For me I would never play 4th edition D&D ever again. Played 10th level game and my wizard just felt weak and unfun. All the martials were having the time of their life. I didn't like much of the mechanics. I'm not a fan of 5e, but it's a big improvement in comparison.
As for running, I don't think I'll ever run Pathfinder 1e again. As a player, it's a great game. It improved on every aspect of 3e. As a GM, it's such a burden to run, especially once players get to higher levels. Simple stuff like keeping track of monster feats (which often have no description, so you need to look them up) would turn combats into just basic attacks or whatever is a power with a description. Players would get choice paralysis as well at higher levels. So bad to the point I'd just be like "just attack" because I knew that was their best option than to do some combat maneuver.
I ran a game using Fate once. I'll never touch products made by Evil Hat again after they decided to lecture about morality.
I probably also won't run 3.5 or pathfinder with the rules as written. Too many modifiers when it's really not necessary. With a group of casual players, this is a pain in the ass because I will have to end up being the one keeping track of and updating character sheets
Ironclaw due to severe problems with Sanguine way back.
Everytime SJG pulls some new wretched stunt my interest in gurps drops just one more notch. Everytime some gurps fanatic badmouths classes my opinion of gurps drops one more notch.
White Wolf for just being creeps left and right when they think no one is looking.
Palladium games is a 50/50 due to the mistreatment of some of its writers. Kevin is a nice guy... till he isnt. I used to know two of the writers for Palladium and still have a huge manuscript that one of them just handed off to me and totally quit RPGs from the bad experience.
On the PC side. Bethsada for lying through their teeth to me about their intentions so they could steal my old company name to slap on Starfield. I would totally not have cared if they had just been fucking honest instead of approaching under false pretext. Then they did it again with a character name.
Theres more but those stand out at the moment.
There's a lot of systems that I don't like, but with the right GM and/or group of players, I'd probably be willing to give any system a try.
The rules is only one piece of a given RPG session. It's important, but it's not everything.
There's a ton of games I'll never run (or run again), and almost that many that I wouldn't play. However, it's mostly about prioritizing. For instance, I don't have anything against Reign, and it looks like it would be interesting to try, but it will likely not bubble up high enough on the list to get session time.
I don't run anything from the woke companies, even when I own the game, because I don't want to encourage other people to buy from them.
Shadowrun is the big one for me. I played from 1e-5e (although mostly 2e and 4e) and even bought the core rules pdf of 6e, but I just got tired of the edition treadmill (especially when 6e was total shit), the cumbersome mechanics, and the game always seemed to attract crap players (worse than 5e D&D for weird shit turned up to 11 all the fucking time).
Quote from: HappyDaze on January 03, 2025, 11:03:38 PMShadowrun is the big one for me. I played from 1e-5e (although mostly 2e and 4e) and even bought the core rules pdf of 6e, but I just got tired of the edition treadmill (especially when 6e was total shit), the cumbersome mechanics, and the game always seemed to attract crap players (worse than 5e D&D for weird shit turned up to 11 all the fucking time).
Not looking to derail the thread, but as a quick aside did you ever find a good alternative for cyberpunk games? My group was never able to get into the newer Shadowrun editions, and while I have Cities Without Number it still isn't perfect.
To answer the original question, there are a number of games I'd never want to run or play again. Some of them have already been mentioned, but I'll go with one that I haven't seen listed: Exalted (any edition, but especially 2nd). I don't think I've ever seen a game that actively hates the GM as much as Exalted. The amount of paperwork and memorization required to handle even one moderately powerful NPC is staggering, and it only gets more complicated as fights get more involved. Other games can handle Exalted's power level in much simpler fashion, so for me I never see myself opening those books again.
Dungeons & Dragons - ANY version.
The store once drafted me to run a session of it with intoductory materials WOTC sent out.
I read the stuff over night and faked my way through it based on GM-ing other role playing games over the years.
I did keep it moving and the players had a good time.
Its just NOT 'my bag' or style.
Last time I did any Fantasy or 'Sword & Sorcery' setting it was with the DUNGEON FANTASY rules thats a GURPS variant.
- Ed C.
:o Oof, I gotta tag what I would call that entire class of RPGs: The Ultra Bargain Cause Célèb Charity Bundle (typically over hundreds, sometimes even thousands, of "games" for only $5 or $10).
So many are un-play-tested, single page, hackneyed, wanna-be, quasi-activist premise "RPGs" that. just. don't. work. in. actual. play.
I got wrangled to play(test) well over a handful of these around some latest cause célèb (the $5 gets you 5000 games to help victims of -isms!) that after the 3rd one I was through. I think I couldn't help myself but I blurted at my breaking point, "Who the fuck are these fools grifting their grievance for pesos on the dollar? Have they no self respect for themselves and their own craft, if not for my time? Game charity is not half-assed art therapy! >:("
When offered to donate like my other friends I thought it better to offer that $5 to a local homeless crackhead direct. More honorable, less bureaucratic overhead, a happier time had by all. I'm not wasting my time on playing, let alone running or buying, those performative debacles again. :)
40k Wrath and Glory, I hear they did fix it, but it was awful at launch. I would say id never run 5e again since I had a "final campaign" but I played in a friends core book only 5e game cause it was her first time GMing and I did it to be supportive.
Quote from: Brand55 on January 03, 2025, 11:29:17 PMQuote from: HappyDaze on January 03, 2025, 11:03:38 PMShadowrun is the big one for me. I played from 1e-5e (although mostly 2e and 4e) and even bought the core rules pdf of 6e, but I just got tired of the edition treadmill (especially when 6e was total shit), the cumbersome mechanics, and the game always seemed to attract crap players (worse than 5e D&D for weird shit turned up to 11 all the fucking time).
Not looking to derail the thread, but as a quick aside did you ever find a good alternative for cyberpunk games? My group was never able to get into the newer Shadowrun editions, and while I have Cities Without Number it still isn't perfect.
I recently got to play Cyberpunk Red. It was fun and the mechanics pretty straight-forward. However, nobody in our party was a netrunner and I don't know how good the game's netrunning rules are in comparison to other systems.
I used the Interface Zero (current version is 3.0) setting book for Savage Worlds to run cyberpunk and sci-fi games.
Palladium Books.
I'll be honest and admit that the unclear way you tally up bonuses got to me in the end.
I have plenty of alternatives now. Tiny-D6 is a new favorite. This is mostly due to only having time to play impromptu one-shots with my grade school aged son. I need quick and easy, as well as a range of genres. Tiny-D6 has that covered.
But, back to Palladium. When Kevin retires and Sean Robertson writes a 3rd edition I hope he can clarify and simplify the rules. Then I might go back.
Quote from: weirdguy564 on January 04, 2025, 06:49:08 AMBut, back to Palladium. When Kevin retires and Sean Robertson writes a 3rd edition I hope he can clarify and simplify the rules. Then I might go back.
