Quote from: sureshot;1125228Given how well that worked for the 4E GSL for Wotc, banking on gamers being stupid was well a stupid move on Nuchaosium.

Well, they think their fans are all thieves out to steal their IP, as MOB is at pains to remind them at the end of every one of his posts:

Quote[...] But if you want to make a thinly veiled retroclone of Call of Cthulhu, RuneQuest, Pendragon, etc., we didn't open that door.

Quote from: Vile;1125179You should dabble with the idea without using the OGL. Easier and less restrictive.

Sine Nomine doesn't use any OGL for his games. That's something I always think about.

I've also dabbled with replacing the D100 roll-under with D20 roll-under since (+5% = +1), but I need to see how it plays out on the table. In fact, I might flip the math and keep the concepts, but use D20 roll-high. AKA, if you had Sword 60%, that would be Sword 8+ on D20.

AKA, introduce cool bits of D100 systems to the D20 rolling fans.

Quote from: Vile;1125179And then make a Toon clone with d20 mechanics and slap the BRP logo on it, just for fun.

Toon is such a great game! Really great fun. It deserves a reboot and introduction to a new audience.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1125234I've also dabbled with replacing the D100 roll-under with D20 roll-under since (+5% = +1), but I need to see how it plays out on the table. In fact, I might flip the math and keep the concepts, but use D20 roll-high.

I did a quick test of this many years ago, and it seemed to work okay. Allows unlimited progression which I haven't seen a good version for in roll-under D100 or D20.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1125234Toon is such a great game! Really great fun. It deserves a reboot and introduction to a new audience.

It would quickly become the hottest item in the BRP stable.

Seems the general consensus is the same everywhere: don't touch this even with a long stick and plenty of alcohol wipes: https://mdhughes.tech/2020/03/27/chaosiums-system-reference-document/

Such a pity, too, after they went to all the trouble of getting that new logo wrong and setting up an online reference (for 18 pages of rules and a bear stat block).

Quote from: Vile;1125229Well, they think their fans are all thieves out to steal their IP, as MOB is at pains to remind them at the end of every one of his posts:

They are doing what August Derleth did to the Ctulhu Mythos - basically trying to keep everyone from using it without his permission, even though he didn't have the rights to most of it (other than his own work, and the original stuff Arkham House published). Which is kinda fitting, since CoC is really more based on Derleth's idea of a mythos story than HPL's (ignoring the elemental theory stuff, his short novel The Lurker at the Threshold is basically the outline of most CoC scenarios)

It goes a while back though. They threw a fit when WOTC released the Sanity system as open content in Unearthed Arcana 3.5

If you don't want people to adapt and develop your ideas, keep them to yourself. :rolleyes:

Quote from: JeremyR;1125241It goes a while back though. They threw a fit when WOTC released the Sanity system as open content in Unearthed Arcana 3.5

I'm assuming that Wotc paid a licensing fee to Chaosium to use CoC then became angry when Wotc used the sanity system in UA.

If they put as much effort as they do in being SJWs as they would learning copyright law they would come across less as complete and utter idiots.

What they did expect that Wotc or anyone else would pay them a licensing fee and then not use their mechanics.

Quote from: sureshot;1125249If they put as much effort as they do in being SJWs as they would learning copyright law they would come across less as complete and utter idiots.

Pretty sure that's why they got their knickers in a twist over Mongoose putting a few of their precious Gloranthan items in their MRQ1 SRD (nothing much - names of runes and monster stats, no descriptions). Ever since, even when they were still Moon Design, they've been trying to claim Open Content becomes invalid once people lose the original licence they had when they made the Open Content. Jeff is supposed to have a legal background, but it's plainly not in copyright law - though he's pretty handy with vaguely legalistic threats made in the knowledge that most people will fall for them and back off.

Quote from: Vile;1125252Pretty sure that's why they got their knickers in a twist over Mongoose putting a few of their precious Gloranthan items in their MRQ1 SRD (nothing much - names of runes and monster stats, no descriptions). Ever since, even when they were still Moon Design, they've been trying to claim Open Content becomes invalid once people lose the original licence they had when they made the Open Content. Jeff is supposed to have a legal background, but it's plainly not in copyright law - though he's pretty handy with vaguely legalistic threats made in the knowledge that most people will fall for them and back off.

I'm not a lawyer by any means yet I'm not also not going online and in person making wrong claims about copyright law. I'm assuming they have access to the Internet just look it up online if they can't or won't afford an acutal copyright legal expert.

As I said it makes them look like complete and utter idiots.

Quote from: trechriron;11251551. It's 23 pages and is very light on useful info. You could go with tons of other Open Content and combine with Legend to get a better game.
2. It's WAY too restrictive. There's nothing left besides the resistance table (which Mythras/Legend does better anyways). EDIT to add: no sanity, no passions, etc. All restricted IP...
Frankly it was a terrible approach and somewhat useless. It's kind of insulting to be honest. I'm trying to figure out what they hope to gain from it? If you are a publisher, you are going to have to fill in a ton of blanks.

