Well, it's not like they played, just took a cursory glance at the 5E PHB and dismissed it as "unbalanced baby mode." But yeah. I don't have enough experience with PF to make a comparison.

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;856888Why are spellcasters weaker in 5E? Every time I show Pathfinder players the spellcasters they have an aneurism about how 5E isn't balanced and how they made cantrips and spellcasting even more OP and high damage.

The Concentration rules are a serious nerf to all casters.

1. Lots of common spells are now Concentration spells, including buffs like Bless & Stoneskin. You can only have one going at a time - no Stoneskin + Fly, for instance.

2. Take damage, make a DC 10/half damage CON save or lose the spell.
Few casters have CON as a good save, so per RAW you get no Proficiency bonus, while damage numbers go up by level, at high level 22+ damage is common, but just rolling multiple DC 10 CON checks will do for most casters - eg my AC 18 Paladin eventually lost his Bless after numerous troglodyte attacks, Paladins don't get CON as a good save!  This then creates a death spiral - you lost the buff, so you/your party are now more vulnerable to future damage.

You might think "well, don't get hit" - but 5e 'Bounded Accuracy' design means that monsters will almost always be able to hit PCs.

Quote from: S'mon;856782Here's my suggestions on hacking 5e - nothing radical but it gives my game a decidedly non-3e feel:

Good stuff!

Quote from: Phillip;856810@ Eric Diaz: Money, encumbrance and torches are not OOC concerns! They are just the sort of thing one deals with IN character.

Quote from: Arminius;856814Possibly there's a missing period after "not really" in that item.

Yup, I messed up! What I meant is that 5e is not really focused on IC resource management, more focused on OOC resources (spells, actions, etc). Just fixed it! Thanks!

Encumbrance is a huge pain in general, does anyone actually use it even in "old school" play? Like you have to keep track of so much stuff, and know all of their different weights, and where each thing is going to be stored, and constantly update all of it every time they sell some off or find new items...

And I don't think it ever even really becomes relevant in 5E.

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;856981Encumbrance is a huge pain in general, does anyone actually use it even in "old school" play? Like you have to keep track of so much stuff, and know all of their different weights, and where each thing is going to be stored, and constantly update all of it every time they sell some off or find new items...

And I don't think it ever even really becomes relevant in 5E.

Lots of people certainly did*. It was a significant limiting factor in OD&D that was used as a action mitigating factor, especially when coins were 1/10 lb. apiece. The logistics of how much equipment to bring into a dungeon vs. how much treasure you could bring out of it was part of the resource management sub-game. Perhaps why bags of holding are so iconic to the game. I agree that adding up equipment weights (especially before everyone could bring a laptop with a spreadsheet program with them to gaming) can be added work. Whether that's a nuisance or part of the fun is up to the individual.

*As the prime argument of this thread highlights, there's lots of ideas on how people really played.

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;856981Encumbrance is a huge pain in general, does anyone actually use it even in "old school" play? Like you have to keep track of so much stuff, and know all of their different weights, and where each thing is going to be stored, and constantly update all of it every time they sell some off or find new items...

In old school Fantasy Trip, yes, it was often a significant part of play. You wouldn't want to put porter minions out of a job, would you?

There's a much more reliable way to gauge old-schoolness.

Halflings.

If the halflings are fat, amiable, and no threat whatsoever...it's old school.

If the halflings are athletic and badass...it's not old school.

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;856981Encumbrance is a huge pain in general, does anyone actually use it even in "old school" play?

I do what I've always done: once every session or so, I eyeball a PCs' equipment list and if it looks odd, I start adding up weights (a.k.a. "encumbrance audit").

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;856941Well, it's not like they played, just took a cursory glance at the 5E PHB and dismissed it as "unbalanced baby mode." But yeah. I don't have enough experience with PF to make a comparison.

Like S'mon said, Concentration is likely one of the biggest factors in keeping things balanced as it were. The damage cantrips do hasn't been a factor in the 5e games I run with damage being mostly dealt from the Fighter but it's significant enough that a wizard player doesn't feel useless when he's saving up his bigger spells for potentially greater threats in the day.

Quote from: Ghost;856997There's a much more reliable way to gauge old-schoolness.

Halflings.

If the halflings are fat, amiable, and no threat whatsoever...it's old school.

If the halflings are athletic and badass...it's not old school.

Those 4e halflings...*brrr*
5e halflings are pretty fat (especially their heads) and certainly look amiable.

Halflings are new school.

HOBBITSES are old school.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;857069Halflings are new school.

HOBBITSES are old school.

Once again you've bested me, old man.

Kobbit.

Quote from: Ghost;856997There's a much more reliable way to gauge old-schoolness.

Halflings.

If the halflings are fat, amiable, and no threat whatsoever...it's old school.

If the halflings are athletic and badass...it's not old school.

I went back to calling them Hobbits in my GURPS gameworld just because of D&D 3rd changing Halfings to sleek, athletic folks.  I even have them get miffed when someone calls them a "halfling."

"Why, sir, I am half of nothing, but am the right and proper size for a Hobbit."

Quote from: ThatChrisGuy;857094I went back to calling them Hobbits in my GURPS gameworld just because of D&D 3rd changing Halfings to sleek, athletic folks.  I even have them get miffed when someone calls them a "halfling."

"Why, sir, I am half of nothing, but am the right and proper size for a Hobbit."

Thats pretty awesome. I just may steal that:)