It is my sincere and earnest hope we see this with TMNT. It's the perfect place to do it because it doesn't affect the Rifts line. A revision of the core system for a limited release of a retired property would be the perfect soft launch.
Palladium dies whenever Kevin dies. He will never retire, and certainly never give anyone control over his company in any capacity. I could be wrong, but I doubt it.
Also, I gave away a complete set of 3.X D&D except for the main three books, 3.0 edition. I had a lot of fun for several years playing it, but I certainly never see myself running another campaign (which I only did once or twice) and playing it is probably off the table since my group pretty much agreed it's much closer to a boardgame than RPG after we migrated to Castles & Crusades. There are a lot of other games I'll never play again, like HERO 5/6th or GURPS 4th, and I got rid of everything for those systems and kept the older stuff because I think it's better, honestly. As much as I like Swords & Wizardry (and backed the recent KS), every time I think I want to run it I end up just using AD&D and ignore weapon speed and weapon-vs-armor.
I think over the course of about three years I have sold or given away ~1000 books, and it was hard at first, but now I rarely ever think about them EXCEPT for the Everquest RPG for some odd reason, then I look at a bootleg PDF I have and remember why it ended up in the giveaway box.
There are a few games I have no interest in playing or GMing ever again
1. Modiphius 2d20 system, and any of their games. I think the system is a complicated mess, and the company is woke and silly.
2. D&D 5e: Zero interest in this game or WOTC. Another complicated mess that isn't fun to play.
3. GURPs: never got into this game, as there are much better generic RPG systems out there, such as Masterbook, Open D6, or the GenreDiversion system.
Playing? 5e. I did not like it from the first month it hit the store shelves. It is the most over-rated system one could imagine: Alignment, Spells and Spell Slots, Level Scaling, it just flat doesn't work for me.
GMing? Genesys, and this is unfortunate, because Genesys is the system I first began GMing with (notwithstanding some childhood ventures into the 3.5e beginner box). Genesys is a great system for a really inexperienced GM, but unbearably limiting for anyone else what with its double-layered dice results and required outcomes.
Quote from: Brand55 on January 03, 2025, 11:29:17 PMQuote from: HappyDaze on January 03, 2025, 11:03:38 PMShadowrun is the big one for me. I played from 1e-5e (although mostly 2e and 4e) and even bought the core rules pdf of 6e, but I just got tired of the edition treadmill (especially when 6e was total shit), the cumbersome mechanics, and the game always seemed to attract crap players (worse than 5e D&D for weird shit turned up to 11 all the fucking time).
Not looking to derail the thread, but as a quick aside did you ever find a good alternative for cyberpunk games? My group was never able to get into the newer Shadowrun editions, and while I have Cities Without Number it still isn't perfect.
To answer the original question, there are a number of games I'd never want to run or play again. Some of them have already been mentioned, but I'll go with one that I haven't seen listed: Exalted (any edition, but especially 2nd). I don't think I've ever seen a game that actively hates the GM as much as Exalted. The amount of paperwork and memorization required to handle even one moderately powerful NPC is staggering, and it only gets more complicated as fights get more involved. Other games can handle Exalted's power level in much simpler fashion, so for me I never see myself opening those books again.
I never really looked for a cyberpunk alternative to replace Shadowrun. I have several I can go to for non-magical-hybrid cyberpunk, but Shadowrun killed my interest in they magical-hybrid version.
I too have walked from Exalted. I own everything from 1e and stopped after the core rules to 2e. I did pick up Exalted Essence, and while it's "condensed down" from 3e, it's hardly rules light like I was hoping for. I agree with you in all regards that it is a nightmare to GM and even hard for any but a driven system master of a player to get into.
Quote from: MerrillWeathermay on January 04, 2025, 09:57:41 AMGURPs: never got into this game
I was limiting myself to mentioning only games I'd actively run & played extensively then walked away from. If I mentioned all the games I just said no to after first contact, then I'd have quite a few more entries on my list. And yes, GURPS is certainly one of them.
Quote from: Brand55 on January 03, 2025, 11:29:17 PMQuote from: HappyDaze on January 03, 2025, 11:03:38 PMShadowrun is the big one for me. I played from 1e-5e (although mostly 2e and 4e) and even bought the core rules pdf of 6e, but I just got tired of the edition treadmill (especially when 6e was total shit), the cumbersome mechanics, and the game always seemed to attract crap players (worse than 5e D&D for weird shit turned up to 11 all the fucking time).
Not looking to derail the thread, but as a quick aside did you ever find a good alternative for cyberpunk games? My group was never able to get into the newer Shadowrun editions, and while I have Cities Without Number it still isn't perfect.
To answer the original question, there are a number of games I'd never want to run or play again. Some of them have already been mentioned, but I'll go with one that I haven't seen listed: Exalted (any edition, but especially 2nd). I don't think I've ever seen a game that actively hates the GM as much as Exalted. The amount of paperwork and memorization required to handle even one moderately powerful NPC is staggering, and it only gets more complicated as fights get more involved. Other games can handle Exalted's power level in much simpler fashion, so for me I never see myself opening those books again.
You could check out this thread: https://www.therpgsite.com/reviews/badapple-reviews-cyberpunk-games/ I've reviewed several games and I think all the popular cyberpunk options currently on the market.
The three that stand out to me the most are Neon Blood, Zaibatsu, and Carbon 2185. Each has their strengths and I would be happy to play or run any of them.
Quote from: Omega on January 03, 2025, 08:09:41 PMPalladium games is a 50/50 due to the mistreatment of some of its writers. Kevin is a nice guy... till he isnt. I used to know two of the writers for Palladium and still have a huge manuscript that one of them just handed off to me and totally quit RPGs from the bad experience.
At least he's consistent with screwing over the fans as around 5,000 Robotech RPG Tactics backers who didn't get anything beyond the initial wave 1 release because he gambled the remaining KS money on additional stock for retail instead of spending his own can attest to.
There are a lot that I've run or played and have no desire to revisit. Off the top of my head:
- Any WotC D&D edition.
- 2e AD&D
- BECMI D&D
- Castles & Crusades
- True 20
- Savage Worlds
- Mutants & Masterminds
- Champions
- GURPS
- Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles
- Chivalry & Sorcery
- Trail of Cthulhu
- Top Secret
- James Bond 007
- Star Frontiers
- Chill
- Vampire/Werewolf/Mage/etc
- Paranoia
- Toon
Definitely others that didn't immediately come to mind. With that list it's not that I think those games are necessarily bad, but for many of them I prefer alternatives or I just don't have any interest.
Pathfinder 1e
I ran Pathfinder 1e for years but the thought of going back and doing that again just gives me a headache.
Anything with the Palladium megaverse system
Same thing. Just think about dealing with this janky mess of a system makes my head hurt.
oWoD especially cross-over play
Same thing. I might consider Orpheus since it's self-contained.