Well I had a look, I won't be using it. I'll stick with the Open Gaming License. They act like they invented d100 mechanics. They didn't. I was using percentile dice to adjudicate game issues long before I ever saw Runequest, and even longer before Basic Roleplaying became a thing. This is one of them examples of the slippery slope Chaosium has always traveled. Back at Ghengis Con I in 1979 when Greg Stafford showed up and setup a booth there he had a banner over his booth claiming Redmoon/Glorantha Runequest was the first true RPG. Of course we laughed at them then for making such a ridiculous claim. It might have actually been true, though. The problem  was that only Greg, and his immediate gaming group from California knew this. In the meanwhile in midwest Dave Arneson and Gary Gygax had gotten together and published an RPG named Dungeons and Dragons in 1974, but most importantly they got this new D&D game into the hands of gamers. I had been playing D&D for years before seeing Runequest, and I never saw Runequest in gaming stores, only at Ghenghis Con I, and then after that in gaming stores. So they were late to the table, despite any claims on their part to the contrary.

Same deal with all this BS now. OOOoooooo We own the D100 mechanics with our BRP license! Yah! Right! Screw that!  Imma make whatever I want using the WOTC Open Gaming LIcense. ...and again, ...they are late to the table with a claim. I might have been more inclined to go with them, if they, ...you know, actually made and released the BRP OGL around 1998 or so, before the release of the Open Game License. But no. Even later than normal, only now, trying to make a claim after twenty years. They would be better off, just keeping their Runequest and Glorantha IP unique and separate from BRP.

For the record, they had issued gaming licenses to other companies for BRP since 1980, but they didn't have an Open Gaming License until about 2012?... or so.

For the record I really like Runequest with it's strike ranks and % based skills. When you think about it though, D&D could easily be a percentile based system, just take the d20 and multiply by 5, and you have a d100 percentile based system. Runequest and BRP is nothing new under the sun, just better organized then D&D using a modified version of the same game mechanics and rules everyone else has used since Dave Arneson invented it.

RuneQuest is great, and Steve Perrin did a really good job in adapting the original D100 D&D thief skills into an entire game system. In the dedication they even thanked Ken St. Andre for opening the way to writing D&D-derivative games to a thousand publishers.

QuoteThis book is dedicated to Dave Arneson and Gary Gygax, who first opened Pandora's box, and to Ken St. Andre, who found it could be opened again.

As MOB states ad infinitum everywhere, this thing isn't designed to let people create retro-clones of RQ7 or COC7. Well, that's not surprising because that would be a first for an OGL. What's not clear is what it is supposed to do, but there are plenty of products out there with no conceivable purpose so this is not the worst offender. What's somewhat puzzling is why there isn't a BRP equivalent of the Jonstown Compendium for RQ7 or the Miskatonic Repository for CoC7 instead. The PR disaster that was Chaosium's failed attempt at scaring Open Cthulhu into shut-down may have something to do with it, who knows. Really, fan publication of monograph-style stand-alone books with a BRP logo on the front seems to be the only niche for this, which I guess is an improvement of the original monograph disaster under old Chaosium.

I wouldn't be interested in a 'clone' of CoC7 anyway, but if someone were to take GORE and flesh it out into a fuller Lovecraftian game... starting from HPL's stories for names and descriptions... what could nuChaosium rightfully grumble about? They don't own the system in GORE or HPL's works... so 'Nuts!' to them.

Quote from: Simlasa;1125326I wouldn't be interested in a 'clone' of CoC7 anyway, but if someone were to take GORE and flesh it out into a fuller Lovecraftian game... starting from HPL's stories for names and descriptions... what could nuChaosium rightfully grumble about? They don't own the system in GORE or HPL's works... so 'Nuts!' to them.

That is essentially Open Cthulhu, isn't it?

Quote from: sureshot;1125249If they put as much effort as they do in being SJWs as they would learning copyright law they would come across less as complete and utter idiots.

Okay, I know I have been out of the loop for a while, but what did Chaosium do that made them SJW's? This isn't an attack on your belief or denial of any facts, I am honestly asking. I never thought their company could ever be ALLOWED to be brought into the Liberal fold, as many of their historical settings are played straight. They don't seem too focused on changing history. Now I haven't seen the final print of Cthulhu Dark Ages 3rd Edition, but the 2015 GenCon copy I have makes it clear that having female investigators is no where near the norm (but they did provide examples of a few women that were warriors or had power).

I seemed to have missed something. This may also affect whether I ever use their license (doubtful I will at this point based on the wording), but still good to know.

Quote from: Eldritch_Knight;1125334That is essentially Open Cthulhu, isn't it?

From what I've read, Open Cthulhu uses chunks of the Delta Green OGL (?) as well... which I don't think existed when GORE was written. It also appears to be much more expansive and thorough than GORE. Like, GORE has no creatures statted out. It has suggestions for creature abilities and characteristic scores (and illustrations of various well-known Lovecraft critters)... but no pre-fab bestiary.