In one thread, there was a link that brought you to the Harn Pottage material. Giving it a quick skim, it intrigued me. If one were to get into Harnmaster and the world of Harn, what materials are the most essential. I'm guessing the rules:), and I see Harnmaster Light for not too much. What past that though? Thank you!
Quote from: RunningLaser;823541In one thread, there was a link that brought you to the Harn Pottage material. Giving it a quick skim, it intrigued me. If one were to get into Harnmaster and the world of Harn, what materials are the most essential. I'm guessing the rules:), and I see Harnmaster Light for not too much. What past that though? Thank you!
Harnmaster is a good RPG but the Harn experience is centered around the setting which is presented for the most part system neutral.
Note it is a premium line so it is pricey. It is organized into a series of articles that are meant to be put into a three ring binder.
The core setting products are
Harnworld
(http://www.columbiagames.com/cgi-bin/query/harn/cfg/single.cfg?product_id=5001)
Harnworld includes the Harn map.
Harndex (http://www.columbiagames.com/cgi-bin/query/harn/cfg/single.cfg?product_id=5002)
From there you pick out which kingdom you want to set your campaign in. For example say you choose Kaldor.
You get the Kingdom of Kaldor (http://www.columbiagames.com/cgi-bin/query/harn/cfg/single.cfg?product_id=5610) Article
Then you probably want the largest city in the Kingdom in this case Tashal (http://www.columbiagames.com/cgi-bin/query/harn/cfg/single.cfg?product_id=5611).
After that is pretty much what you want more detail on. I known people who use just the Harndex for their campaign.
If you are interested in the RPG. The core rules are only $10 (http://www.columbiagames.com/cgi-bin/query/harn/cfg/single.cfg?product_id=4001L). If you want character sheets you can get the boxed set for $30 (http://www.columbiagames.com/cgi-bin/query/harn/cfg/single.cfg?product_id=4001).
From there you will want to get Magic, Religion and the various Bestiary Article. The core rules does have monster but in abbreviated stat blocks. The Harndex does some detail, but no stats, on some of the monsters.
It is a premium line with a dedicated fan base. So it not for everybody wallet. I been collecting all the Harn stuff since the mid 80s and have just about everything they ever produced. I rarely ever run Harn or Harnmaster but I do use the various articles in my Majestic Wilderlands to supply local level detail when I am pressed for time.
Thanks Estar:)
I'm going to really think on this one and approach it with caution, because there's a lot of stuff and man, it's not a cheap line, is it?
Quote from: RunningLaser;823719Thanks Estar:)
I'm going to really think on this one and approach it with caution, because there's a lot of stuff and man, it's not a cheap line, is it?
No it is not cheap. But unlike say Mongoose Traveller or some other RPG Publishers they go the extra mile to ensure everything is top notch.
Again starting with the core stuff I mention and a kingdom module plus city is the way to get your feet wet without breaking the bank.
And the nice thing is that because Harn is low fantasy medieval world and so many RPGs, because of D&D, are fantasy medieval worlds. Just about everything in Harn is useful in another systems and most settings. And the setting products are 95% system neutral.
And the recent years is seeing a renaissance in Harn publishing. With new types of articles coming. For example the Silver Way is about a trail. At first go huh? How can there be anything interesting about a trail? Then you read the Silver Way you understand what make the Silver Way different than travelling the Salt Route or the Genin Trail.
The people over at Kelestia.com are focusing on Lythia (the continent that Harn is part of). They tend to release more voluminous products also of excellent quality. None of is required to enjoy and play Harn itself but definitely adds to it. Especially Venarive (the Harn equivalent of Europe) and the Summa Venarive which is a social history of Venarive.
Now you would think a social history would be a bit might and how on earth would be useful at a game table. While it is well written, I admit a lot of it is entertainment for the Harn Fan. But does have utility in that it gives good explanation for how people act in the world of Harn. It cover nearly all of society and serves as a good foundation to roleplaying specific NPCs.
And again because all of this is grounded in a low fantasy Medieval world, elements can be ported over to many setting rather easily.
The reason there are two companies, (Kelestia, and Columbia Games) is that N Robin Crossby the author of Harn and Columbia Games had a falling out over money and various technical reasons. They felt they both had a stake in Harn's copyrights and started publishing separately.
In general Columbia Game focuses on Harn and getting older products out in print. Kelestia focuses on the main continent and the world outside of Harn. While they don't get along they don't try to stomp on each other toes either. It helps that the production of official products for both are produced by teams of elite fans and that everybody interacts at the Lythia.com forums.