Any Shadowrun
I have been hoping for Shadowrun to be good for ages. I got four editions before giving up. They manage to make it suck in a different way every time.
Exalted
What a tiresome mess this one was to run. It's a pity because I like the idea and setting. I spent way too much money on Exalted books trying to like it. The more they expanded the system, the worse it got.
I will probably never play GURPS or Hero system again because it's damn near impossible to find players and just thinking of running them on a VTT makes my head hurt.
D&D 3, 3.5 and 4th, rolemaster and a whole host of other games, given what's out there! It's just impossible to try them all.
Quote from: ElifeLau on January 05, 2025, 04:49:46 PMD&D 3, 3.5 and 4th
Same, 3 and up just never appealed to me. 5e I did try out in a local game, and its ok, but it just didn't have anything special about it. Just felt so lifeless. All of that was expected from a game that is supposed to have broad appeal.
Quote from: Koltar on January 03, 2025, 11:33:20 PMDungeons & Dragons - ANY version.
The store once drafted me to run a session of it with intoductory materials WOTC sent out.
I read the stuff over night and faked my way through it based on GM-ing other role playing games over the years.
I did keep it moving and the players had a good time.
Its just NOT 'my bag' or style.
Last time I did any Fantasy or 'Sword & Sorcery' setting it was with the DUNGEON FANTASY rules thats a GURPS variant.
- Ed C.
Even B/X or AD&D 1st ed?
Quote from: yosemitemike on January 05, 2025, 06:02:31 AMPathfinder 1e
I ran Pathfinder 1e for years but the thought of going back and doing that again just gives me a headache.
Anything with the Palladium megaverse system
Same thing. Just think about dealing with this janky mess of a system makes my head hurt.
oWoD especially cross-over play
Same thing. I might consider Orpheus since it's self-contained.
Any Shadowrun
I have been hoping for Shadowrun to be good for ages. I got four editions before giving up. They manage to make it suck in a different way every time.
Exalted
What a tiresome mess this one was to run. It's a pity because I like the idea and setting. I spent way too much money on Exalted books trying to like it. The more they expanded the system, the worse it got.
I will probably never play GURPS or Hero system again because it's damn near impossible to find players and just thinking of running them on a VTT makes my head hurt.
Amusingly, your list is very similar to mine. Pathfinder/3.5 is a mess, with the math getting out of hand quickly, the idea that a DM has to use the same rules as players when making monsters being anathema to me, and the purposely designed trap feats as a barrier to novice players. I'm glad it's dead/dying.
Palladium is such a trash system. I recently (for nostalgia's sake) tried to run a Beyond the Supernatural campaign for the same group that had so much fun with it when we were teenagers. I tried both my original version and the newer version, and much misery was had at the table. Several PCs were basically useless, and the mage was better at everything that everyone else was supposed to do. Never again.
Ditto oWoD and Shadowrun. With Shadowrun, talk about taking a cool concept, slowly destroying that concept edition after edition, and making a shaky system worse over time. Bleh.
Never played Exalted. Took one look at the rules and noped out instantly.
Used to play HERO system (Champions, et al.). I've just grown beyond any system that I need a piece of software to make a character efficiently (looking at 4e D&D as well). It's dead to me.
I'm usually a never-say-never guy. But MOST of the time I'm looking for either new-systems that do something specific well, or where a system or setting might have material I would happily port over to my go-to systems.
Some systems I'd never run simply because their design philosophy is 1) not necessary due to me having something that can do it with better fidelity. 2) I the design is just shit.
Such systems are: FATE, 4e D&D, PbtA-based games come to mind.
But there are systems I'd *generally* never run unless my players *really* wanted me to run them. GURPS, Hero System, BRP/CoC.
Quote from: Brad on January 04, 2025, 09:38:14 AMPalladium dies whenever Kevin dies. He will never retire, and certainly never give anyone control over his company in any capacity. I could be wrong, but I doubt it.
Nah. Sean Roberson is his partner now, he's young, and breathing new life into Palladium on several fronts. He's cleaning up Kevin's massive backlog and starting to get new Palladium material out the door again!!! And he's also continuing publishing Palladium Rifts content for Savage Worlds too. (I'm hoping they do Palladium Fantasy for SW).
Kevin has already stated he wants to take a step back and loosen the reins on things.
Quote from: tenbones on January 06, 2025, 12:29:02 PMKevin has already stated he wants to take a step back and loosen the reins on things.
I am in absolute shock...no, really.
Quote from: blackstone on January 06, 2025, 09:26:31 AMQuote from: Koltar on January 03, 2025, 11:33:20 PMDungeons & Dragons - ANY version.
Its just NOT 'my bag' or style
- Ed C.
Even B/X or AD&D 1st ed?
NOPE.
I am 'odd' or unusual compared to other gamers. The first RPG 'campaign' I ever played in for more than one session was not "Dungeons & Dragons" but classic little book
TRAVELLER back around 1981.
TRAVELLER was the role playing game that 'took' with me and fired up my imagination.
Think I had played once in a D&D session the year before - but it didn't work out. Also there were a group of guys that invited me to their group of D&D ..but that didn't work out.
- Ed C.
Quote from: Koltar on January 06, 2025, 01:48:14 PMQuote from: blackstone on January 06, 2025, 09:26:31 AMQuote from: Koltar on January 03, 2025, 11:33:20 PMDungeons & Dragons - ANY version.
Its just NOT 'my bag' or style
- Ed C.
Even B/X or AD&D 1st ed?
NOPE.
I am 'odd' or unusual compared to other gamers. The first RPG 'campaign' I ever played in for more than one session was not "Dungeons & Dragons" but classic little book TRAVELLER back around 1981.
TRAVELLER was the role playing game that 'took' with me and fired up my imagination.
Think I had played once in a D&D session the year before - but it didn't work out. Also there were a group of guys that invited me to their group of D&D ..but that didn't work out.
- Ed C.
Huh. That's interesting. Your experience is a different take than most.
GURPS - just too crunchy
Space Opera - just too confused
Star Frontiers - just too retarded
DnD 4E - just too WoW
DnD 5E - just too disinterested
FATE - just too "mother may I?"
d20 Star Wars - just too "DnD in Spaaaaccce!"
SWN - just too "DnD in Spaaaaccce!"
Anything White Wolf - just too flamboyantly weird of a fan base
Anything Palladium - just too "one size fits all" and Siembada
FFG/Genesis Star Wars - just too gimmicky with dice
Quote from: Brad on January 06, 2025, 12:36:52 PMQuote from: tenbones on January 06, 2025, 12:29:02 PMKevin has already stated he wants to take a step back and loosen the reins on things.
I am in absolute shock...no, really.
Yeah me too. But despite the overgrown janky system, I love me some Palladium Megaverse lore. It's not all good, but the good stuff in it hits hard. It makes me happy that someone is going to keep the torch lit over there.
