There are a few games I have no interest in playing or GMing ever again

1. Modiphius 2d20 system, and any of their games. I think the system is a complicated mess, and the company is woke and silly.
2. D&D 5e: Zero interest in this game or WOTC. Another complicated mess that isn't fun to play.
3. GURPs: never got into this game, as there are much better generic RPG systems out there, such as Masterbook, Open D6, or the GenreDiversion system.

Playing? 5e. I did not like it from the first month it hit the store shelves. It is the most over-rated system one could imagine: Alignment, Spells and Spell Slots, Level Scaling, it just flat doesn't work for me.

GMing? Genesys, and this is unfortunate, because Genesys is the system I first began GMing with (notwithstanding some childhood ventures into the 3.5e beginner box). Genesys is a great system for a really inexperienced GM, but unbearably limiting for anyone else what with its double-layered dice results and required outcomes.

Quote from: Brand55 on January 03, 2025, 11:29:17 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on January 03, 2025, 11:03:38 PMShadowrun is the big one for me. I played from 1e-5e (although mostly 2e and 4e) and even bought the core rules pdf of 6e, but I just got tired of the edition treadmill (especially when 6e was total shit), the cumbersome mechanics, and the game always seemed to attract crap players (worse than 5e D&D for weird shit turned up to 11 all the fucking time).

Not looking to derail the thread, but as a quick aside did you ever find a good alternative for cyberpunk games? My group was never able to get into the newer Shadowrun editions, and while I have Cities Without Number it still isn't perfect.

To answer the original question, there are a number of games I'd never want to run or play again. Some of them have already been mentioned, but I'll go with one that I haven't seen listed: Exalted (any edition, but especially 2nd). I don't think I've ever seen a game that actively hates the GM as much as Exalted. The amount of paperwork and memorization required to handle even one moderately powerful NPC is staggering, and it only gets more complicated as fights get more involved. Other games can handle Exalted's power level in much simpler fashion, so for me I never see myself opening those books again.

I never really looked for a cyberpunk alternative to replace Shadowrun. I have several I can go to for non-magical-hybrid cyberpunk, but Shadowrun killed my interest in they magical-hybrid version.

I too have walked from Exalted. I own everything from 1e and stopped after the core rules to 2e. I did pick up Exalted Essence, and while it's "condensed down" from 3e, it's hardly rules light like I was hoping for. I agree with you in all regards that it is a nightmare to GM and even hard for any but a driven system master of a player to get into.

Quote from: MerrillWeathermay on January 04, 2025, 09:57:41 AMGURPs: never got into this game

I was limiting myself to mentioning only games I'd actively run & played extensively then walked away from. If I mentioned all the games I just said no to after first contact, then I'd have quite a few more entries on my list. And yes, GURPS is certainly one of them.

Quote from: Brand55 on January 03, 2025, 11:29:17 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on January 03, 2025, 11:03:38 PMShadowrun is the big one for me. I played from 1e-5e (although mostly 2e and 4e) and even bought the core rules pdf of 6e, but I just got tired of the edition treadmill (especially when 6e was total shit), the cumbersome mechanics, and the game always seemed to attract crap players (worse than 5e D&D for weird shit turned up to 11 all the fucking time).

Not looking to derail the thread, but as a quick aside did you ever find a good alternative for cyberpunk games? My group was never able to get into the newer Shadowrun editions, and while I have Cities Without Number it still isn't perfect.

To answer the original question, there are a number of games I'd never want to run or play again. Some of them have already been mentioned, but I'll go with one that I haven't seen listed: Exalted (any edition, but especially 2nd). I don't think I've ever seen a game that actively hates the GM as much as Exalted. The amount of paperwork and memorization required to handle even one moderately powerful NPC is staggering, and it only gets more complicated as fights get more involved. Other games can handle Exalted's power level in much simpler fashion, so for me I never see myself opening those books again.

You could check out this thread: https://www.therpgsite.com/reviews/badapple-reviews-cyberpunk-games/ I've reviewed several games and I think all the popular cyberpunk options currently on the market.

The three that stand out to me the most are Neon Blood, Zaibatsu, and Carbon 2185.  Each has their strengths and I would be happy to play or run any of them.

Quote from: Omega on January 03, 2025, 08:09:41 PMPalladium games is a 50/50 due to the mistreatment of some of its writers. Kevin is a nice guy... till he isnt. I used to know two of the writers for Palladium and still have a huge manuscript that one of them just handed off to me and totally quit RPGs from the bad experience.

At least he's consistent with screwing over the fans as around 5,000 Robotech RPG Tactics backers who didn't get anything beyond the initial wave 1 release because he gambled the remaining KS money on additional stock for retail instead of spending his own can attest to.

There are a lot that I've run or played and have no desire to revisit. Off the top of my head:

• Any WotC D&D edition.
• 2e AD&D
• BECMI D&D
• Castles & Crusades
• True 20
• Savage Worlds
• Mutants & Masterminds
• Champions
• GURPS
• Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles
• Chivalry & Sorcery
• Trail of Cthulhu
• Top Secret
• James Bond 007
• Star Frontiers
• Chill
• Vampire/Werewolf/Mage/etc
• Paranoia
• Toon

Definitely others that didn't immediately come to mind. With that list it's not that I think those games are necessarily bad, but for many of them I prefer alternatives or I just don't have any interest.

Pathfinder 1e
I ran Pathfinder 1e for years but the thought of going back and doing that again just gives me a headache.

