Replied to the wrong topic!

Quote from: Vic99;806911For those of you that have actually played 5e, is there a mechanic or a concept that does not work as well or as easily as it seemed?  I have a few ideas, but I don't want to start the thread by biasing it in one direction.  Thanks.

Hm, I guess for me it's the idea that player's can't buy magical items. I don't have the DMG yet and I hear there are some pricings in there for magical items but that sort of runs counter to the game.

I believe the intent is that you're supposed to be using your gold for things in-game like keeps and taxes and tithes and greasing politicians / local authority palms, and etc but to be perfectly honest, none of that really appeals to me. Coming from a predominantly 3E and 4E background you often spent your money on making your self better at your profession (ie. Murder Hobos) and that was fine with me. Now the idea is to buy a Keep and have a side game of  SIMs while we play D&D and I really don't like that approach. Especially if/when I want to run a 5E Eberron game where the setting is really build around magic and the economy is set up with it in mind.

Quote from: Batman;807087Hm, I guess for me it's the idea that player's can't buy magical items. I don't have the DMG yet and I hear there are some pricings in there for magical items but that sort of runs counter to the game.
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The question was if there was something that didn't work as you expected in actual game play.  And it sounds like your response is just guessing about something you hadn't actually experienced.

There are enough of those types of responses floating around.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;807091The question was if there was something that didn't work as you expected in actual game play.  And it sounds like your response is just guessing about something you hadn't actually experienced.

There are enough of those types of responses floating around.

My experience is that the design goal of D&D:Next is so that magical items aren't on display as things anyone can go into a shoppe and buy. Nothing up to this point has given me reason to think this has changed.

The question was: "is there a mechanic or a concept that does not work as well or as easily as it seemed?"

The concept of non-magical items not being on sale does not work for me.

That's a semantic dodge.

'This doesn't work' in the sense of how something functions or fails to function, vs:
'This doesn't work' in the sense of esthetically not liking it.

So, Batman is being silly.

Quote from: Batman;807101My experience is that the design goal of D&D:Next is so that magical items aren't on display as things anyone can go into a shoppe and buy. Nothing up to this point has given me reason to think this has changed.

The question was: "is there a mechanic or a concept that does not work as well or as easily as it seemed?"

The concept of non-magical items not being on sale does not work for me.

Yeah, and if you weren't speculating but going by actual experience with the rules like the OP asked, you'd see that magic items do have a gp value and the DMG explicitly tells you that if you want ye ol magic shop, here's how to do it.  So your guesswork is flat out incorrect.

So I go back to my original statement.  The OP was asking for actual in game experiences.  I'm about done with people like you who have this incessant need to bitch about the game without actually playing it.  You guys make just about every thread toxic because in  nearly every case, your problems aren't actual problems and it's needless arguing.

Quote from: Batman;807101My experience is that the design goal of D&D:Next is so that magical items aren't on display as things anyone can go into a shoppe and buy. Nothing up to this point has given me reason to think this has changed.

The question was: "is there a mechanic or a concept that does not work as well or as easily as it seemed?"

The concept of non-magical items not being on sale does not work for me.

So, to you it "seemed" like it would not work for you, and you may or may not have experienced that it is in practice not working for you?

You thought it would suck, you still think it sucks.  How does that in any way address the concept not working as well or easily as it seemed.  Spoiler: it doesn't.

I'm all for sharing opinions about what we like and what we don't like, but don't pretend like yours addresses the question when it obviously doesn't, especially when thats seems to be an armchair player opinion.

Quote from: FaerieGodfather;807066Well, I can't say for certain that it "hasn't worked" because I flat fucking refused to use it, but I'm still pretty disappointed in the 3e-style multiclassing rules.

Quote from: Omega;807069I am personally actually pretty happy that the 5e multiclassing rules make multiclassing "dipping" just about useless. No one in the group I am in or DM for has any interest in multiclassing.

The multi classing rules are OPTIONAL which is a good thing. In practice there are a few dips that are fairly useful. In my first campaign I wanted to test everything so I allowed freeform multi-classing. The cleric dipped into warlock and can thus regain healing spells on a short rest which is pretty powerful but not game breaking.

Since this campaign is largely about testing things out as they are I am ignoring the jarring WTF factor of just waking up one morning with the abilities of another class.

In the second campaign I started I am still allowing multiclass options but taking the first level in a new class requires 250 days and 250 gp to train just like learning a new proficiency. Thus mechanically it is still possible but the overnight gaining of new abilities has been curbed a bit.

Quote from: Batman;807087Hm, I guess for me it's the idea that player's can't buy magical items. I don't have the DMG yet and I hear there are some pricings in there for magical items but that sort of runs counter to the game.

