Most tabletop games greatly undervalue shields. Fighting with a shield is a real game changer on the battlefield. They are far more than the small AC bonus classic games provide. What games out there do interesting thinga with shields in combat other than just a tiny AC boost? I'm not talking only about D&D types, but any traditional tabletop RPG.
Dragon Warriors.
It does nothing but if you get hit you roll a 1d6 and if you get a 1, it hits the shield.
Simple, but works so well in play.
YOu can specialise later to make a 1 in 4/
AD&D, although most people don't know about this. Large shields can block 2 opponents, but only on the shield arm side. Small shields can only block one, same location. So, effectively, you do not get an AC bonus for being attacked on your weapon-hand.
Palladium Books treats a shield as a weapon with mediocre damage, but a great parry bonus (defenses are checks in Palladium for those unaware). That meant you could use maneuvers like power attack or knockdown with the shield. Way more interesting than shield as a passive barrier against attacks.
Runequest/Mythras has the best shield rules I've seen. Shields are weapons that are much better than other weapons at parrying. If your opponent is inside the ideal range for your primary weapon, they will potentially be a better option to attack with than said weapon, and can potentially force your opponent back. Used passively, they protect more of your body than other weapons; used actively to parry they are typically more effective than other weapons.
Conan - Adventures in an Age Undreamed Of allows a PC to use a shield for cover, which gives bonus soak dice. It also gives the PC the parry quality, so defending multiple times adds less to the GMs Doom Pool.
PCs can use a shield as a weapon and with enough successes knock down an opponent.
Finally, if the PC does fail a defense roll, their shield can be sacrificed (aka: destroyed) to prevent the damage they would have taken.
In Hackmaster (5E) shields increase your chance of being hit but, if you are hit, there is an excellent chance the hit will be to your shield, which means your enemy does less damage, and more of said damage is soaked. A particularly heavy hit to a shield may break it, however.
In GURPS shields give a passive bonus to all defense rolls from the front and can be used to actively block attacks. Shield is an easy skill and thus even better than parrying with a weapon.
GURPS in addition to what Dave mentioned techniques can be learned (and improved) one can learn
Shield Wall Training
Shield Rush a form of Slam Attack
Attack with the Shield (most maneuvers apply)
Perform a Beat to reduce a target's defense via the Fighter's Strength and skill.
Shove an opponent
Add a spike to the shield
Sharpen the Edges of a Shield
GURPS has the most complete treatment of shield I seen for any RPG.
Quote from: estar;1055978GURPS in addition to what Dave mentioned techniques can be learned (and improved) one can learn
Shield Wall Training
Shield Rush a form of Slam Attack
Attack with the Shield (most maneuvers apply)
Perform a Beat to reduce a target's defense via the Fighter's Strength and skill.
Shove an opponent
Add a spike to the shield
Sharpen the Edges of a Shield
GURPS has the most complete treatment of shield I seen for any RPG.
GURPS is the most remarkable game that I can never get anyone to play. It's writing is excellent and often researched. I like GURPS combat in general but it's always been too hard of a sell to my gaming groups. Honestly, the only book that deserves the GURPS reputation is the 3rd Edition Vehicles, but that's an irrelevant book now.
I will add Adventurers! from Gramel to the interesting shield rules list. It's a 2d6 plus stats game, but if you carry a shield and roll doubles on defense it soaks additional damage.
Mazes & Minotaurs (http://mazesandminotaurs.free.fr/) has the SHIELD WALL! maneuver which allow 2+ Spearmen side by side to gain +2 AC and can do so while charging.
Quote from: thedungeondelver;1055955AD&D, although most people don't know about this. Large shields can block 2 opponents, but only on the shield arm side. Small shields can only block one, same location. So, effectively, you do not get an AC bonus for being attacked on your weapon-hand.
I think large shields can be used by up to 3 opponents, medium shields are two, and small shields one.
Quote from: Exploderwizard;1056009I think large shields can be used by up to 3 opponents, medium shields are two, and small shields one.
Ah, that's it. Thanks; I was going off the top of my head, didn't have any books handy.
5e D&D has the shield mastery perk which allows shoving, as well as a bonus to DEX saves. And the ability to nullify damage from spells that do half if saved as long as you make the save. The playtest also allowed for attacking with the shield. You can still do that as an improvised weapon at least.
GURPS; no contest. If you refuse to play GURPS, then Runequest.
In my own book some of the things you could do with a shield were...
Throw it.
Bash with it.