There is strong social pressure on both sides not to fuck it up. And as you can see from the stuff on Lythia.com the fanbase is very capable of producing quality Harn material themselves.
Again, thanks for all of this info:) With the Harndex, does it have to be the 3rd edition? I found a cheaper one that looks to be for an earlier edition.
Quote from: RunningLaser;823749Again, thanks for all of this info:) With the Harndex, does it have to be the 3rd edition? I found a cheaper one that looks to be for an earlier edition.
3rd Edition is the best so far. But if you are budget constrained go for it.
What 3rd edition does is put back in all the missing 1st edition entries, mostly notes on old rulers and add color mini-maps and illustrations.
But 2nd edition does have all the essential information.
I saw a 'bestiary' entry for the rabbit once. I went "huh, they charge money for this?" and have never looked at the line again.
Yeah, 2 dollars for 4 pages about Rabbits. I like Harn, but their prices make Frog God Games look sane, which is saying something.
Quote from: CRKrueger;823818Yeah, 2 dollars for 4 pages about Rabbits. I like Harn, but their prices make Frog God Games look sane, which is saying something.
Yeah, no argument that its pricey - but there sales approach is one of the things I like about CG. If rabbits aren't your thing, don't buy that supplement. Their products are sold individually, so pick up what you like. Heck, rabbits are just the beginning of the mundane details. The Bestiary line has (to date) 22 pages on birds, 10 on cats, 10 on horses, and 2 on goats - not to mention the seals, sheep, snakes, and swine : ) I have most of the collection, so you can tell I am biased, but those articles are surprisingly good. I will grant, though, that only us crazy Harniac collect everything (and that is not to mention the added cost of binders and the plastic sleeves that most of us store the pages in). But if you stick to one region, say Kaldor or Kanday, I think the price/value is quite high as there is strikingly little fluff IMHO. I am currently running a campaign in the Orbaal region (think Vikings) with only that supplement - there's more adventure in that area than I know what to do with. And very few companies combine official and fan products like Harn. I would wager that there is almost more free (quality) material out there than the official.
Oh, and I am not using the core rule, but Burning Wheel. As Estar said, the setting and system are connected but also designed to be independent.
Quote from: CRKrueger;823818Yeah, 2 dollars for 4 pages about Rabbits. I like Harn, but their prices make Frog God Games look sane, which is saying something.
It actually 2 pages.
So there never any circumstance where a rabbit product is warranted?
Folks can see the preview here and judge for themselves.
http://www.rpgnow.com/product/112893/Rabbits?term=rabbit&manufacturers_id=2182
The reason it exists because one year Columbia Games decided to produce some small holiday themed articles. Bats for Halloween and Rabbits for Easter among them.
They are full color and done with the usual attention to detail and include tidbits like this.
QuoteIn Jarin folklore, hares are associated with the spirit folk and are often used by faeries as a kind of steed. In southern Hârnic lore, witches are believed to take the form of a white hare while searching for victims; seeing one is considered very unlucky. In Peonian fables, the hare is often a trickster but sometimes a fool. Both the hare and the rabbit (coney) are commonly represented in heraldry.
In this case details include hunting notes, prices, and agricultural detail for HarnManor.
Now some will look at this as overkill. The whole Harn line is overkill. Magnificent overkill that is useful not only to run Harn but other similar medievalish settings like Greyhawk or Forgotten Realms.
You don't really need a Cadillac or a Rolls Royce to transport you around. A Chevy is just fine. But it is nice that if you want that kind of experience in a car those brands are around.
The Harn line is a premium high end product in the world of RPGs. Not in the sense they took an regular product and slapped on a expensive cover. But there is attention to detail and good art from top to bottom.
You can buy a Harn product from 1989 and it will work any product released in recent years. They are just that good at what they do.
Quote from: CRKrueger;823818Yeah, 2 dollars for 4 pages about Rabbits. I like Harn, but their prices make Frog God Games look sane, which is saying something.
Sure, but it's the best Rabbits article you can get! :)
To answer the OP, the only really essential items for the setting are Harnworld and Harndex. To save some money, and see if it's for you, I'd recommend buying the second edition used (ebay or wherever), which has both books and the map in a folder or box (it varied over time).
From there, everything else adds detail, but is not essential. As others have mentioned there is a RIDICULOUS amount of high quality free fan made material available at lythia.com. Digest that and then spend more money if you want.
As for the system, some people like Harnmaster, some use something else. It's not essential either.
Quote from: CRKrueger;823818Yeah, 2 dollars for 4 pages about Rabbits. I like Harn, but their prices make Frog God Games look sane, which is saying something.
