Quote from: droog;244767The other thing it does is to make sure that the GM knows nothing about the plans of any particular PC. Like the slave-owning class, he's largely blind to what the slaves really want and does nothing, except by chance, to help or hinder them.

See, this is where my head starts to hurt when it comes to "indie" games. They have such a narrow and adversarial view of what the GM's role is: the players are the slaves and the GM is the slave-owner and they are somehow pitted against each other. I find it funny that one of the key aspects of games like D&D which gets criticised in those circles is that games are all about the DM devising death traps and dungeons to kill off his players - when in fact most indie games are way more adversarial than that. There's no sense of the GM as fair and independent arbitrator (which would necessitate him or her being in the room).

I also can't imagine how it works in practice. So the GM goes out of the room. Meanwhile the players decide, "Let's try to dig a tunnel." The GM comes back into the room. The players tell him, "We're going to try to dig a tunnel."

I'm not trying to be facetious, it just sounds like a gimmick. Has anyone played the game? Can you enlighten?

Quote from: noisms;244866I'm not trying to be facetious, it just sounds like a gimmick. Has anyone played the game? Can you enlighten?

I'm going to run and I'll let you know. Honestly though it will probably turn out like any other rpg session - which is not a criticism btw - which is how most of these indie games eventually play out despite the best hype of their designers....(IMO, IME ect)

Regards,
David R

Quote from: noisms;244866I also can't imagine how it works in practice. So the GM goes out of the room. Meanwhile the players decide, "Let's try to dig a tunnel." The GM comes back into the room. The players tell him, "We're going to try to dig a tunnel."

When you make a chr, you list several goals, along with associated tasks you need to pull off in order to achieve them. You as the player can't rely on the GM to introduce stuff for you to do towards your goals, so you have to make things happen for you. Otherwise I think it works pretty much as normal.

Quote from: droog;244892When you make a chr, you list several goals, along with associated tasks you need to pull off in order to achieve them. You as the player can't rely on the GM to introduce stuff for you to do towards your goals, so you have to make things happen for you. Otherwise I think it works pretty much as normal.

Ah, I see. Okay, that makes more sense. It's actually something that might be cool to try with a sandbox-y, old school game. For example, you could create a character whose goal is to exact revenge on the Duke of Dunderheadshire or somesuch, and work towards that aim without telling the DM.

Quote from: David R;244810I have to ask estar....why "snowflake"....

I think it was half because the character was a white haired elf and the other half because of the way word sounded when my co-DM used it.

Quote from: noisms;244922Ah, I see. Okay, that makes more sense. It's actually something that might be cool to try with a sandbox-y, old school game. For example, you could create a character whose goal is to exact revenge on the Duke of Dunderheadshire or somesuch, and work towards that aim without telling the DM.

It is kinda of hard for the player to get away with NOT telling the DM even if they actively tried. Hiding only works for short term tactical scenarios. In the long term the DM is refereeing the entire world. Either the players do enough things for the DM to figure out the plan despite the overseer or master still not knowing or the player will interact with potential allies thus spilling the plan anyway.

Quote from: estar;244958It is kinda of hard for the player to get away with NOT telling the DM even if they actively tried. Hiding only works for short term tactical scenarios. In the long term the DM is refereeing the entire world. Either the players do enough things for the DM to figure out the plan despite the overseer or master still not knowing or the player will interact with potential allies thus spilling the plan anyway.

I see your point, but I still think it could work if the players are cunning about concealing what they are trying to do. Of course it would become very "gamey" in that the players would be pulling out all kinds of tricks to throw the DM off the scent. But I'd like to give it a try.

So, the more I think about it, the more appealing the game seems given the ideas and themes people wrote about. Maybe I'll give it a try sometime when I've got some spare dough. Another game to add to the list?

I've run this game. It is tightly focussed and enjoyable, and the mechanics do bring out the theme. The players work out their characters goals without the GM being present, and when I GM'ed I simply did not concern myself with the motives of the PCs, nor did I have to listen to the players whine about their inner lives. I could just concentrate on the motives and goals of the NPCs. Other mechanics support play, too. There is a die, the skull die, which any player can roll if he or she thinks that it's worth substantially risking their character's life over something; playing card are used for magic and the dice mechanic (the GM sets your worth in dice) for example. It really encouraged good roleplaying amongst the players.

The only problem with our session was due to some spectacularly bad rolling on my part, the slaves did rather better than perhaps they should have done.

There were lots of good scenes but one favourite was the death of the overseer, and how the other slaves helped the root doctor cause his downfall. The house slave leant a few dice by polishing the stairs extra shiny, another slave made sure the overseer was in his cups, and the instigator came round late at night mock him. The overseer tumbled down the stairs drunk and smashed his head on the balustrade.

It's far less preachy (if preachy at all) than I thought it would be, and I'd happily play it again.

Quote from: Pelgrane;245635I've run this game. It is tightly focussed and enjoyable, and the mechanics do bring out the theme. The players work out their characters goals without the GM being present, and when I GM'ed I simply did not concern myself with the motives of the PCs...

So wait, do they just secretly check off lines on this list and then proclaim "Eureka!" when they get to the last one, informing the GM that they've done what they set out to do? an you elaborate on how this works, cuz it sounds like it could either be really, really cool or really, really mind-numbingly retarded.

-=Grim=-

Quote from: GrimJesta;245753So wait, do they just secretly check off lines on this list and then proclaim "Eureka!" when they get to the last one, informing the GM that they've done what they set out to do? an you elaborate on how this works, cuz it sounds like it could either be really, really cool or really, really mind-numbingly retarded.

-=Grim=-

You choose goals during character creation. Each goal has associated motives, and each motive suggests a task. Some goals are major, and are less likely to be achievable, others are minor and short term. You add a die to your worth when you complete a task. The GM simply doesn't concern himself with these, and the players don't discuss them with the GM.

You can replace, change, or delete goals, motives and tasks as the circumstances in the game change.

As GM, it was impossible not to guess some of the characters' goals, but many of them came as a surprise - they were pretty subtle about their task choices. Most players revealed their goals only at the end of the game, although one triumphantly exclaimed that they had completed a goal during the session.

One very disconcerting thing I noticed was that all the players refused to meet my gaze when they were playing slaves, and I an overseer.

Quote from: Pelgrane;245992One very disconcerting thing I noticed was that all the players refused to meet my gaze when they were playing slaves, and I an overseer.

That's kinda cool but kinda fucked up. Heh.

I think I like that "Objective" thingy. I wonder if it'd be easy to do something like this for Savage Worlds characters, but instead of gaining dice you gain a Benny. The objectives would be set at the beginning of each session, since Bennies gained are lost at the end of the night.

-=Grim=-