I believe the intent is that you're supposed to be using your gold for things in-game like keeps and taxes and tithes and greasing politicians / local authority palms, and etc but to be perfectly honest, none of that really appeals to me. Coming from a predominantly 3E and 4E background you often spent your money on making your self better at your profession (ie. Murder Hobos) and that was fine with me. Now the idea is to buy a Keep and have a side game of  SIMs while we play D&D and I really don't like that approach. Especially if/when I want to run a 5E Eberron game where the setting is really build around magic and the economy is set up with it in mind.

There isn't any reason that you can't have magic items for sale in your campaign and even make it commonplace. The game simply makes it clear that it is YOUR decision to do so. No one who takes responsibility for the content of their own game should mind this at all.

If you are not the one running the game then such decisions aren't yours to make anyway. Magic item availability and the rarity of such things should be a decision left to the GM.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;807105Yeah, and if you weren't speculating but going by actual experience with the rules like the OP asked, you'd see that magic items do have a gp value and the DMG explicitly tells you that if you want ye ol magic shop, here's how to do it.  So your guesswork is flat out incorrect.

Considering that I don't have the DMG I can only go off what my experience with the system has given me thus far. My guesswork was that the DMG might have these options. Great. It was correct however I still don't have the book yet. Right now with the PHB and the Basic Rules PDF, magic item shoppes aren't assumed to be apart of the game.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;807105So I go back to my original statement.  The OP was asking for actual in game experiences.

To which I DO, unless you think I'm lying for some retarded reason?? My experiences with the system do not lend to one book. So I guess if I don't have every single piece of printed material with the entire system yet, my experience is now null and void? Guess what, I didn't play through Hoard of the Dragonqueen yet, does that mean my groups sessions with the system right now don't count?

Quote from: Sacrosanct;807105I'm about done with people like you who have this incessant need to bitch about the game without actually playing it.  You guys make just about every thread toxic because in  nearly every case, your problems aren't actual problems and it's needless arguing.

So in other words: Derp derp derp, blah blah, derp. Thanks for that insightful rant of insipid trash.

Quote from: Natty Bodak;807106So, to you it "seemed" like it would not work for you, and you may or may not have experienced that it is in practice not working for you?

With the PHB and the Basic rules PDF as our sources for playing the game, we haven't come across any reason to believe that magical marts/shoppes would be things we could spend our gold on. Magical items, with these two supplements, are specifically tied to monster hordes and found treasure. RIGHT NOW it seems as though buying and selling magical items isn't apart of the game.

Quote from: Natty Bodak;807106You thought it would suck, you still think it sucks.

Nope. Never said it sucks. I said that the idea of using gold for other things outside of upgrading characters isn't particularly my cup of tea. I'm not a fan of some of the suggestions like raising a keep or army or spending gold on things like taxes, tithes, and politicians. I NEVER said it sucked. So...try again.

Quote from: Natty Bodak;807106How does that in any way address the concept not working as well or easily as it seemed.  Spoiler: it doesn't.

I'm all for sharing opinions about what we like and what we don't like, but don't pretend like yours addresses the question when it obviously doesn't, especially when thats seems to be an armchair player opinion.

So, more Hur-durr dur. Thanks.

Circle of the Moon Druids seem to be really overpowered and broken to me. All druids get wild shape, but for this archetype, it's more than a little over the top.

I've been playing continuously through the whole playtest up until today, and I've GM'ed two groups that have advanced to 8th level. I'll tell you what I've noticed.

1. Don't worry about encumbrance. If your players are the type that end up as packrats, grab a blank silhouette form from the internet (like this https://bensmithsanimation.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/outline-body.png) and have them draw their gear on. There's a cat on youtube who is an archaeologist and European martial artist who does a great bit on what people historically walked around with.
 Schola Gladiatora

2. Magic is powerful at higher levels, but not as much as you think. There are certain situations where a spellcaster will just outclass anyone else, and other situations where the other characters will outclass the caster. Once a caster gets Fireball, throwing piles of low-HP creatures at them will just be feeding meat to the tiger. On the other hand, they're still far weaker than other classes, with poorer HP and AC, so big critters (like giants and the like) can one-shot even middling level wizards.

3. Ignore the internet. Or, well, ignore the belly aching on the internet. People love to hypothesize about what 'might' appear. Distinguish between 'personal taste' and 'broken'.  Personal taste is when a player wants a system to do something different, such as making magic weaker or stronger. Broken is when the game doesn't actually do what it says on the tin. You won't find too many genuinely broken things in games. If it's not a problem at your table, it's not a problem.

Quote from: Batman;807109Nope. Never said it sucks. I said that the idea of using gold for other things outside of upgrading characters isn't particularly my cup of tea. I'm not a fan of some of the suggestions like raising a keep or army or spending gold on things like taxes, tithes, and politicians. I NEVER said it sucked. So...try again.