The truly sad thing is that despite how overprized most Harn material is, the game's price to quality ratio is still fairly above average when compared to the vast majority of available games.
My first experience with Runequest 6 was playing in a Harn campaign. The two went together beautifully.
Harn is quite good, the only reason I don't purchase more of it is that frankly worldbuilding is one of my passions as a GM, and I don't want to use someone else's materials anymore. When I was younger I devoured the products of other people, these days I indulge my own creativity.
I am truly sorry for bumping this old thread, but I just jumped into Harn and am looking for some advice. I felt this might be better than starting a new thread.
I've decided I'm going to sub to Harnquest for the 50% discount on PDFs, then print those off on Lulu so I can have nice hardbacks of the things I want to print, but I'm struggling with what might be the most effective way to print them. A prime example being the Bestiary - would it be smart to get the bestiary, the extra articles on dogs, snakes, etc., and move the Harnmaster core bestiary articles on Garguun and Ivashu into the Bestiary I'm printing?
Should I print all or some of the magic articles with the core rules?
I guess I'm curious how some of you have your binders organized, because printing a hardback isn't possible to change like I could with a binder so I'm stuck with whatever I decide on.
The 50% Harnquest discount is awesome, and don't forget that any PDF you order directly from Columbia gives you additional discounts on future purchases as well.
I think there's a drivethrurpg bundle that costs $10 and gives you both Harnworld and Kingdom of Kaldor or whatever.
Quote from: rkhigdon on January 30, 2023, 12:06:10 PM
The 50% Harnquest discount is awesome, and don't forget that any PDF you order directly from Columbia gives you additional discounts on future purchases as well.
Yes, tho if you use the earned dollars on a purchase you cannot use the 50% off discount on the same purchase. Dollars are best for purchasing small and therefore lower-priced supplements at more than 50% off, since it's hard to get them in bulk without major spending. Or so I understand.
For fan-made content: https://www.lythia.com/
I can't vouch for most of what I'm saying strongly, though, since I barely have $30 worth of Harn stuff between the drivethrurpg lore starter pack, and HarnQuest as of a week ago. Harnworld was cool, but it's a good thing for my wallet that it came as part of the bundle. Harn Quest got me like 50 cents a page on 40 pages, but I mostly just got it for the pdf purchasing. For some reason though my subscription hasn't registered yet, so my journey into Harnmaster is presently stalled.
It took about 5 days for Columbia to get my discount applied. I went ahead and did the Print+pdf for it, the extra cost was negligible and I want hard copies but might not want those printed in a hardback or I can always re-print a new one every couple years.
Like someone said earlier in the thread, the prices are a little (or a lot, depending on what you buy) higher than other publishers, but I also think the quality and polish on the articles is far higher and more useful so I don't really mind it. I spend $50 on books I'll never use a single page from all the time.
Quote from: shoplifter on January 30, 2023, 11:59:21 AM
I've decided I'm going to sub to Harnquest for the 50% discount on PDFs, then print those off on Lulu so I can have nice hardbacks of the things I want to print, but I'm struggling with what might be the most effective way to print them. A prime example being the Bestiary - would it be smart to get the bestiary, the extra articles on dogs, snakes, etc., and move the Harnmaster core bestiary articles on Garguun and Ivashu into the Bestiary I'm printing?
Get the Bestiary first and then the other articles separately a better deal. Remember it all loose leaf so organized how you see fit.
Quote from: shoplifter on January 30, 2023, 11:59:21 AM
Should I print all or some of the magic articles with the core rules?
There is enough that I keep three separate one inch binders for Core, Magic, and Religion and two inch binder for the bestiary.
Quote from: shoplifter on January 30, 2023, 11:59:21 AM
I guess I'm curious how some of you have your binders organized, because printing a hardback isn't possible to change like I could with a binder so I'm stuck with whatever I decide on.
Unless specified I am using 1-inch binders.
My current division is
Harnmaster
Religion
Magic
Harnmanor
Bestiary (2-inch)
Barbarian
Kaldor (2-inch)
Tharda
Azadmere
Chybisa
Kanday
Rethem
Evael
Orbaal
Harnworld (2-inch) Which has the Harndex and the Map Squares as well
Wilderness (2-inch)
Lore (2-inch)
Guilds and Crafts
Friend, Followers, and Foes
You can get all the binder labels and some of the cover page from here
https://www.dropbox.com/s/zeodux5o1yaw1s2/covers%26spines.pdf?dl=0
Hope this helps.
Quote from: shoplifter on January 30, 2023, 01:22:06 PM
It took about 5 days for Columbia to get my discount applied. I went ahead and did the Print+pdf for it, the extra cost was negligible and I want hard copies but might not want those printed in a hardback or I can always re-print a new one every couple years.