Quote from: tenbones on January 06, 2025, 04:13:10 PMQuote from: Brad on January 06, 2025, 12:36:52 PMQuote from: tenbones on January 06, 2025, 12:29:02 PMKevin has already stated he wants to take a step back and loosen the reins on things.
I am in absolute shock...no, really.
Yeah me too. But despite the overgrown janky system, I love me some Palladium Megaverse lore. It's not all good, but the good stuff in it hits hard. It makes me happy that someone is going to keep the torch lit over there.
It was good for its time and I loved it to death despite the rules jank but I'm not sure it holds up so well after all these decades. Almost no one other than middle aged men who remember it from the 90s ever talk about and I cant recall ever seeing an active topic on it populated by younger gamers with no nostalgia. I fully admit my biases though both in favor of the lore as well as against Pal!adium as a company.
I have a (mostly nostalgic) fondness for Palladium Fantasy RPG -- the one with the black and red cover. I never cared about Palladium's other titles, though (e.g., Rifts, et cetera).
For the Palladium lovers apparantly they have a youtube channel (well they have had it for 3 years or so) but now they have added a bunch of content in the last month or so, but you probably knew that.
https://www.youtube.com/@palladiumbooks834
Add to my list Traveler. The system is, eh, but for fucks sake the fanbase turns me off running or playing it ever again.
I'll take Star Frontiers over that any time. Easy to learn and teach percentile system, semi-hard fiction. But Jesus Christ the Traveler fanatics despise it and cant ever shut their damn mouths.
Universe from SPI. I love the system for its robust starsystem gen. But it is such an intricately convoluted system. I suspect Im one of the few people to ever actually run it. But alot of the complexity is front loaded during chargen and other generative moments. Your PC will have little lists for what envoronments and gravities they do well in and what ones they do worse in. They will have social standings, probably done stuff for a few years before game start and several other little things that can come into play later.
Would I run it now if given a chance? Probably not. Re-learning that maze would be a task. But who knows.
I would pass on anything that runs on the Phoenix Command system. We played a few games of the original Aliens rpg that used it. I don't know what those guys were thinking.
I'd also skip Exalted 1e/2e. I haven't seen 3e. I always thought I should like Exalted, but I just didn't until a friend ran it in FATE.
Quote from: Omega on January 06, 2025, 10:45:46 PMAdd to my list Traveler. The system is, eh, but for fucks sake the fanbase turns me off running or playing it ever again.
I'll take Star Frontiers over that any time. Easy to learn and teach percentile system, semi-hard fiction. But Jesus Christ the Traveler fanatics despise it and cant ever shut their damn mouths.
Universe from SPI. I love the system for its robust starsystem gen. But it is such an intricately convoluted system. I suspect Im one of the few people to ever actually run it. But alot of the complexity is front loaded during chargen and other generative moments. Your PC will have little lists for what envoronments and gravities they do well in and what ones they do worse in. They will have social standings, probably done stuff for a few years before game start and several other little things that can come into play later.
Would I run it now if given a chance? Probably not. Re-learning that maze would be a task. But who knows.
If you dont mind me asking, whats wrong with traveller's fanbase.
D&D 3.x, 4e, 5e. Frankly, I've been dipping my toes into OSR and I'm more enamored of "my ideas on how to make D&D better" than any clones of the original. I think I just played too much and I'm bored of it. Also, later editions are just supers in fantasy-land. Would rather use a proper supers game.
GURPS. I do love it, but boy did I find Improv with the rules a pain. Just too many rules. I still use it as a reference and measuring stick. If I need an idea on how to handle something, how much damage it should do, what special features it has, how much it might have cost... I use GURPS as the Encyclopedia RPGica and I'm happy with it.
PbtA, FATE, or games with meta-narrative rules. I like my traditional games without a bunch of meta-points and plot-editing nonsense. There are some interesting things in some of these games but actual play annoys me to no end.
AFMBE, Terra Primate, Conspiracy X. The dice mechanic annoys me. Lots of good stuff in here but I always want to convert to a simpler Stat + Skill + 2D6 thing. Easier to just use something like Cepheus and steal things like zombie/primate/home base creation.
It's a dead system, but I remember playing in a game of Twilight 2000 2.2 rules. The one where each character could have multiple actions per turn and a single action could fire 3 or more bullets. My guy was the SAW gunner and his M249 shot 10 bullets when fired. Then you had to roll to-hit for each of those bullets at the primary target. Then locations for each and damage for each. Then you rolled any bullets that missed at the next target down range and repeated the steps for hit. Then anything left was rolled on the next next target and so on until all of the bullets struck something or there were no further targets in range along the line of fire.
Even worse were automatic AoE weapons (like the Mk-19 AGL). In addition to the above steps, you had to roll for deviation from previous round and each could inflict multiple fragmentation hits on multiple targets. This took for-fucking-ever to resolve. We had a single ambush with a dozen militants attacking our HMMWV and 5-ton truck with six PCs between the two vehicles. The first bad guy got off an RPG shot but missed and the fragmentation only did superficial damage. Then the gunner on the HMMWV fired the Mk-19 AGL. It took over an hour to resolve those five grenades. Then the character fired again...
And everyone of us players aside from the GM and the guy playing the gunner decided to leave and grab some snacks at the local 7-11. We got back in 45 mins and they still weren't done resolving the second salvo. When it was finally done another 45 minutes later (this salvo took longer because it actually resulted in far more fragmentation hits) the GM just laid the screen down and said "No More." We all agreed.
Quote from: Koltar on January 06, 2025, 01:48:14 PMQuote from: blackstone on January 06, 2025, 09:26:31 AMQuote from: Koltar on January 03, 2025, 11:33:20 PMDungeons & Dragons - ANY version.
Its just NOT 'my bag' or style
- Ed C.
Even B/X or AD&D 1st ed?
NOPE.
I am 'odd' or unusual compared to other gamers. The first RPG 'campaign' I ever played in for more than one session was not "Dungeons & Dragons" but classic little book TRAVELLER back around 1981.
TRAVELLER was the role playing game that 'took' with me and fired up my imagination.
Think I had played once in a D&D session the year before - but it didn't work out. Also there were a group of guys that invited me to their group of D&D ..but that didn't work out.
- Ed C.
My first role-playing experience was D&D. I didn't like its convoluted and often contradictory rules. A few years later someone introduced me to RuneQuest, which I enjoyed so much more. D&D is a title I won't play again.
I think the big reason for a lot of this comes down to cheaper, or even free alternative of every old game that exists.
Hell, D&D has how many OSR clones at this point? Just naming all the free ones is a bit of a struggle.
My problem is that I love Japanese mecha, RoboTech in particular. That's not a popular genre.