Stab with it if it had a point or blade on it.
Push with it.
Depending on the size and type of shield, form a barrier with it.
Shield others if was big enough.
Makes a nifty birdbath +1 when you retire.
Quote from: Beldar;1055996GURPS is the most remarkable game that I can never get anyone to play. It's writing is excellent and often researched. I like GURPS combat in general but it's always been too hard of a sell to my gaming groups...
A 32 year old game on a 14 year old edition.
Best way I get people into new games is to run one-shots, which our groups rules that anyone who runs a one shot has to make characters for everyone (or provide them).
Post character creation GURPS is way easier to do. But it's also the only game I know that I think requires a session 0 of character creation.
Quote from: Beldar;1055952Most tabletop games greatly undervalue shields. Fighting with a shield is a real game changer on the battlefield. They are far more than the small AC bonus classic games provide. What games out there do interesting thinga with shields in combat other than just a tiny AC boost? I'm not talking only about D&D types, but any traditional tabletop RPG.
In Glory Road Roleplay,
A large shield covers the front and left (right if using the other weapon in the left hand) and reduces ones Target Number (T#) versus missiles by 2/3 or -6, whichever is better. It reduces ones T# in melee by 1/3 or -3, whichever is better. It parries better than other weapons and can be used in a "punch" attack or in an attempt to overrun. On the other hand, it has to be carried, cannot be worn, so one hand and arm are not free for other tasks. Also, a shield rarely survives one hard battle.
A Medium shield covers the front and left side and reduces the T# versus missiles by 1/2 or -4, 1/4 or -2 in melee. Otherwise much the same as a large shield and it is not much handier to carry around.
A small shield covers the front
or left side and reduces the T# by 1/3 or -3 versus missiles, 1/5 or -1 in melee.
A buckler has no passive defense but is very good for parrying and is very handy. It can be worn on one's belt.
Quote from: Mike the Mage;1055954Dragon Warriors.
It does nothing but if you get hit you roll a 1d6 and if you get a 1, it hits the shield.
Simple, but works so well in play.
YOu can specialise later to make a 1 in 4/
That sounds fine mechanically - but it'd substantially slow down play.
In Low Fantasy Gaming you can use your shield to negate one directional hit/damage by declaring such after the fact. You can't do it again until the shield is repaired at village or whatever. At the GM's option, depending on the attack negated, the shield may no longer provide +1 AC either until repaired, or be destroyed entirely. You can also shield punch as an attack, d3 + Str mod, but lose shield benefits until the start of your next turn.
Additionally, in combination with a Rescue exploit, you might be able to use a shield to protect someone else from an attack.
In RuneQuest you can use shields as follows:
- Parrying an attack (Different sized shields absorb different amounts of damage)
- Attacking an opponent
- Covering locations so that missiles can't hit them
- In a shield wall, covering locations so opponents can't hit them
- Disarm an opponent, with a swordbreaker fitting
Things I have seen Shields used for in RuneQuest:
- As a sledge, to quickly escape an enemy
- As a makeshift discus to hit an enemy at a distance
- Cast sunbright on a golden shield, to dazzle an enemy
- As a mirror to see opponents while not looking at you (Medusa, you know who we are talking about)
- As a stretcher to bring a fallen comrade out of battle
- A barrier to stop dragon's fire or chaotic acid from hitting you
Quote from: Mike the Mage;1055954Dragon Warriors.
It does nothing but if you get hit you roll a 1d6 and if you get a 1, it hits the shield.
Simple, but works so well in play.
YOu can specialise later to make a 1 in 4/
I really like this one
For AD&D1e, I made a house rule: a shield wall may be formed with at least 3 people, giving a +1 to AC for each person beside you. <1HD creatures cannot form shield walls on their own, but need training and a 1+HD leader. Nohumans do not use shield walls as a matter of course, particularly the chaotic ones.
This has made 0-level men-at-arms considerably more valuable, and makes a big difference when fighting goblins and such. It also explains why even villages can often stand up to goblins etc on their own.
It's also made a difference in how players do things. As well as making them more inclined to have hirelings (the men-at-arms will also need a cook, all their supplies carried will need a teamster, and so on) and thus making it all look more like a small military band, the players themselves will have their fighters and clerics go in the shield wall, their magic-users behind it, and thieves are more likely to actually do their job of scouting ahead, or hiding somewhere and ambushing or sniping. It's a profound change from every idiot running off by themselves and getting killed.
Having shield walls encourages players to organise themselves.