Like someone said earlier in the thread, the prices are a little (or a lot, depending on what you buy) higher than other publishers, but I also think the quality and polish on the articles is far higher and more useful so I don't really mind it. I spend $50 on books I'll never use a single page from all the time.
The fact that it took a while even for both a print and pdf subscriber gives me hope, since I'd assume mine was probably just delayed. (Pdf only.) I think I'll go check for today after posting this.
Sorry if the price stuff came a bit late and/or was irrelevant to the thread. Somehow got it into my head that you hadn't bought the pdfs yet. Harnworld is a pretty awesome supplement more generally, I agree, and Harn seems like a great world/system. That said, kinda just wanted to share the deals and free content I found online if you didn't yet know about them. $10 for $80 worth of content is a steal.
Okay, I actually do have it registering the subscription now. I'm probably gonna go digital, possibly with some folders of related items rather than use binders, but estar seems to have a pretty solid organization from what admittedly little I understand. I assume things like potions and herblore probably go under guilds and crafts, in the crafts half? Would law, cosmology and the like go under lore? Or is that just Harnlore publications?
Also, for those who have actually made purchases, such as probably most folks on this thread, do you think Harnmaster 3rd, religion, magic, and Harn manor would be a good place to start, alongside harndex, if I already have Harnworld? For Harnmaster, that is. My prospective group hasn't yet decided on a kingdom/setting but seem somewhat prospectively interested in play.
Those are exactly what I bought, aside from HarnManor which is going to be my next major purchase.
You could probably even hold off on Harnmanor for a bit if you needed to. I really like it for general use, but it's not absolutely necessary to start a campaign.
I used Harn back in the day. After not playing for decades I started to re-read the stuff and its a bit much.
Anyway, I found that Harnworld and Cities of Harn were all I needed (that was all that was available early on anyway) back then. The depth of the material made it easy to improvise nearly everything. And the slow roll-out (back then) made it easy to absorb the info.
That is the real problem with Harn, and its greatest asset, is the depth of it all. Absorbing and keeping track of the massive amount of information can be a chore. I suggest setting a campaign in an area and getting what you need about that area and then you can expand out as you need and really absorbing that your Harn doesn't have to be perfect to the published Harn.
Note - I found Rethem the most ripe with possibilities with civil war and hostile neighbors.
It's a fun game!
I suggest HarnWorld whatever edition if you want to use Harn, if not chose aa HarnMaster and go. Making characters can be a mess and take a while, but you get quicker and quicker as you learn the rules. Very front loaded would be a way to put it. It's hard to even play D&D after doing some battles in Harn. :)
Bumping this to note that Kelestia's new edition of Hârnmaster is now available, with printed copies coming late this year. Also includes a 20% off sale on most products, with a slightly higher discount on the Venarive and Kethira products. I picked up Venarive, and it's insanely detailed.
https://www.kelestia.com
QuoteThe long wait is over, the new edition of HârnMaster is finally here! Combining the sophisticated and timeless core elements of N. Robin Crossby's original HârnMaster and HârnMaster Gold with a widened scope, new ideas, and refinements, this latest version is the perfect rules system for both Hârn veterans and newcomers to explore with it the entirety of Kèthîra, the World of Hârn (including the island of Hârn itself).
HârnMaster: Roleplaying in the World of Kethira (HMK) comes in three formats: 1) as a purely digital PDF version (fully bookmarked and suitable for home printing), 2) as the printed Standard Edition, and 3) as the printed Collector's Edition. The two printed hardback formats have different covers (the Collector's Edition has an elegant leatherette cover featuring the Pvaric Wheel), but their interior is 100 % the same. Both printed formats also include the PDF version as a bonus.
The PDF version is available immediately after purchase, which is true for both the stand-alone PDF and the bonus PDF that comes with the printed versions. The physical books (Standard and Collector's Edition) will go into production in September, with an estimated arrival at the purchasers' doors in November (we will keep you updated on this approximation throughout the process).
We hope HMK will bring you and your friends countless hours of fun throughout many exciting campaigns and adventures set on Kèthîra -- or another game world of your choice. This marks the start of a new era for Hârn. Happy roleplaying!
Oh, one more thing... To celebrate the release of HMK, we're having a store-wide sale until September 30. All products except for HMK are discounted by 20 %. The Venârivè and Kèthîra modules receive a special discount. If you don't own them yet, this is the perfect time to get them! Head on over to the store.
