Settembrini:

I think it's actually easier than you're making it sound. Make one saving throw for the whole band, make or break. I do this sometimes for spells as well...it's not a big deal with groups of similar monsters.

If those twelve kobolds have an ogre leader, well, they're probably not going to break, but if the ogre gets wounded, fails his individual morale save, and breaks, then you can roll for them as a group too.

I don't see this as one of those tweaks which makes or breaks the system.

Well, I´m just saying you have to consider it.
It´s definitely well within the realm of 3.5 mechanics, especially if you take into account the nice "fear levels".

Not to derail this thread...

but based on those great Stormbringer+Dwarven Forge pics...

You should most definitely take pics of your 3.5+Dwarven Forge game.

Skills: don't stress it. Give them what skills you think they'll need, or ignore all but spot and listen altogether (unless it'sa climber or sneaky-type critter).

Morale: Again, don't stress it. If you really need a random roll you can use the will save. Usually though, it can be kinda obvious when things have gone South and it's time to flee.

Monster creation: again, don't sweat it. Make what you think will be the appropriate challenge for the scene and eyeball its CR at that. If it turns out in play that it was more or less powerful than you thought, scratch that CR out and award XP based on the actual challenge. CR is just a guideline anyway, with it's value directly tied to how close to the playtesters' characters your PCs are. A well-built 2nd level party can waffle stomp some CR 5 encounters, and vice versa.

Quote from: enelsonIt's hard  to  impart an old-school feel when playing 3.5.

With 3.5, there is a rule for everything and gamers will use those rules if it provides them benefit.

Whereas back in the day, you might say, "Make a Dex roll to climb that rope." In 3.5, you check the climb section to  determine the DC. Then, if the character has any skill synergies, you apply those as a bonus and then if the equipment is of master quality another bonus applies. A lot of detail is offered and will be exploited by players.

Another thing I noticed is finding secret doors. Maybe it was just the way we played but we would describe what we are doing to find a secret door; "I carefully look at the wall, searching for a crack or pull the torch holder to see it anything happens." The DM may either say it opens or rolls a d6. In 3.5, you make a Search roll. The search roll is for every 10 ft. You need to check the Search section to determine the DC.

None of the above are deal breakers but 3.5 is a different mindset and hard, in my opinion, to play old school. If you want to ignore the many rulesin 3.5,  that's fine but then you are not playing to the strengths of 3.5 (detail and power gaming).

My friends have a fine time playing 3.5 but they all enjoy the min-max of character builds and the power gaming aspect during play.

You will undoubtably have fun but it may not be "old-school" as you  remember it.

OTOH - one of the things that made "old school" "old school" was the willingness of the participants to ignore rules that seemed cumbersome or did not facilitate play well - weapon speed anyone?

So while all of those rules exist in 3.5, and while using them will alter the feel in a way that to many might feel anit-"old school," true old school would screw the climb check and do the Dex check.

This will depend heavily on the "old school"ness of the specific group...

Quote from: James McMurrayA well-built 2nd level party can waffle stomp some CR 5 encounters, and vice versa.

Here's a huge difference from old school right here! You don't "build" a character in old school. The entire concept make no sense!

-clash

Quote from: flyingmiceHere's a huge difference from old school right here! You don't "build" a character in old school. The entire concept make no sense!

-clash

Sure you did - it was simply a less complex buid.  At least, I knew people who did. Paladin's, IIRC, seemed to get abused a bit; YMMV, of course.

QuoteUsually though, it can be kinda obvious when things have gone South and it's time to flee.

Nonono.
It´s about getting basically a spell effect affecting ALL enemies after just one went down. That cannot be ad-hoc-ruled. It´s about strategy, tactics, not believability.

A friend introduced me to a great 3.5 utility for monster advancement...

Monsterforge!

It currently has, IIRC, the SRD monsters, MM2, 3, and Fiend Folio.  Only downside is that you need Excel.

You can mess with creatures easily & it makes skills & feats a breeze.

Now, it's no good for monsters from scratch.  Really, though, you could still say, "I want a huge creature - kinda like a giant - but he has these other special abilities"; use a Giant base, and build from there.

-O

Quote from: James J SkachSure you did - it was simply a less complex buid.  At least, I knew people who did. Paladin's, IIRC, seemed to get abused a bit; YMMV, of course.

No, James. I was there. A character build is a concept I never heard of before 3.0, and remember how old I am and how long I've been playing. Planning the character's future evolution from the beginning was, AFAIK, not done. Optimizing for the present, yes. That's power gaming and has been there from the beginning.  

-clash

Quote from: flyingmiceNo, James. I was there. A character build is a concept I never heard of before 3.0, and remember how old I am and how long I've been playing. Planning the character's future evolution from the beginning was, AFAIK, not done. Optimizing for the present, yes. That's power gaming and has been there from the beginning.  

-clash

Yeah..I forgot...you might even be older than me

Yeah, see, I can remember guys talking about what they were going to do with their character 4 and 8 levels from present.  They were far more limited in their choices (but I do seem to recall the multiclassing thing being a big topic of discussion).

Now I'm talking mostly about my second run of AD&D days which would have been around...I'm guessing..1990, perhaps.  My early runs of AD&D from 1979 or so - you are correct, we didn't think about it that much.  We just drew cool dungeons on this 5-to-the-inch graph paper my father got from work for me and kicked ass.

So, obviously, even my own moves varied across the same system depending on group and era...

Yeah - but by 1990 or so, it wasn't old school any more. Things had changed by then - actually by the mid 1980s. In old school, you "rolled up" a character. I don't mean you took the dice rolls in exact order, even then we allowed re-arranging stats.

-clash

QuoteI don't mean you took the dice rolls in exact order, even then we allowed re-arranging stats.

Fairy-ass narrativist wanker.

Am I the only one who has contemplated diechart driven character advancement for 3.5?  You earned a feat?  Roll percentile dice and I'll tell you what you get.

Quote from: CalithenaFairy-ass narrativist wanker.

Hehehe!

-clash