Quote from: Sommerjon;960996Coming from one of the top 3 you're playing wrong posters here, this is fucking hilarious.

Gotta love it when someone proves your point for you.  Thanks.

Quote from: Sommerjon;960976Not according to the proponents. There was only ONE way to play D&D, and it's their way. In fact, every single Edition of D&D has had a bunch of people with their refusal to move forward, to even try the next edition. Maybe they're afraid they might like it, or it would change how they see their old edition, or some such crap. There's always an excuse not to look ahead, take as objective a view as possible and then decide. Nope, gotta bash every other tribe out there.

Or some of us have a game and enjoy it and see no reason to spend money in a new version either way. I don't follow the industry or visit game stores much so I didn't even know there had been a 3rd edition of AD&D, let alone a 3.5, 4th, and Pathfinder until just a few years ago. And when I found out, I still didn't care. Want to guess whether I care about 5th edition D&D in the least? Play what you want instead of whining on the Internet that somebody doesn't care about your favorite games. Almost no one I have met is interested in The Fantasy Trip and it's really holding me back...

Quote from: Dumarest;961001Or some of us have a game and enjoy it and see no reason to spend money in a new version either way. I don't follow the industry or visit game stores much so I didn't even know there had been a 3rd edition of AD&D, let alone a 3.5, 4th, and Pathfinder until just a few years ago. And when I found out, I still didn't care. Want to guess whether I care about 5th edition D&D in the least? Play what you want instead of whining on the Internet that somebody doesn't care about your favorite games. Almost no one I have met is interested in The Fantasy Trip and it's really holding me back...

Bullshit.

Quote from: CRKrueger;961000Gotta love it when someone proves your point for you.  Thanks.

NP.  Just sad.

Quote from: Sommerjon;961009Bullshit.

If you mean every post you've written in this thread, then you are correct.

I can't help but notice every time you are asked to support your assertions with documentation, you change the subject, and every time you are contradicted you fail to respond and instead write "bullshit" or similar childish statements.

So glad to have the Ignore tool to ignore tools like you.

Quote from: Dumarest;961023So glad to have the Ignore tool to ignore tools like you.

Sommerjon might be a tool, but nothing's bitchier than Ignore List Announcements.  Just sayin'.

Quote from: Sommerjon;960996Hmmm, nope don't think I can.

I can usually point peeps in the right direction, but when I encounter a deliberately clueless person, it's easier to nod and carry on.
Coming from one of the top 3 you're playing wrong posters here, this is fucking hilarious.

I know of Gronan and Krueger, whose the third?

Quote from: CRKrueger;960986If you to a topical forum, by definition, you're going to find people who like that topic and find other topics less interesting.  Storygames go over well on story-games.com, here not so much.  At what point does expressing an opinion about something you don't like become objectively declaring it inferior and denigrating those who like it?

   Probably at the point where people start tossing around phrases like "objectively superior/inferior", "no reason to play it other than nostalgia/neophilia", "[X] ruined the game (full stop)" and other terms that suggest a lack of any positive or negative qualities to the game in question.

Quote from: CRKrueger;961026Sommerjon might be a tool, but nothing's bitchier than Ignore List Announcements.  Just sayin'.

Which is why I put him on my Tongue My Pee Hole List instead.  

Actually, I should change the name.  I should call it my Not Worth The Moments It Takes To Read list.

Quote from: Armchair Gamer;961032Probably at the point where people start tossing around phrases like "objectively superior/inferior", "no reason to play it other than nostalgia/neophilia", "[X] ruined the game (full stop)" and other terms that suggest a lack of any positive or negative qualities to the game in question.

Which started around 1974.

I remember Gary and Rob and Dave in the early days of TSR getting letters DEMANDING that the letter writer's new rules be used to replace some section of the published rules (usually the magic system), and DEMANDING payment and royalties.

"We made up a different magic system that we think is fun, other people might think it's fun too" is one thing.  "Your magic system is HORRIBLE and you must use THIS one instead and pay us $1000 and a 10% royalty" is something else again.

Quote from: Sommerjon;960990Hold on a sec.

You've been here since Jan 2009?  You've never seen the editions wars?

No.

I find edition wars ridiculous. Why would I care someone doesn't like an RPG I don't like? How can it affect me? How can it matter? I play with the people I play with. What does some guy on the internet or some gaming group 1,800 miles away (or wherever) have to do with my fun?