Palladium was our system in high school. We only played those games. It's sad, as a fix is so easy. Just rename what bonuses are meant for which use. A hand-to-hand strike bonus isn't meant to make you aim a gun better? Ok, change gun bonuses to a new term called "Aim". If I have a +2 to Strike and +1 to Block from hand-to-hand, and weapon skills that give a +3 to Aim, and a +3 to Parry, you should not run into that player with a +5 to Strike with their pistol, and a +4 to Parry with their riot shield.
D&D 1E and 2E.
I be prefer the more modern versions of D&D and find 1E especially janky to run. I had a short bout of nostalgia, played a few games of 1E and 2E and realized they were no longer for me plus Gygax onetruwayism especially in the 1E DMG which is a disorganized mess turned me off.
Palladium Books.
I just can't run or play the system anymore. Each time I get migraines and find it too much work.
Given that Savsge Rifts from what I heard does it easier, release more stuff often, advertise and actually listen to the fans. Why bother.
Any overly crunchy system like Hero or Gurps. Both companies make no attempts to streamline their systems, cater to the hardcore fanbase and their exists easier faster generic systems to run.
Any overly political company like evil hat games. I don't buy rpgs from devs who hate me.
Quote from: tenbones on January 06, 2025, 04:13:10 PMQuote from: Brad on January 06, 2025, 12:36:52 PMQuote from: tenbones on January 06, 2025, 12:29:02 PMKevin has already stated he wants to take a step back and loosen the reins on things.
I am in absolute shock...no, really.
Yeah me too. But despite the overgrown janky system, I love me some Palladium Megaverse lore. It's not all good, but the good stuff in it hits hard. It makes me happy that someone is going to keep the torch lit over there.
Strangely, my group is the opposite. We had the most fun with the loaned IPs (TMNT, Robotech, BtS - which I'd argue is just Ghostbusters with the serial numbers filed off). Rifts we played for a short time, but it didn't grab us. And Palladium Fantasy was, quite frankly, an also ran (so never got much time at the table)...
I'm pretty much sworn not to run 5e D&D again. I'll play it if others run it.
Quote from: Slambo on January 06, 2025, 11:35:51 PMQuote from: Omega on January 06, 2025, 10:45:46 PMAdd to my list Traveler. The system is, eh, but for fucks sake the fanbase turns me off running or playing it ever again.
If you dont mind me asking, whats wrong with traveller's fanbase.
I was just about to ask the same thing. Honestly, I haven't heard much about the fanbase whether good or bad so don't have any preconceived notions on either the game (which I haven't played) or the fanbase.
Quote from: RNGm on January 07, 2025, 05:00:59 PMQuote from: Slambo on January 06, 2025, 11:35:51 PMQuote from: Omega on January 06, 2025, 10:45:46 PMAdd to my list Traveler. The system is, eh, but for fucks sake the fanbase turns me off running or playing it ever again.
If you dont mind me asking, whats wrong with traveller's fanbase.
I was just about to ask the same thing. Honestly, I haven't heard much about the fanbase whether good or bad so don't have any preconceived notions on either the game (which I haven't played) or the fanbase.
I'm a fan and will admit to being an asshole at times. Truth be told, I've picked on Omega for his claim that Star Frontiers is harder science fiction than Traveller (it ain't).
That said, some of the biggest stark raving assholes that I've ever met have also been active Traveller fans. Evil Dr Ganymede who is a brilliant planetary scientist, has threatened to punch me in the face over whether or not a habitable world could exist around a type O or B Star. Shawn Driscoll has tried to doxx me in this forum years ago over Traveller rule disagreements. I'd say that Traveller has a problem with that but it is more of a problem with how passionate fans get about the game.
It isn't just the social retard mode of being an asshole. When people get into Traveller, a lot of them really love the system and setting, so they get an almost unhealthy fixation with the game. Mainly because to them, it really is that SFRPG that they've been looking for and have finally found.
I'm an advocate for the game, because I find it to be excellent for what it does. I do also believe that there are some genres that it is wholly unsuited for. For the job I want it to do, I find it to be an incredible tool.
Heh, if I were forced to run 5e, it would be with AD&D style. There would be much dying and you get coffee from a wizard and not a barista. :-)
5th edition D&D to me was not too fun to run. I did enjoy playing it a bit, but the threat level to PCs when compared to 1st edition is I think a bit crazy. The party seemed to start as junior super heroes and just ramp up. I think that sort of game could be fun, it just was not dungeons and dragons to me.
My responses to these quotes are as someone who's only active RPG (besides Radical High) is Star Frontiers:
Quote from: Omega on January 06, 2025, 10:45:46 PMthe fanbase turns me off running or playing it ever again.
I'll take Star Frontiers over that any time. Easy to learn and teach percentile system, semi-hard fiction. But... the Traveler fanatics despise it and cant ever shut their damn mouths.
Although it doesn't bother me, I noticed that.
Quote from: Slambo on January 06, 2025, 11:35:51 PMIf you dont mind me asking [Omega], whats wrong with traveller's fanbase.
I think it was their hostility toward Star Frontiers.
Quote from: jeff37923 on January 07, 2025, 08:10:03 PMTruth be told, I've picked on Omega for his claim that Star Frontiers is harder science fiction than Traveller (it ain't).
I totally agree! Star Frontiers is about as
soft as sci-fi can get.
Quote from: jeff37923 on January 06, 2025, 02:11:25 PMStar Frontiers - just too retarded
I got a good laugh out of this.
---
I don't know if I will never play it again, but I lost interest in The Fantasy Trip, my former go-to FRPG, since Stevie's famous July 8th meltdown. I already own everything from the Legacy edition up till that point, and refusing to play what I do own is cutting your nose off to spite your face. Still, I haven't been feeling it anymore and I just finished packing it all up and putting it in the attic. Maybe someday, I'll feel like playing, and get it out, but if not, maybe It'll show up on eBay sometime.
Quote from: Slambo on January 06, 2025, 11:35:51 PMIf you dont mind me asking, whats wrong with traveller's fanbase.
Much like gurps fans/fanatics... Feels like every other one that opens their damn mouth is a fucking snob or worse. They cant just be happy promoting Traveller. They seem to feel compelled to spit on any other sci-fi game.
Quote from: weirdguy564 on January 07, 2025, 08:44:42 AMI think the big reason for a lot of this comes down to cheaper, or even free alternative of every old game that exists.
Hell, D&D has how many OSR clones at this point? Just naming all the free ones is a bit of a struggle.
My problem is that I love Japanese mecha, RoboTech in particular. That's not a popular genre.
Palladium was our system in high school. We only played those games. It's sad, as a fix is so easy. Just rename what bonuses are meant for which use. A hand-to-hand strike bonus isn't meant to make you aim a gun better? Ok, change gun bonuses to a new term called "Aim". If I have a +2 to Strike and +1 to Block from hand-to-hand, and weapon skills that give a +3 to Aim, and a +3 to Parry, you should not run into that player with a +5 to Strike with their pistol, and a +4 to Parry with their riot shield.
