Yeah, Tony.  I'm with Sett.  This is where the stench of damage control comes flowing out.

WTF?

I don't think anyone here has said it's not OK for the background material, as you use ever so cleverly in your OP example, to be dark. Those other threads you so blithely reference were AP about in game events taken by the characters; not NPC's or setting or whatever.  This was a person saying "My character cuts off the head and performs sexual acts with the corpse of the boy."

You can't seriously be OK with that, can you?

So rephrase your question to more accurately depict the conversation if you want any kind of meaningful discussion.  Unless, of course, this was all just a way to divert attention. Have you read the game we're talking about?  Have you read the AP? As Sett asks, would you be OK with this kind of play?

For me, the boundaries of what is acceptable within any given group are something to be decided beforehand with the others. Within those limits, the PCs are absolutely free to do as the players wish; however, my descriptions will never go into explicit detail except under rare circumstances and by mutual consent, and there will always be consequences for every action.

Quote from: TonyLBThe whole rape/necrophilia thing that came out of Poison'd?  That's a fuckin' dark story.  But it's just a story.  I think it's fine to tell sick, dark, nasty stories.

Ahh...well then...we part ways...

EDIT: And Tony, please don't PM me.  We'll have any conversation about this or anything else in public. Thanks.

OK, Tony.

Farewell.
Please never speak to me again.

I didn't answer the poll because it depends on the context, who the protagonists (PCs) are, and how the game system rewards certain actions.

Schindler's List the RPG would be acceptable
Neo Nazi Concentration Camp Glorification Game, definitely not acceptable

Tying this back to the game that brought this up...
Dealing with the topic of Rape in an honest, sensitive, mature, grown-up way -- acceptable
Dealing with Rape in a smutty, brutal, enthusiastic, adolescent way -- not acceptable

Quote from: TonyLBYeah, I get that.  I hope those people will use the discussion thread (as Koltar has!) to make themselves clear where the multiple-choice format doesn't work for them.

 Tony,

 You might be an okay guy ....and a poll on this sort of thing might work, but your choices in this poll are just murky and ill-defined.

 Even the modern "Battlestar Galactica" has had some VERY dark things occur or referred to - but they don't show them graphically on screen.  It treads that delicate balance beam of implying and getting the idea across - without going too far , which is what I try to do in my RPG when I'm really on-my-gameas a GM.
The protagonists that we follow on BSG are appalled when bad/wrong/dark things happen.

The characters have conscience.

They don't revel in it.

- Ed C.

Tony, I normally assume everyone on the board acts in good faith, but between that referee'd thread in off-topic and this one I feel like you're maneuvering for advantage rather than engaging in open discourse.

Quote from: jrientsTony, I normally assume everyone on the board acts in good faith, but between that referee'd thread in off-topic and this one I feel like you're maneuvering for advantage rather than engaging in open discourse.

Thanks for using much better terms than I could put words to.

I deal with as much as my players want to deal with in my games.
I usually try to gloss over graphic content, if I don't know the group well and am not sure if some players are offended by this and I *definitely* do nothing to encourage this kind of (in-game) behavior, but saying "No, you can't do that!" is something I generally avoid saying when I GM, if I don't have a  (in-game) justification ready.
Doing so would destroy any meaningful immersion.*
I do take, however, the liberty to have the game-world react in an appropriate way to the act in question, making sure it isn't seen as something "desirable" or "fun" to do and I talk to the player in question after the game.
I just don't switch into the "moralistic god-mode" for any reason.

*unless part of the immersive experience is the notion that certain things from our world just don't exist in the game world (i.e. in a 4-color superhero world it would be OK to establish, that rape and torture simply don't exist in this world, so characters couldn't attempt them, obviously).

Stuart said pretty much what I would have said.

I'm not a "Swine War" person, but it really does seem that this poll has been put up in bad faith.

This seems obvious.

In short- I think all subjects are ok for roleplay, but depending on how they are handled certain people look like fuckwads for doing so.

What was the paraphrase in the holocaust thread?

It was something like.. "Anyone mature enough to handle such subjects is mature enough not to want to."

Quote from: TonyLBBut, like ... when you play a game, things happen in it, right?  What kind of things are okay to have happen?

That is dictated by my players, not me, and I mean players as a group. If anyone feels uncomfortable about something we won't go there. By uncomfortable, I mean sickened, not squeamish. I personally see such things as the celebrated Poison'd AP as completely disgusting.

Generally speaking, graphic sex of any kind makes them uncomfortable. Depictions of ongoing extreme brutality makes them uncomfortable. Depictions of ongoing mutilation makes them uncomfortable.

Where do I as a GM draw the line?

Sex is not shown but implied. It can be happening in the same room -in fact it did last week - but it's left to the players' imaginations.

Extreme brutality is shown by its after-effects, not as it is happening. They might possibly - I doubt I would go so far, but if I did, this is how I would handle it - find the headless body of a boy whose esophagus has been sodomized, but they are not treated to the sight of it happening. They would hunt down the person who did it and kill him before he does it again. Note I treat rape of any kind as an act of brutality than as a sexual act.

Same with mutilation. It can be shown after the fact, not during.

Emphasis - I never imply any sort of moral relativism. Even if something is accepted by a society - such as the ancient Greek attitude toward pederasty, or 18th century American attitude toward slavery - I do not depict it as a good thing. My players certainly view such things as evil acts whether or not the society they are in does.

As a game designer, I wouldn't touch such things with a three meter pole. Thse things are best left to the group in question. However, just because a group is comfortable with something like this doesn't mean I am going to be entertained by it. Their right to swing their fist around ends at the point of my jaw.

-clash

Quote from: Abyssal MawWhat was the paraphrase in the holocaust thread?

It was something like.. "Anyone mature enough to handle such subjects is mature enough not to want to."

Bingo. Thanks, AM! That expresses what I feel exactly

-clash

Quote from: KenHRStuart said pretty much what I would have said.

I'm not a "Swine War" person, but it really does seem that this poll has been put up in bad faith.

This and what Jeff Rients said. Emphasized.

-clash

Quote from: Zachary The FirstI don't know where the specific line is, but I have a suspicion it has more to do with how lovingly and graphically detailed said descriptions are than what actually goes on.  There's a huge difference between subtle hints or off-screen items, such as possible rape or child molestation, and then there's bubbling happily about such events, cheerfully describing them, and laughing about "basking in the description or (in-game) pursuit of said events.

What would concern me more is someone reveling in said nastiness, considering it enjoyable or holding it up as something worthy of admiration.

QFT