Quote from: crkrueger on April 03, 2015, 04:41:01 PMYeah, 2 dollars for 4 pages about Rabbits. I like Harn, but their prices make Frog God Games look sane, which is saying something.
How the mighty have fallen.
Quote from: RunningLaser on April 02, 2015, 05:18:33 PMIn one thread, there was a link that brought you to the Harn Pottage material. Giving it a quick skim, it intrigued me. If one were to get into Harnmaster and the world of Harn, what materials are the most essential. I'm guessing the rules:), and I see Harnmaster Light for not too much. What past that though? Thank you!
Looking at my 28 3-ring binders full of Harn material I have to say everything is essential :)
Quote from: Omega on August 30, 2024, 05:58:00 PMQuote from: crkrueger on April 03, 2015, 04:41:01 PMYeah, 2 dollars for 4 pages about Rabbits. I like Harn, but their prices make Frog God Games look sane, which is saying something.
How the mighty have fallen.
Actually, I misspoke, Rabbits are in the Bestiary, 110 pages for $50.00.
Cattle, though is separate, at $3.00 for 6 pages.
Keep in mind, at Columbia Games, the physical copy and pdf are separate purchases. Only in the new Kickstarters do you get pdf if you buy the hardcover.
Quote from: Jason Coplen on January 30, 2023, 10:31:58 PMIt's a fun game!
I suggest HarnWorld whatever edition if you want to use Harn, if not chose aa HarnMaster and go. Making characters can be a mess and take a while, but you get quicker and quicker as you learn the rules. Very front loaded would be a way to put it. It's hard to even play D&D after doing some battles in Harn. :)
That is a problem I've noticed with good combat systems like Harnmaster and Mythras. It ruins other games you used to enjoy because the combat is so non-sensical or dull.
Quote from: crkrueger on September 25, 2024, 03:21:36 PMQuote from: Jason Coplen on January 30, 2023, 10:31:58 PMIt's a fun game!
I suggest HarnWorld whatever edition if you want to use Harn, if not chose aa HarnMaster and go. Making characters can be a mess and take a while, but you get quicker and quicker as you learn the rules. Very front loaded would be a way to put it. It's hard to even play D&D after doing some battles in Harn. :)
That is a problem I've noticed with good combat systems like Harnmaster and Mythras. It ruins other games you used to enjoy because the combat is so non-sensical or dull.
I can DM a D&D based game for a while, but after RQ and HarnMaster I find D&D too superhero-y at about level 5. Inflating HP is a mess, and has always been a mess. I'm prepping for Baptism of Fire (to start after I move shortly in several weeks. I hope.). I hope it solves the too many HP problem of D&D. I get the D&D appeal, but RQ turned me off D&D when it comes to combat. Sure, it's not as whimsically high-powered as D&D, but, you know what, I don't need high-powered anymore. I tried for many years to get D&D to work better for me, but I keep failing. It keeps me busy trying to figure it out.
What's worse is that I watch shows and still think in D&D terms. I go, oh hey, he's a 7th level Fighter. Heh.
Oddly, I can play older D&D and do okay, but for GMing it flops.
I actually yet have to play Mythras. I've made several characters for it, and I find character creation to be nice and much easier than RQ3.
One thing worth getting from Harn is the adventure 100 Bushels of Rye. It is a very grounded adventure
Quote from: crkrueger on September 25, 2024, 03:21:36 PMThat is a problem I've noticed with good combat systems like Harnmaster and Mythras. It ruins other games you used to enjoy because the combat is so non-sensical or dull.
Yeah, I have been away from rpgs for 20 years but spent my last 15 years before that with HârnMaster. I can't for all in me play other rules than HârnMaster now that I have returned. I love to read OSE, Dragonslayer and even Dragonbane (though there are modern stuff in it that make me say "no this won't happen") but that is it. And once you get it, the system is fast and tactical.
Quote from: Dongmaster on September 30, 2024, 03:43:03 PMQuote from: crkrueger on September 25, 2024, 03:21:36 PMThat is a problem I've noticed with good combat systems like Harnmaster and Mythras. It ruins other games you used to enjoy because the combat is so non-sensical or dull.
Yeah, I have been away from rpgs for 20 years but spent my last 15 years before that with HârnMaster. I can't for all in me play other rules than HârnMaster now that I have returned. I love to read OSE, Dragonslayer and even Dragonbane (though there are modern stuff in it that make me say "no this won't happen") but that is it. And once you get it, the system is fast and tactical.
It's hard to return to inflating HP and goofy combat after playing HarnMaster and her cousins (RuneQuest, Mythras, Chivalry & Sorcery, etc.). I spend time reading other games, and I think they could be fine games for people not named me. :)