Quote from: Razor 007;1085427I too like Original Dungeons & Dragons; with its 1d6-1, 1d6, and 1d6+1 weapon damage scale.  It helps keep the Dagger relevant.

Those values actually translate to 1d4, 1d6, and 1d8, respectively, so it's not really that different.

Non-Greyhawk OD&D actually had every weapon do 1d6, no exceptions. Only monsters and magic-items were able to increase damage. The theory is that stabbing someone in the chest with dagger should do just as much damage as stabbing someone in the chest with a sword or hitting someone on the head with hammer. You would die, regardless, and hence all do 1d6.

Many people don't like that though since they think a two-handed longsword should be able to kill you easier than a dagger. In reality, both are deadly in the right hands. (Or left hands as it were...)

Using class damage you could say that wizards to 1d4 damage, regardless of weapon. 1d6 if two-handed. Likewise:

Thieves = 1d6 damage. 1d8 if two-handed or dual-wield.
Clerics = 1d8 damage. 1d10 if two-handed.
Fighters = 1d10 damage. 1d12 if two-handed. Etc...

Something like that, anyway, the idea being that you basically match the class hit die to a class "damage die."

Quote from: JeremyR;1085247I'm skeptical that someone would die from one stab of a kitchen knife.

I mean, they could kill, but you'd have to have the cooperation of the victim by them just standing there and that's a coup de grace attack (and fatal)

My country's current president suffered an assassination attempt while on campaign.

Single kitchen knife strike to the abdomen. He was immediately incapacitated and would've died if not for prompt medical attention. His intestines were perforated in three places and he was at risk for septicemia.

You'd be surprised at what a knife attack can do.

Here's video of the attack:

[video=youtube;1jO685x3F8E]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jO685x3F8E[/youtube]

In O and BX D&D all weapons did 1d6. Expert shifted that so daggers did a d4. Note that everyone had lower HD back then. The fighter, dwarf and cleric used a d8.

Upping the damage die is not really a good solution. Instead consider the older cleave rule from AD&D where when fighting low level foes a fighter at the very least could kill as many in one swing as they had attacks. Think it was anything with less than a d8 HD? Kobolds, goblins, some humans.

Quote from: Omega;1085469Instead consider the older cleave rule from AD&D where when fighting low level foes a fighter at the very least could kill as many in one swing as they had attacks. Think it was anything with less than a d8 HD? Kobolds, goblins, some humans.

As I recall, the rule was that Fighters got a number of attacks equal to their level (e.g., 5 attacks at 5th level) when fighting foes of 1 HD or less.  This rule was why hobgoblins were something of a big deal among the standard low-level enemy roster - they had 1+1 HD, so Fighters had to kill them one at a time instead of taking them out en masse with one-attack-per-level.

Quote from: BronzeDragon;1085466My country's current president suffered an assassination attempt while on campaign.

Single kitchen knife strike to the abdomen. He was immediately incapacitated and would've died if not for prompt medical attention. His intestines were perforated in three places and he was at risk for septicemia.

Clearly a Surprise attack by a mid-level Rogue (Assassin).

Seriously, standard weapon damage like d4+2 for a DEX 14 attacker with dagger assumes the target is active & defending himself. So defense wounds are more likely than insta-kill.

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1085383That's quite an anecdote to drop into an RPG discussion...

I'm sorry if it was too gruesome for the subject at hand. Unfortunately, it's not the only such anecdote I have. I work on the fixing people side of things, not the shooting or stabbing. I just wanted to chime in because my experience with human injuries of various kinds allows me to just write off RPG damage as a game device, it's simply not possible to model reality at all here.

Quote from: nDervish;1085503As I recall, the rule was that Fighters got a number of attacks equal to their level (e.g., 5 attacks at 5th level) when fighting foes of 1 HD or less.  This rule was why hobgoblins were something of a big deal among the standard low-level enemy roster - they had 1+1 HD, so Fighters had to kill them one at a time instead of taking them out en masse with one-attack-per-level.

Think you are right. Books are in storage so cant check.

Quote from: Beldar;1085545I'm sorry if it was too gruesome for the subject at hand. Unfortunately, it's not the only such anecdote I have. I work on the fixing people side of things, not the shooting or stabbing. I just wanted to chime in because my experience with human injuries of various kinds allows me to just write off RPG damage as a game device, it's simply not possible to model reality at all here.

Exactly. People keep wanting to make guns insta-kill weapons and reality says very very differently. D&D HP model the vaugarities of combat pretty well. Being both stamina, luck, and a little meat.

Quote from: nDervish;1085503As I recall, the rule was that Fighters got a number of attacks equal to their level (e.g., 5 attacks at 5th level) when fighting foes of 1 HD or less.  This rule was why hobgoblins were something of a big deal among the standard low-level enemy roster - they had 1+1 HD, so Fighters had to kill them one at a time instead of taking them out en masse with one-attack-per-level.

Quote from: Omega;1085556Think you are right. Books are in storage so cant check.

It is correct...Hobgoblins were serious bad news because of it.

Quote from: Razor 007;1085232Just to make it easier to Ace a Low Level Opponent, with a Single Blow; at Max Damage.

Leave PC Hit Points, and Monster Stats as they are.

A high damage strike with a Dagger, currently leaves almost any opponent still standing.  Kobolds, Goblins, and Untrained NPCs should be totally vulnerable to a high damage strike from a Dagger.

What PC Hit Points are we talking about here? Do thieves get a d6 or a d4? Do fighters get a d10 or a d8? Do clerics get a d8 or a d6?

d20 Conan boosts weapon damage across the board, but then armor is (usually) DR so it balances out.

Quote from: Kael;1085376In fact, I prefer class damage to weapon damage for just this reason. If classes have static hit dice, why not static damage dice too? Monster's defaulting to a d8 seems even more reasonable in this case.

I've done that and it works fine, but with some modifiers (-1 die size to daggers, +1 die size to 2H weapons).

It gives fighters more choice (and more badass with bows) and now your wizard gets to have a sword!

Quote from: Kael;1085376Or, we should just grow a pair and play OD&D where everything is a d6 as the Lord intended. (I'm guilty of liking OD&D more than I actually play it, sadly.)

OD&D can be a hard(ish) sell, but SWORDS & WIZARDRY: WHITE BOX is an easy sell.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByYame2Z2IBCeXljc3gzalNoMUE/view

Here's a 10 year retrospective about it.
https://smolderingwizard.com/2019/01/25/ten-years-of-swords-wizardry-white-box/

BTW, S&W:WB was written by Finarvyn who is a member here.

Apparently, these dudes are currently waving the White Box banner.
https://whiteboxgame.blogspot.com/

It's on Amazon with a rocking cover for less than $5.00
https://www.amazon.com/White-Box-Fantastic-Medieval-Adventure/dp/1981331395/ref=tmm_pap_title_1?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1514477953&sr=8-1

Quote from: Beldar;1085545I just wanted to chime in because my experience with human injuries of various kinds allows me to just write off RPG damage as a game device, it's simply not possible to model reality at all here.

Agreed. That's exactly why I made peace with Hit Points a long time ago. They don't make sense under inspection, but they're terrific for gaming.

Humans are squishy, but the myriad variables involved with injury make "realism" a fools errand.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1086257What PC Hit Points are we talking about here? Do thieves get a d6 or a d4? Do fighters get a d10 or a d8? Do clerics get a d8 or a d6?

Give the PC Classes their Hit Dice from D&D 5E, and Pathfinder.