I ran some fun Palladium Robotech sessions. System works fine.
One mecha RPG have been curious about is one called Mecha! I have the Spirit Warriors book (thought it was a core and turns out was an expansion) Great idea of ancient Aztec people transplanted to an alien starsystem by space gods and taught how to pilot mecha powered by the gods and ALOT of sacrifices. Makes me curious what the other factions were like and what the actual system is like.
I dabbled a little with Mecha Crusade for 3e. But have never gotten to run it.
Quote from: jeff37923 on January 07, 2025, 08:10:03 PMI'm a fan and will admit to being an asshole at times. Truth be told, I've picked on Omega for his claim that Star Frontiers is harder science fiction than Traveller (it ain't).
Cute. But you are still wrong.
Try again please. But then maybe you are too busy being a jackass to come up with anything better.
Quote from: Omega on January 12, 2025, 08:20:09 PMQuote from: jeff37923 on January 07, 2025, 08:10:03 PMI'm a fan and will admit to being an asshole at times. Truth be told, I've picked on Omega for his claim that Star Frontiers is harder science fiction than Traveller (it ain't).
Cute. But you are still wrong.
Try again please. But then maybe you are too busy being a jackass to come up with anything better.
Human sized unicellular organisms that are sentient, human sized bugs that still have book lungs and are intelligent, personal force fields that bend light but no gravity control, starships that go FTL when they reach 0.01% lightspeed because space is weird, starship shields that bend light but no gravity control, worlds that are automagically habitable. I could go on, but we've had this conversation before.
There's nothing wrong with being science fantasy. Some of my favorite games are science fantasy. :p
I'm with Jeff on this one. Star Frontiers is simply very far-fetched and silly in its science. But that makes it very "pulp-y", which is why I prefer it to Traveler. And people who prefer Traveler can enjoy that. And people who like both for different reasons can play both.
Eclipse Phase.
Too crunchy, went woke and when they tried the whole " all of the world religions collapsed due to being able to swap bodies except Islam" BS is where the lost me.
Somehow one of the more repressive, rigid religions can adapt to swapping bodies on a whim yet not Christianity or Judaism. Sure. Off to be sold to the nearest rpg store.
Quote from: Abraxus on January 13, 2025, 11:44:53 AMEclipse Phase.
Too crunchy, went woke and when they tried the whole " all of the world religions collapsed due to being able to swap bodies except Islam" BS is where the lost me.
Somehow one of the more repressive, rigid religions can adapt to swapping bodies on a whim yet not Christianity or Judaism. Sure. Off to be sold to the nearest rpg store.
I didn't realize they did that. They lost me at some sort of punch a nazi schtick they included in their second edition with, of course, far leftists being the ones who determine who is and isn't a nazi. And that's coming from someone who heard first hand stories of my parents and grandparents experiencing the real ones first hand.
Greetings!
Yeah, all of these screeching Woke morons in this country sibbing about "Nazis" and proclaiming how they want to "Punch Nazis" are on one hand fucking laughable, and on the other hand, fucking pathetic.
Facing up against the 1st SS Leibstandarte Panzer Division in Europe these morons would shit themselves and fucking beg for mercy. They wouldn't get any though. The SS Panzergrenadiers would fucking mow them down and then laugh as they were ground up under the treads of the Tigers.
My own father fought against the Nazis in Europe. These pathetic children have no idea whatsoever what real Nazis look like.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
I've run a fair amount of 5E, but I have zero interest in running anything D&D that comes after. There are so many great games out there, no one needs to get forced into dealing with Hasbro.
It's interesting (to me) to see Star Frontiers and Traveller love! I've picked them both up over the years, but have never played and only knew one person who played either.
For SF fans, are you playing rules as written some 40 years later?
For Traveller fans, are you playing the Mongoose iteration or another?
Quote from: FASAfan on January 15, 2025, 08:54:55 PMIt's interesting (to me) to see Star Frontiers and Traveller love! I've picked them both up over the years, but have never played and only knew one person who played either.
For SF fans, are you playing rules as written some 40 years later?
For Traveller fans, are you playing the Mongoose iteration or another?
I play Classic Traveller, Mongoose Traveller 2e, and Cepheus Engine regularly but use ideas I like from all of the versions.
Quote from: jeff37923 on January 15, 2025, 09:02:15 PMI play Classic Traveller, Mongoose Traveller 2e, and Cepheus Engine regularly but use ideas I like from all of the versions.
Which is the best one, in your opinion? I have all of those and I, too, think they each do something interesting, but so far I've had the best luck running Classic simply because it's more straightforward.
Quote from: Brad on January 15, 2025, 09:27:31 PMQuote from: jeff37923 on January 15, 2025, 09:02:15 PMI play Classic Traveller, Mongoose Traveller 2e, and Cepheus Engine regularly but use ideas I like from all of the versions.
Which is the best one, in your opinion? I have all of those and I, too, think they each do something interesting, but so far I've had the best luck running Classic simply because it's more straightforward.
I have had my reservations about Mongoose Traveller 2e , but Mongoose has really been improving their products and I like it a lot. Classic has got a bunch of great fan-made and third party material that is breathtaking in its originality and fun. It is tough to choose between those two as which is my favorite.
Quote from: FASAfan on January 15, 2025, 08:54:55 PMIt's interesting (to me) to see Star Frontiers and Traveller love! I've picked them both up over the years, but have never played and only knew one person who played either.
For SF fans, are you playing rules as written some 40 years later?
YES! I am playing Rules-As-Written. I am old-school.
EDIT: Playing R.A.W. is one of the reasons I started playing Star Frontiers. If I wanted to play a game with new rules, I would have chosen a new game. I bought all the scenario modules except for two of them (the last 2 are more costly but I keep checking eBay), and we intend to play through all of them, in order, before I start developing my own campaigns. We're having a blast!
Quote from: tenbones on January 06, 2025, 12:29:02 PM... Sean Roberson is his partner now, he's young, and breathing new life into Palladium on several fronts. He's cleaning up Kevin's massive backlog and starting to get new Palladium material out the door again!!! And he's also continuing publishing Palladium Rifts content for Savage Worlds too. (I'm hoping they do Palladium Fantasy for SW).
Kevin has already stated he wants to take a step back and loosen the reins on things.
Personally, I think it is very telling that 'Savage Rifts' was given the green light before any talk of actually revising the house system is publicly discussed.
'Taking a step back', and actually letting someone touch his baby appear to be two very different things...
Continuing to serve the hardcore base will only get them to the same place as hero and gurps.
The savage world port is just a stop gap. Sooner or later Roberson will have to fish or cut bait.
Quote from: Brad on January 15, 2025, 09:27:31 PMQuote from: jeff37923 on January 15, 2025, 09:02:15 PMI play Classic Traveller, Mongoose Traveller 2e, and Cepheus Engine regularly but use ideas I like from all of the versions.
