Pre-emptive disclaimer: I am by no means an OSR expert.

Quote from: Voros;961234I would argue it is probably because of the easier availability of the original rules, their superior presentation in the rule books and the inherent virtues of clarity, simplicity and speed of play at the table. And of course how many people got their start in the hobby via the Red Box and even when playing 'AD&D' were in fact playing a mashup of Basic and AD&D?  

I suspect that there are certain simplicities that B/X has compared to od&d that are relatively arbitrary (e.g. A 6th level wizard has 6d4 hd instead of 3d6+1 hd, a cleric has their own attack matrices instead of fighting 'as a [fighting man level title]' that are just plain easier to put into your own words. So if it's relatively arbitrary, why not go with the B/X version? As to the feel of various OSR games, I'd say they often split the difference between od&d and B/X (or the BE portion of BECMI).

Quote from: Baulderstone;961263I started with B/X when I was 11 and loved it, but within a year, I got my hands on AD&D, and simply assumed it to be better. It was "Advanced" after all!Like you say, we simply assumed that B/X was the kids version. I didn't posses the game criticism skills to really think about what was better. Sure, I found the organization of AD&D to be a confusing mess, but clearly, that was on me, so I wasn't going to admit it. Year's later, I gave it another look and really appreciated it.

I think a lot of us had that happen. Advanced was better because it was advanced.

Quote from: JRT;961278One thing people are forgetting too is that, during the last years of his life (the 2000s decade), when Gary would decided to play a D&D game (instead of Lejendary Adventures) at cons or in private, he stated he was using the OD&D "white box" rules with a few supplements and house rules.  That was stated on various message board threads and email and that might have made it seem more appealing to folks.  He wasn't using the AD&D books at that time.

I have no evidence one way or the other, but I somehow doubt it. EGG changed his preferences many times in his life, so 'what Gary prefers' I wouldn't think would have any particular cachet.

Quote from: Nerzenjäger;961280Looking at rpgnow, I would say that OD&D/S&W/Whitebox reigns supreme among the current wave of retroclones and OSR releases. So many games are based on Whitebox, you have almost every genre covered; from Indiana Jones to Star Wars, from John Carter to Lovecraft.

Really? I see some LoFTP, Black Hack, Hydra Cooperative, DCC and Godbound in the most popular lists.

Quote from: Voros;961127I believe estar's OP was partially in response to an absurdly reactionary anti-OSR thread on Knights and Knaves Alehouse.

Check the Q&A threads in Dragonsfoot where RPG designers like David Cook are driven off by fools for supposedly ruining D&D or not being true their half-baked conception of a 'Gygaxian' ideal.

Or read some Grognardia blog posts where he claims Dragonlance 'ruined' D&D, his goofy conception of 'Gygaxian naturalism' or the 'kidification of D&D.' Even worse, read some of the comments on the same blog and you'll find some sad sacks begging to be taught how to play D&D 'properly' from the wise old grognards.

Oh, so you're familiar with the David "Zeb" Cook Q&A are you? I ask because Cook himself never made any such claim and one poster asked him in person what was going on. Cook's response: He's very busy and has little spare time. If you had read the thread (as you pretend) then you would know this.

You're just a motherfucking liar.

Quote from: Sommerjon;961184gronan on the list?  Come on CB, gronan has been Chester all his life It was amusing to watch chirine come here and gronan immediately roll and show his belly.

I think not, but that's from my personal perspective of over forty years. I defer to Gronan on matters that he's the more informed about, and he defers to me on mine. Since the 'Questioning Chirine ba Kal' thread is mostly about a subject I'm described as being the expert on, I'm the dominant one there; in threads on D&D, he is. You've never seen us game, and I think you'd have a very different viewpoint if you had.

All this OSR stuff can be reduced to its simplest form: "Buy my home-brewed rules."

Anything else is just setting material.

Quote from: Elfdart;962341You're just a motherfucking liar.

Thanks for the balanced response. Is everyone on this forum off their meds?

I read the David Cook thread years ago because I'm a fan. There was some definite 2e bitching and one moron who kept asking him minutiae like why a throwing axe did more damage than a whateverthefuck (was that you sunshine?).

I assumed that nonsense would have driven any sane individual off the internet permanently. But I guess Mr. Cook is a saint, no doubt inured to the OCD questions and nerdrage you have so ably demonstrated in your pathetic overreaction.

Amazing I know to consider that some would not want to converse with such well balanced individuals like yourself.

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;962358All this OSR stuff can be reduced to its simplest form: "Buy my home-brewed rules."

Anything else is just setting material.

And if you're going to tart up D&D with your own house rules to make a "new" game, why bother with AD&D?  OD&D is a simple chassis that you can fairly easily add onto. What makes AD&D unique is a web of Byzantine systems and fiddly tables that I certainly wouldn't be interested in trying to build on.

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;962358All this OSR stuff can be reduced to its simplest form: "Buy my home-brewed rules."

Anything else is just setting material.

Yup and you happen to have bought  Matt Sprange's home-brewed rules for Traveller twice.

In case you haven't noticed the entire industry is founded on people buying other people's home-brewed rules.

Quote from: estar;962398Yup and you happen to have bought  Matt Sprange's home-brewed rules for Traveller twice.

In case you haven't noticed the entire industry is founded on people being other people's home-brewed rules.

But Estar, don't you understand? PROFESSIONAL game designs are made with SCIENCE!!!

Here's what most people really forget about the OSR:  That's it's just D&D at the end of the day.  And if you have fun playing any version, any edition, don't let others (including me) dissuade you from enjoying it, or trying out other versions.  That's it.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;962417Here's what most people really forget about the OSR:  That's it's just D&D at the end of the day.  And if you have fun playing any version, any edition, don't let others (including me) dissuade you from enjoying it, or trying out other versions.  That's it.

I would add that is also about using the rules in the way you see fit as well. Not just about playing OD&D but using the OD&D in the matter you find enjoyable which may be 'as is' or kitbashed with other stuff from other RPGs. One of the reason why the use of open content is prevalent.

Quote from: ChristopherKubasik;962406But Estar, don't you understand? PROFESSIONAL game designs are made with SCIENCE!!!

Dang, so I been doing it wrong for 40 years. Just to think I could have had a V-8.

Quote from: estar;962419Dang, so I been doing it wrong for 40 years. Just to think I could have had a V-8.

Oh, man...talk about a dated pop culture reference...worse, I was THERE for it! I can't believe I ate the WHOLE THING!:-)

Quote from: cranebump;962439Oh, man...talk about a dated pop culture reference...worse, I was THERE for it! I can't believe I ate the WHOLE THING!:-)

When I've fallen and can't get up I often wonder where the beef is.

Quote from: Krimson;962440When I've fallen and can't get up I often wonder where the beef is.

I now have to explain when I say "that fart was like a Wendy's hamburger" that it means "hot and juicy."