Anything with the Palladium megaverse system
Same thing.  Just think about dealing with this janky mess of a system makes my head hurt.

oWoD especially cross-over play
Same thing.  I might consider Orpheus since it's self-contained.

Any Shadowrun
I have been hoping for Shadowrun to be good for ages.  I got four editions before giving up.  They manage to make it suck in a different way every time.

Exalted
What a tiresome mess this one was to run.  It's a pity because I like the idea and setting.  I spent way too much money on Exalted books trying to like it.  The more they expanded the system, the worse it got.

I will probably never play GURPS or Hero system again because it's damn near impossible to find players and just thinking of running them on a VTT makes my head hurt.   

D&D 3, 3.5 and 4th, rolemaster and a whole host of other games, given what's out there! It's just impossible to try them all.

Quote from: ElifeLau on January 05, 2025, 04:49:46 PMD&D 3, 3.5 and 4th

Same, 3 and up just never appealed to me. 5e I did try out in a local game, and its ok, but it just didn't have anything special about it. Just felt so lifeless. All of that was expected from a game that is supposed to have broad appeal.

Quote from: Koltar on January 03, 2025, 11:33:20 PMDungeons & Dragons - ANY version.

 The store once drafted me to run a session of it with intoductory materials WOTC sent out.
I read the stuff over night and faked my way through it based on GM-ing other role playing games over the years.

 I did keep it moving and the players had a good time.

Its just NOT 'my bag' or style.

 Last time I did any Fantasy or 'Sword & Sorcery' setting it was with the DUNGEON FANTASY rules thats a GURPS variant.

- Ed C.

Even B/X or AD&D 1st ed?

Quote from: yosemitemike on January 05, 2025, 06:02:31 AMPathfinder 1e
I ran Pathfinder 1e for years but the thought of going back and doing that again just gives me a headache.

Anything with the Palladium megaverse system
Same thing.  Just think about dealing with this janky mess of a system makes my head hurt.

oWoD especially cross-over play
Same thing.  I might consider Orpheus since it's self-contained.

Any Shadowrun
I have been hoping for Shadowrun to be good for ages.  I got four editions before giving up.  They manage to make it suck in a different way every time.

Exalted
What a tiresome mess this one was to run.  It's a pity because I like the idea and setting.  I spent way too much money on Exalted books trying to like it.  The more they expanded the system, the worse it got.

I will probably never play GURPS or Hero system again because it's damn near impossible to find players and just thinking of running them on a VTT makes my head hurt. 

Amusingly, your list is very similar to mine.  Pathfinder/3.5 is a mess, with the math getting out of hand quickly, the idea that a DM has to use the same rules as players when making monsters being anathema to me, and the purposely designed trap feats as a barrier to novice players.  I'm glad it's dead/dying.

Palladium is such a trash system.  I recently (for nostalgia's sake) tried to run a Beyond the Supernatural campaign for the same group that had so much fun with it when we were teenagers.  I tried both my original version and the newer version, and much misery was had at the table.  Several PCs were basically useless, and the mage was better at everything that everyone else was supposed to do.  Never again.

Ditto oWoD and Shadowrun.  With Shadowrun, talk about taking a cool concept, slowly destroying that concept edition after edition, and making a shaky system worse over time.  Bleh.

Never played Exalted.  Took one look at the rules and noped out instantly.

Used to play HERO system (Champions, et al.).  I've just grown beyond any system that I need a piece of software to make a character efficiently (looking at 4e D&D as well).  It's dead to me.

I'm usually a never-say-never guy. But MOST of the time I'm looking for either new-systems that do something specific well, or where a system or setting might have material I would happily port over to my go-to systems.

Some systems I'd never run simply because their design philosophy is 1) not necessary due to me having something that can do it with better fidelity. 2) I the design is just shit.

Such systems are: FATE, 4e D&D, PbtA-based games come to mind.

But there are systems I'd *generally* never run unless my players *really* wanted me to run them. GURPS, Hero System, BRP/CoC.

Quote from: Brad on January 04, 2025, 09:38:14 AMPalladium dies whenever Kevin dies. He will never retire, and certainly never give anyone control over his company in any capacity. I could be wrong, but I doubt it.

Nah. Sean Roberson is his partner now, he's young, and breathing new life into Palladium on several fronts. He's cleaning up Kevin's massive backlog and starting to get new Palladium material out the door again!!! And he's also continuing publishing Palladium Rifts content for Savage Worlds too. (I'm hoping they do Palladium Fantasy for SW).

Kevin has already stated he wants to take a step back and loosen the reins on things.

Quote from: tenbones on January 06, 2025, 12:29:02 PMKevin has already stated he wants to take a step back and loosen the reins on things.

I am in absolute shock...no, really.

Quote from: blackstone on January 06, 2025, 09:26:31 AM

Quote from: Koltar on January 03, 2025, 11:33:20 PMDungeons & Dragons - ANY version.

Its just NOT 'my bag' or style

- Ed C.

Even B/X or AD&D 1st ed?

NOPE.

 I am 'odd' or unusual compared to other gamers. The first RPG 'campaign' I ever played in for more than one session was not "Dungeons & Dragons" but classic little book TRAVELLER back around 1981.

 TRAVELLER was the role playing game that 'took' with me and fired up my imagination.
Think I had played once in a D&D session the year before - but it didn't work out. Also there were a group of guys that invited me to their group of D&D ..but that didn't work out.

- Ed C.