I can't seem to find it now, but Kyle Aaron had a nifty little house rule called "Shields Will Be Splintered" where if an attack got through the armor on a to hit roll and the player was using a shield - they could sacrifice the shield and reduce the damage of the attack by 1d6. Added some fun to combats in my games.
Quote from: jeff37923;1056190I can't seem to find it now, but Kyle Aaron had a nifty little house rule called "Shields Will Be Splintered" where if an attack got through the armor on a to hit roll and the player was using a shield - they could sacrifice the shield and reduce the damage of the attack by 1d6. Added some fun to combats in my games.
I've seen that done with B/X D&D. I think at low levels it was a neat option to have as starting characters in Basic are about as durable as an off-brand tissue trying to withstand one of my legendary nostrile blasts. The issue I had was that magic shields come before too long, and who is going to sacrifice a +2 shield unless they know it is their only chance?
I've used that but didn't come up with it. I think it might have been an Alexandrian thing.
By the time they're high enough level to have found a magic shield (given no better than normal luck with random treasures), they'll be high enough level to make it unlikely they have to do things like sacrifice magic shields. That's basically a 1st-2nd level thing.
I came up with my own house rules for shields (https://wiki.rpg.net/index.php/Tyche's_Favourites/Chargen#Shields) in B/X-derived ACKS. Basically the size of shield has differing impacts on AC, and those impacts are separated into melee/thrown vs missile. There are also variant impacts in mass combat.
The critical thing is, in the milieu my hack deals with (antiquity, not the default medieval assumption of the system), the shield is the most important defensive accoutrement, not armour. Lots of warriors will go into battle with a helmet and shield, and be properly outfitted. I also wanted the PCs to have the option, in a pinch, of grabbing up their shield and weapons and not spending time getting armoured.
Good thread. These rules that allow a shield to be sacrificed in order to negate or minimize the effects of an attack are awesome -- not only do they boost the survivability of low level characters, as mentioned, but also encourage a thrilling trope of fantasy melee, where the warrior's shield is destroyed, tossed away, and their vitals yet more exposed, but they keep fighting on!
Found another: Barebones Fantasy from DWD Studios has shields give a very large bonus to what are basically its version of physical saving throws. So, they apply their bonus against dragon breath and even some magic attacks and traps. It makes shields super useful.
The Genesys system (which is derived from FFG Star Wars) has shields provide passive defense, be used to attack and knock down opponents. With talents you can get a shield charge and block arrows for yourself and close by allies.
And upgrade them with spikes or to add magical effects.
So The Hero's Journey: Fantasy Roleplaying gives shields their due in my opinion. This Swords & Wizardry Whitebox derivative has armor act as a damage reducer and only shields and dexterity adjustments affect armor class. And instead of a measly +1 to AC, shields give a significant boost. Large shields give a +8 to ascending AC for example.
Quote from: Beldar;1055952Most tabletop games greatly undervalue shields. Fighting with a shield is a real game changer on the battlefield. They are far more than the small AC bonus classic games provide. What games out there do interesting thinga with shields in combat other than just a tiny AC boost? I'm not talking only about D&D types, but any traditional tabletop RPG.
In Lion & Dragon there are parrying/blocking rules that make use of shields. You can parry with a weapon, but it's more effective to block with a shield.
Quote from: RPGPundit;1056810In Lion & Dragon there are parrying/blocking rules that make use of shields. You can parry with a weapon, but it's more effective to block with a shield.
What are the pros/cons of either?
Quote from: Warboss Squee;1056823What are the pros/cons of either?
Some classes have bonuses with using specific weapons (that they get as they level up), so in some cases the chance to block will be higher with the weapon than with the shield (though the shield has a base +2 to blocking, in addition to the base attack, so you'd need to have +3 or higher with the specific weapon for it to be more worthwhile), but then after you block, you roll against the damage dealt to see if you succeed in the parry, and in those cases weapons roll a base D4 while shields roll a base d8.
So in most cases, it's better to block with a shield than a weapon, but if you're true master of a weapon it might be better to block with the weapon.
Quote from: Sable Wyvern;1055964In Hackmaster (4E) shields increase your chance of being hit but, if you are hit, there is an excellent chance the hit will be to your shield, which means your enemy does less damage, and more of said damage is soaked. A particularly heavy hit to a shield may break it, however.
Minor correction: that should be Hackmaster 5E.
Quote from: TheHistorian;1057448Minor correction: that should be Hackmaster 5E.
Right you are.