Also, I hadn't played D&D for years. Had no stake in any edition wars about D&D. A few decades ago I was writing material and working on games for FASA, WEG, Mayfair and my focus got moved to the games I was working on. Then I took a break from RPGs for several years. Then in 2000 I started digging into lots of indie games (Sorcerer, Primetime Adventures, Burning Wheel, Hero Wars, and others) as well as games I had loved in years past (like King Arthur Pendragon) and had a blast with them. And then a few years ago I realized something interesting was happening with this Old School thing I had been hearing about and I dug into that. I'm currently running Lamentations of the Flame Princess and looking forward to running Classic Traveller.

Edition wars mean nothing to me.

I do know that in the early 00's when I tried to talk about the indie games I was playing and loving over at RPG.net there was an unexpected resistance to even having anyone post about them. What I learned was that many people take it as a personal attack upon them or what the game like if someone speaks with enthusiasm about something a game they don't know or don't like. Why this is the case, I don't know.

Frankly, when I go to blog posts or forums to look for information about games or play styles my focus is on how to play the games and play them well, or finding more tips about how other people do this. Hanging around on threads where people knock other games seems weird to me. So this is where I might be -- "deliberately clueless" -- as you put it. But I really don't see any loss on my part for this way of interacting with the Internet.

All I can say, regarding this particular thread, is that when I started digging into the OSR I read lots of blogs and forum sites about Old School play. Again, what I found was a lot of specific information about a kind of play that I am currently enjoying. I somehow missed all the hatred you and others are focused on.

Now, don't get me wrong. I know what I like. (Though clearly from the games listed above I can like lots of different kinds of things.) So I can tell you why I prefer the rules of Classic Traveller to those of MegaTraveller and I have no particular need or desire to give MegaTraveller (as an example) equal attention in my life or to be "nice" to it just to be nice. But I also bear MegaTraveller no ill-will. It produces, through the rules, a kind of play that I'm not interested in... and so I don't care about it. Which isn't at all like attacking it, or hating it, or declaring that playing it is wrong, or ruining anything.

What I was asking you to do is point me to the people who do declare those things from the OSR. So you will "nod and carry on" with baseless statements that you can't back up. So... okay.

Quote from: CRKrueger;961026Sommerjon might be a tool, but nothing's bitchier than Ignore List Announcements.  Just sayin'.

Thanks for the etiquette tip. I see Sommerjon is not the only one unaware of the irony in his own postings.

Quote from: CRKrueger;960986I don't deny if you go to Knights and Knaves Alehouse or Dragonsfoot that you'll find some grumpy old bastages.  However, if I'm a Checkers fan, am I really going to find a warm welcome on a Chess forum?  Or if I go to that forum and talk about the complexity of Go am I going to get people who really grok what I'm saying?

Damn I been saying that for years, I concur wholeheartly.

I will only add that the use of open content and digital technology means that no matter how proactive any of these groups they lack the means to hinder anybody to realizing their projects for classic D&D. Or for that matter any other RPG with open content. So let the chess club be the chess club and quit mailing them checker games.

Quote from: ChristopherKubasik;961038All I can say, regarding this particular thread, is that when I started digging into the OSR I read lots of blogs and forum sites about Old School play. Again, what I found was a lot of specific information about a kind of play that I am currently enjoying. I somehow missed all the hatred you and others are focused on.

I believe estar's OP was partially in response to an absurdly reactionary anti-OSR thread on Knights and Knaves Alehouse.

Check the Q&A threads in Dragonsfoot where RPG designers like David Cook are driven off by fools for supposedly ruining D&D or not being true their half-baked conception of a 'Gygaxian' ideal.

Or read some Grognardia blog posts where he claims Dragonlance 'ruined' D&D, his goofy conception of 'Gygaxian naturalism' or the 'kidification of D&D.' Even worse, read some of the comments on the same blog and you'll find some sad sacks begging to be taught how to play D&D 'properly' from the wise old grognards.

Quote from: ChristopherKubasik;961038No.

I find edition wars ridiculous.

I agree with all of this post, including the parts I skipped. But I cut all the rest, because I think that line nicely sums up everything;).

OTOH, using "edition wars rhetoric" makes for a nice joke:D!