So, more Hur-durr dur. Thanks.

Ooookay.  Was "sucks" a naughty curse word to you?

Quote from: Batman;807101My experience is that the design goal of D&D:Next is so that magical items aren't on display as things anyone can go into a shoppe and buy. Nothing up to this point has given me reason to think this has changed.

The question was: "is there a mechanic or a concept that does not work as well or as easily as it seemed?"

The concept of non-magical items not being on sale does not work for me.

You thought it wouldn't work for you, and you still think it doesn't work for you. That does not indicate any change of opinion or expectation. If you can't punch your way out of that paper bag, you are sad, sad little munchkin.

Quote from: Batman;807087Hm, I guess for me it's the idea that player's can't buy magical items. I don't have the DMG yet and I hear there are some pricings in there for magical items but that sort of runs counter to the game.

Counter to what game, and in what way?

Quote from: Batman;807087I believe the intent is that you're supposed to be using your gold for things in-game like keeps and taxes and tithes and greasing politicians / local authority palms, and etc but to be perfectly honest, none of that really appeals to me. Coming from a predominantly 3E and 4E background you often spent your money on making your self better at your profession (ie. Murder Hobos) and that was fine with me. Now the idea is to buy a Keep and have a side game of  SIMs while we play D&D and I really don't like that approach. Especially if/when I want to run a 5E Eberron game where the setting is really build around magic and the economy is set up with it in mind.

If/when you want to run an Eberron game where the setting is really built around magic, then unless you're a feeblminded goat you'll do what you want as the GM.

Just to draw your attention back to the OP:

Quote from: Vic99;806911For those of you that have actually played 5e, is there a mechanic or a concept that does not work as well or as easily as it seemed?  I have a few ideas, but I don't want to start the thread by biasing it in one direction.  Thanks.

You continue to fail to demonstrate some mechanic or concept that does not work as well or as easily as it seemed.  You never thought not selling magic items to PCs (whether that is actually true in the game or not doesn't seem to influence you) would work out well or easily, so all you're doing is griping about an element of the game you don't like, not that its effects were unexpected. Again, gripe away, but pretending that it's relevant to the OP is sad.  

Quote from: Batman;807109With the PHB and the Basic rules PDF as our sources for playing the game, we haven't come across any reason to believe that magical marts/shoppes would be things we could spend our gold on. Magical items, with these two supplements, are specifically tied to monster hordes and found treasure. RIGHT NOW it seems as though buying and selling magical items isn't apart of the game.

You need the game rules to tell you what you can spend your money on and whether or not there are magic shoppes in that setting? Does the GM of your setting not determine those things? Projecting your weird inferences from the PHB and basic PDFs about the economy of magic items is just shitty icing on a shitty cake.

Oh, I almost forgot. Here's the translation into rhetoric you seem to understand.

Hurr-durr-derp!

Everything works pretty much as they said it would, based on playtest and playing basic packet here. I can see doing a BASIC game, though I'd want a few more backgrounds to choose from. There's really just things I don't care for. Still think DEX is an uber stat, and think the whole game would work fine with 3 stats (STR, DEX, MIND), but I can't find much fault, save to chime in with CR not truly representing threat. Even the BASIC PC's carved up most things I tossed at them, including a pair of supposed very tough encounters.

Batman, the point I'm trying to make is if you aren't playing with all the rules, don't bitch about the rules not having what you want.  It's like ordering a barebones car and bitching that it doesn't have power windows or A/C.  If that's what you want, then go get it.

That's hardly the game's fault for failing to meet your expectations because you choose not to play with the rules that you want to have.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;807120Batman, the point I'm trying to make is if you aren't playing with all the rules, don't bitch about the rules not having what you want.  It's like ordering a barebones car and bitching that it doesn't have power windows or A/C.  If that's what you want, then go get it.

You and I have a very different definition of bitching. I'd say I'm pleased with about 95% of D&D:Next. It does MANY MANY things right. It cuts down on a lot of the chaff I've encountered with other editions, doesn't fuel numbers porn, maintains interesting role-playing, introduces really fun backgrounds that have great build-in ideas, and all around is fun and easy to get into.

I have one minor quibble in the form of magical items. This minor quibble is directly related to my experiences with the amount of the game we've encountered so far. And yes, apparently this has been addressed in the DMG. I didn't know that. I'm glad that it has and gives me a definite reason to go out and get it within fairly short order.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;807120That's hardly the game's fault for failing to meet your expectations because you choose not to play with the rules that you want to have.

Which doesn't mean that I don't have any experiences what so ever with the system, an accusation that was just leveled against me. And it also doesn't mean that I hate the system or think it sucks either.