Which is the best one, in your opinion? I have all of those and I, too, think they each do something interesting, but so far I've had the best luck running Classic simply because it's more straightforward.
I'm not Jeff but I think my opinion matters a little bit. Every 2d6 version of Traveller has it's pros and cons but all of them are pretty good. It's a lucky thing that they are close enough to being compatible that I can kitbash a rules set I really like and no player has ever taken issue. I'm currently running a Hostile game and I'm using material from MgT 2e and CT liberally without any conversion effort on my part.
"SPACE 1889"
I heard about that game for years, was half interested. In recent years I got involved with Steampunk conventions. At a convention I signed up to be a player for a session.
Oh My Gawd it was very disappointing.
It did not have "Stempunk" feel or mood that I wanted in a role playing game session.
- Ed C.
I've mentioned it before. The only game I'd definitley never run again is Amber Diceless.
I'm sure it's got it's fans, but I found the mental load on running the system to be too much for me. I burned out in just a few sessions and never want to try it again.
Quote from: BadApple on January 17, 2025, 04:39:24 PMI'm not Jeff but I think my opinion matters a little bit. Every 2d6 version of Traveller has it's pros and cons but all of them are pretty good. It's a lucky thing that they are close enough to being compatible that I can kitbash a rules set I really like and no player has ever taken issue. I'm currently running a Hostile game and I'm using material from MgT 2e and CT liberally without any conversion effort on my part.
It's the internet, your opinion is irrelevant unless you are super popular, then it's law.
Anyway, yeah, I think that's not a bad way to do it. I think I prefer Classic Traveller for 95% of the game, although the expanded lifepath stuff in Mongoose is nice. Cepheus is a little easier to understand for ship combat, in my opinion. But you're right, it's essentially all the same game with insignificant differences.
Quote from: Brad on January 17, 2025, 06:14:54 PMIt's the internet, your opinion is irrelevant unless you are super popular, then it's law.
Well played.
Quote from: Ratman_tf on January 17, 2025, 05:57:53 PMI've mentioned it before. The only game I'd definitley never run again is Amber Diceless.
I'm sure it's got it's fans, but I found the mental load on running the system to be too much for me. I burned out in just a few sessions and never want to try it again.
As much as I love the game, I can totally see that.
Yaquinto's Pirates & Plunder. Didn't come with any rules for ships, sailing, fights at sea, anything with being on a boat was intentionally left out of the rule book, WTF!
I actually have nothing against Mutants & Masterminds 3rd edition, it's a very playable d20 superhero system with a good powers-system, you can really create any superhero, and there is a huge database of fan-made DC and Marvel characters all premade.
I'm just so burned out on Superheroes as a whole or "free-form" character creation systems I can't see myself as of right now ever running anything like that.
5th Edition D&D: Mechanically I have nothing against it, but it's play culture is pretty garbage. and frankly since the OSR I've never turned back since. I'd play as a player, but never GMing that system again.
Dungeons & Dragons, any edition/variation/clone
GURPs
any variation of Fate 3rd edition+
any RPG by Catalyst Game Labs
any WFRP besides 1st/Hogshead edition
any PbtA games
In no cases is this because of the politics of publishers, of which I couldn't give a crap, but because they suck ass.
Warhammer Fantasy Role-Play. I dig the setting, relatively, it's well-thought out and carves a distinct niche for itself despite using the dwarf/elf/man fantasy tropes. It's got a groovy backsetting and Germanic krieg color and grimdark and everything . . . but I just don't know what to do with it as a GM, or how to get into it in an immersive way as a player. It's just . . . begging me the question of why not play Warhammer Fantasy Battles instead. Too much bogus combat dressed up with boring gore descriptions and canned hunts. Bleck.
Dungeons & Dragons strikes me similarly. It's just kitchen sink nonsense with combat rules that don't simulate anything from books, movies, or comics, but only itself, and itself is deadly dull. The magic is gone from D&D for me. If I want something more tailored to my tastes, that modifying D&D would or could accomplish (as Gygax himself encouraged and presumed), then why not just make my own bespoke game (https://www.therpgsite.com/design-development-and-gameplay/fixating-productions-dead-metal-notes/)?
Quote from: Neoplatonist1 on January 20, 2025, 07:17:00 PMIt's just . . . begging me the question of why not play Warhammer Fantasy Battles instead.
The is a huge tonal change from the RPG to the wargame. The RPG is grim & gritty and characters operate well below the superhero levels of WFB. They really should be seen as two parallel settings that have significant overlap but are ultimately going to give you far differnt play experiences. OTOH, the Soulbound game clings pretty tightly to the Age of Sigmar wargame, so here your question is probably more difficult to answer.
Quote from: HappyDaze on January 21, 2025, 10:21:15 AMQuote from: Neoplatonist1 on January 20, 2025, 07:17:00 PMIt's just . . . begging me the question of why not play Warhammer Fantasy Battles instead.
The is a huge tonal change from the RPG to the wargame. The RPG is grim & gritty and characters operate well below the superhero levels of WFB. They really should be seen as two parallel settings that have significant overlap but are ultimately going to give you far differnt play experiences. OTOH, the Soulbound game clings pretty tightly to the Age of Sigmar wargame, so here your question is probably more difficult to answer.
Possibly true, but I'm not digging the setting enough to split that hair. I just like the imagery and colour. I'm not a big wargamer (I prefer hex-based Avalon Hill-type stuff, in all honesty).
Quote from: LouGarou on January 04, 2025, 07:49:59 AMQuote from: weirdguy564 on January 04, 2025, 06:49:08 AMBut, back to Palladium. When Kevin retires and Sean Robertson writes a 3rd edition I hope he can clarify and simplify the rules. Then I might go back.
It is my sincere and earnest hope we see this with TMNT. It's the perfect place to do it because it doesn't affect the Rifts line. A revision of the core system for a limited release of a retired property would be the perfect soft launch.
This is interesting to hear because even the original TMNT game was essentially Erick Wujcik taming down Megaversal for an introductory audience. The upcoming release this year is supposed to remain compatible with all the older TMNT books, so I wouldn't hold my breath any time soon for another revised release.
Quote from: jeff37923 on January 12, 2025, 09:41:27 PMQuote from: Omega on January 12, 2025, 08:20:09 PMQuote from: jeff37923 on January 07, 2025, 08:10:03 PMI'm a fan and will admit to being an asshole at times. Truth be told, I've picked on Omega for his claim that Star Frontiers is harder science fiction than Traveller (it ain't).
Cute. But you are still wrong.
Try again please. But then maybe you are too busy being a jackass to come up with anything better.
Human sized unicellular organisms that are sentient, human sized bugs that still have book lungs and are intelligent, personal force fields that bend light but no gravity control, starships that go FTL when they reach 0.01% lightspeed because space is weird, starship shields that bend light but no gravity control, worlds that are automagically habitable. I could go on, but we've had this conversation before.
