought up Rule Zero, i.e. modify the rules to suit your needs however you please, as a specificity of role playing games.

I was then told that it isn't actually anything special about RPGs. People make variants of board games all the time, so Rule Zero, whether it's actually printed on the rulebook or not, doesn't seem to be it for some people.

The same sort of thing occured when discussing immersion, playing a character, and well... it happens on pretty much every topic.

Which leaves me wondering in the end. Is ANYTHING "special" about RPGs to you?

What is this thing that RPGs do that other games do not, from your POV? Anything at all?

For me, it's the feeling that the players are exploring new ground, that something new is constantly being created, and that one's fellow players are not the enemy, but companions to be relied upon. Board games rarely provide such feelings, and videogames only provide them to a limited extent.

Quote from: ColonelHardisson;393372For me, it's the feeling that the players are exploring new ground, that something new is constantly being created, and that one's fellow players are not the enemy, but companions to be relied upon. Board games rarely provide such feelings, and videogames only provide them to a limited extent.

I don't think of any of these things as specific to RPGs. At all, actually. :hmm:

Oh. You mean like exploration within the game as it is being played? And players who are not adversaries but teammates to solve whatever problem comes along the way?

I think I might have misunderstood the post.

There are no limits.

Escape from Colditz is a great game, when I play all my little counters have names and different prefered methods of escape but when they get away they can't join the resistance and mount guerilla war against the Nazis.

When we encounter a band of goblins we don't need to fight them we can negotiate, cut a deal.

When I rescue the princess I can cut her throat and feed her to my dogs.

Now you can do this in literature but in literature it's just you writing there is no sense of immediate feedback, in an RPG, even an online RPG the world exists beyond you so you get feedback and the world sets the framework for you to work in.

No other genre of entertainment does this.

It's why my own personal defintion of Role-playing games includes storygames and Larps and all that other marginal crap but has a problem with MMOs and the like because the boundaries of the world are too narrow

It's the feeling of authorship of an exhilerating story, the thrill of narrative control over things other then my character, and the satisfaction of having the plot succeed as planned beforehand.

Oh wait...

Quote from: Benoist;393373I think I might have misunderstood the post.

I think so.

This strikes me as one of those questions that, no matter how many answers are provided, none will be deemed right. I've had teachers and professors who used the same kind of rhetorical style. After a short time it feels useless to answer at all.

Hello All! First post from a long time lurker
IMO the most intriguing aspects of role playing games and what sets them apart from other styles of games are as follows...

The process of feedback/creation.

The challenge of maintaining verisimilitude in setting/atmosphere and character as the process unfolds.

Sharing a wacky/dramatic time with friends (as well as strangers) and seeing the various approaches to gaming.I am sure we all have heard some very cool and funny exchanges at the table (or wherever) as well as some awesome modeling/drawing/speaking skills that add to the depth.

Using the mind in a new and expansive way while stretching the limits of (my) memorization skills. Oh what a failing to resort to notes...:rolleyes:

All of the above add up to one hell of a great time :hatsoff:!

Well, I'm trying to understand what you guys see as "special" in a role playing game that is not like ANY game out there. Something that makes you like RPGs as opposed to say... free form acting, Warhammer 40K or writing collaborative novels on websites.

Because if there isn't really anything special about RPGs... what's the point?

Quote from: skofflox;393380Hello All

Welcome to de-lurk mode, skofflox!

jibbajibba's got it right.

The hallmark of a role-playing game, to me, is that one can do whatever one damn well pleases (and cope with the consequences).

For the short time I played WoW, I hated the "Razorpork are stealing our women! Kill 8 Razorpork Bloodthingies" quests. What if I, a lone rogue, don't want to kill the fuckers? What if I'd rather ally with them against the chieftain, or dupe them into attacking the human stronghold across the fucking road from their lairs?

Which is why I can't be arsed with MMOs, at least as long as I have a regular gaming group.

Quote from: Benoist;393381Because if there isn't really anything special about RPGs... what's the point?

I love you man, but I feel you're overthinking this "what are RPGs" crap.

Who needs a "point"? The point is that RPGs are fun, period, full stop. It's an unbridled exercise in imagination, given structure by way of rules, but still far more open than board games, or CCGs, or videogames or what have you.

Quote from: The Butcher;393384I love you man, but I feel you're overthinking this "what are RPGs" crap.

Who needs a "point"? The point is that RPGs are fun, period, full stop. It's an unbridled exercise in imagination, given structure by way of rules, but still far more open than board games, or CCGs, or videogames or what have you.

I probably am overthinking it, you're right.

My semi-coherent answer.

People sharing their creativity and imagination in a transitory environment. People can "collaborate" on a book or a piece of media, and there's something tangible left after it's over. With an RPG, the games most often become a memory and a story to tell to others, from which everyone takes something different -- whether it's "I explored this character's personality" or "I rolled a 20 and totally killed that guy."

While I don't think RPGing is like theater, I think the experience can be very similar to seeing a live performance -- you can't re-watch the DVD or re-experience the game. It's one time only.

Quote from: Benoist;393382Welcome to de-lurk mode, skofflox!

Thank you very much...

Perhaps it is the ability to bring ALL of the above into a RPG according to ones proclivities that sets them apart.

For example Benoist mentions a type of theatre as being similar...can you bust out a 25mm, detailed to the max personalized model on stage and have it be an integral part of the experience as well as helping the tactician next to you plan the best approach...? It is the ability to mix all these things and bring something truly personal to the experience that, IMO, sets these games apart from other media.

or something like that...:idunno:

Quote from: Insufficient Metal;393390My semi-coherent answer.

People sharing their creativity and imagination in a transitory environment. People can "collaborate" on a book or a piece of media, and there's something tangible left after it's over. With an RPG, the games most often become a memory and a story to tell to others, from which everyone takes something different -- whether it's "I explored this character's personality" or "I rolled a 20 and totally killed that guy."

While I don't think RPGing is like theater, I think the experience can be very similar to seeing a live performance -- you can't re-watch the DVD or re-experience the game. It's one time only.

YEAH...*That is* an ingredient of the awesome sauce that gives RPG's a distinctive flavor! Great response...

Quote from: jibbajibba;393376There are no limits.

Escape from Colditz is a great game, when I play all my little counters have names and different prefered methods of escape but when they get away they can't join the resistance and mount guerilla war against the Nazis.

When we encounter a band of goblins we don't need to fight them we can negotiate, cut a deal.

When I rescue the princess I can cut her throat and feed her to my dogs.

Now you can do this in literature but in literature it's just you writing there is no sense of immediate feedback, in an RPG, even an online RPG the world exists beyond you so you get feedback and the world sets the framework for you to work in.

No other genre of entertainment does this.

It's why my own personal defintion of Role-playing games includes storygames and Larps and all that other marginal crap but has a problem with MMOs and the like because the boundaries of the world are too narrow

LOLsnark aside, jibbajibba has the right of it.

And Benoist, you are overthinking this one.