There's nothing wrong with being science fantasy. Some of my favorite games are science fantasy. :p
[/quo
You know. I explained this before and you have oh so conveniently forgotten it.
Obvious you havent even looked at the game.
But lets do this again because you obviously love being wrong.
Dralasites are not unicellular creatures. Says right in the book they are multicellular.
Vrusk have an internal skeleton. Also as stated in the book. They do not have book lungs far as I recall but they do breath through the thorax part. Book states they have lungs, not book lungs.
There is no inviso device in Star Frontiers. There is the Holo projector, but it is very limited and according to the rules only 80% effective. It can be loaded with a cammo projection. But not actual invisibility.
Never says in the game exactly why ships pop into the FTL at exactly 1%. But talking to Cook apparently the idea was it was a quirk of the nebula region the game was set in. Or something else.
As for light bending force fields... uh...where? The ships can have a reflective coating to help counter lasers.
Next stupid... Automatically habitable? Except... not. Mutiny on the Elanor Moraes is all about the PCs exploring a planet with an atmosphere they cant safely breath. Same for at least one other module.
I could go on. But we've had this idiot discussion before.
But sure Star Frontiers blob people baaaad! Traveler magic space kobols goooood!
Keep struggling.
Quote from: Omega on January 22, 2025, 08:01:30 AMQuote from: jeff37923 on January 12, 2025, 09:41:27 PMQuote from: Omega on January 12, 2025, 08:20:09 PMQuote from: jeff37923 on January 07, 2025, 08:10:03 PMI'm a fan and will admit to being an asshole at times. Truth be told, I've picked on Omega for his claim that Star Frontiers is harder science fiction than Traveller (it ain't).
Cute. But you are still wrong.
Try again please. But then maybe you are too busy being a jackass to come up with anything better.
Human sized unicellular organisms that are sentient, human sized bugs that still have book lungs and are intelligent, personal force fields that bend light but no gravity control, starships that go FTL when they reach 0.01% lightspeed because space is weird, starship shields that bend light but no gravity control, worlds that are automagically habitable. I could go on, but we've had this conversation before.
There's nothing wrong with being science fantasy. Some of my favorite games are science fantasy. :p
[/quo
You know. I explained this before and you have oh so conveniently forgotten it.
Obvious you havent even looked at the game.
But lets do this again because you obviously love being wrong.
Dralasites are not unicellular creatures. Says right in the book they are multicellular.
Vrusk have an internal skeleton. Also as stated in the book. They do not have book lungs far as I recall but they do breath through the thorax part. Book states they have lungs, not book lungs.
There is no inviso device in Star Frontiers. There is the Holo projector, but it is very limited and according to the rules only 80% effective. It can be loaded with a cammo projection. But not actual invisibility.
Never says in the game exactly why ships pop into the FTL at exactly 1%. But talking to Cook apparently the idea was it was a quirk of the nebula region the game was set in. Or something else.
As for light bending force fields... uh...where? The ships can have a reflective coating to help counter lasers.
Next stupid... Automatically habitable? Except... not. Mutiny on the Elanor Moraes is all about the PCs exploring a planet with an atmosphere they cant safely breath. Same for at least one other module.
I could go on. But we've had this idiot discussion before.
But sure Star Frontiers blob people baaaad! Traveler magic space kobols goooood!
Keep struggling.
I'm not the one who can't refute the points I brought up about your favorite science fantasy game.
Quote from: D-ko on January 21, 2025, 02:57:56 PMQuote from: LouGarou on January 04, 2025, 07:49:59 AMQuote from: weirdguy564 on January 04, 2025, 06:49:08 AMBut, back to Palladium. When Kevin retires and Sean Robertson writes a 3rd edition I hope he can clarify and simplify the rules. Then I might go back.
It is my sincere and earnest hope we see this with TMNT. It's the perfect place to do it because it doesn't affect the Rifts line. A revision of the core system for a limited release of a retired property would be the perfect soft launch.
This is interesting to hear because even the original TMNT game was essentially Erick Wujcik taming down Megaversal for an introductory audience.
I'm not sure that TMNT&OS is much tamer than the existing Palladium titles to that date. The scope is narrower but the core systems are the same. I guess it's a matter of what you consider taming.
QuoteThe upcoming release this year is supposed to remain compatible with all the older TMNT books, so I wouldn't hold my breath any time soon for another revised release.
Yeah, I know that's a total pipedream on my part. I honestly don't think we'll ever see a proper revision of the Palladium house system. It's been stealth revised as far as it's going to go with Rifter rules updates, rules changes in new game lines, and that big Rifts universal guide. I expect when Siembieda can't carry on anymore his successor will license the properties to other systems like they've already done with Savage Rifts.
Quote from: LouGarou on January 22, 2025, 11:53:49 PMI'm not sure that TMNT&OS is much tamer than the existing Palladium titles to that date. The scope is narrower but the core systems are the same. I guess it's a matter of what you consider taming.
I never got past character creation in the system (we were playing MDC games like Rifts/Robotech instead at the time) but I read through the books I had (the core book and transdimensional) and I wouldn't have considered the BIO-E system to be streamlined by any metric. I didn't mind it at the time as I was a fan of Palladium's copypasta creation systems (more specifically the one they used for various organizations like in HU) but it never felt streamlined and was just as messy and stream of consciousness as pretty much everything else they put out.
I forgot Shadowrun!
In the early days I was (and largely remain) a purist about Cyberpunk. I had CP2020 - wtf do I need elves and magic in my cyberpunk for? Then I played in a very short-lived campaign... that system... ugh. It only made my general dislike for Shadowrun as a concept more concrete.
These days? I'm more into it, the concept. But that system, in all its editions, just sucks massive ass to me.
I will NEVER run or play Apocalypse World and neither should you
(https://media3.giphy.com/media/iKAd89D42ZNt7CoRRI/giphy.gif?cid=6c09b952dr1anghi5s0xhm8dlg3vewcjkoiom3u1p07nkik8&ep=v1_gifs_search&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g)
Never Play or Run
- Any version of Catalyst Shadowrun.
- PbtA or FitD. If you're not going to lean in to the narrative mechanics (and I won't), what's the point?
- Wraethlu, or anything by Bergstrom
- Probably won't play any 1PgRPG's
- Rifts using Palladium, not very likely
- Any Supers other than FASERIP or MEGS, highly unlikely
- FATE
- AD&D 2.5 (Player's Option bullshit)
- D&D3(unless Scarred Lands, EverQuest or Mongoose Conan)
- D&D4(unless Xcrawl or Wraith Recon)
- D&D5(maybe AiME)
- Path/Starfinder (only Savage Pathfinder)
- WFRP3, GeneSYS, or any "Jay Little-inspired" Narrative Dice game.
- Any game where the designer does not know that any failure can lead to other interesting options, and there's no need for Fail Forward nonsense Because DramaTM