What don't you like in your SF RPGs?

C.W.Richeson · February 24, 2007, 11:29:57 PM

Quote from: Dr Rotwang!At first, I thought Vargr and Aslan (in Traveller) were kinda dorky. "Space-dogs?" I said to myself, "0MGWTFXXORZ?!"

Well, not really. It was more of a "Mehhhh..." response. I digress.

But further reading changed my mind. Remember that ad in Dragon that challenged you to pick out the most dangerous combatant between a wolf-dude, a vaguely leonine-guy and a big herbivore that smells funny? Turns out their cultures are so distinct from your expectations that, by golly, even the space-pooches are interesting.

That is one of my favorite RPG ads of all time, I loved it. Traveller is the game I think of when I think of "breaking the species stereotype."

Caesar Slaad · February 24, 2007, 11:41:32 PM

Yeah, the Traveller aliens had pretty humble beginnings. At first, they were pretty much the stereotypes people with bad reactions picture them to be.

But the writers who added to them over the years really added a lot of depth to them.

John Morrow · February 24, 2007, 11:49:02 PM

Overall, I thought you had a good list.

Quote from: Caesar SlaadPlanets that couldn't exist. Star systems that couldn't exist.

How far (nit-picky) do you go with this, and does it extend to the life on those planets? Does this objection also include moons that couldn't exist (e.g., more than one large one, inside the Roche limit, etc.).

Quote from: Caesar SlaadSettings stuck in one star system. Yeah, I know, most prevailing theories suggest that FTL will never be possible. I don't care. This flight of fancy I'll take.

What, in particular bothers you about this? Technically, Firefly/Serenity take place in one system, as does Starhunter & Starhunter 2300, 2001: A Space Odyssey, Total Recall, etc. Does it bother you there or just in your RPGs?

Pierce Inverarity · February 24, 2007, 11:52:03 PM

The K'Kree pass muster. Nay, I go further, they are the only vegetarians I tolerate.

Re. psionics, mecha, Imperial nobles et al., I should have said what Doc R already did: I don't object to these things per se, I just like to keep the genres neatly separate. Traveller is Traveller* and Star Wars is Star Wars, and I like both.

*I notice this actually opens the real can of worms, on whose label are emblazoned the fiery words: "Just What IS Traveller, Exactly?"

And as we all know the answer to that question is...

YES!

jgants · February 24, 2007, 11:56:32 PM

Not a fan of psionics in SF games in general, unless they are carefully controlled (I feel the same way about magic in my fantasy).

Mostly I hate the "the party is a smuggler/merchant crew that performs wacky missions in their space freighter" cliche-fest. I've actually come to where I actively dislike the d6 WEG Star Wars now - solely because of how much they push for that type of game (which I can't stand). Yeah, I know - a lot of people like that kind of thing. I don't.

John Morrow · February 24, 2007, 11:57:27 PM

Quote from: Dominus NoxNo way. Impossible. A lifeless planet with an O2 atmosphere is extremely unlikely as on earth O2 is only produced by biological activity. There doesn't seem to be any way for an O2 atmosphere to exist sans life producing it.

That's a mistake that you'll find all over the place. And even if a planet has life, there is no guarantee that it will be pumping out oxygen or that it doesn't pump out or deal with elements and chemicals that aren't highly toxic to us. Further, the idea that any alien world that hasn't been terraformed or seeded by some variant on the "ancients" theme will have life that's recognizably grass or a tree or an insect or a mammal or whatever form of Earth life you want to pick is highly unlikely. If you want a bunch of human-habitable planets with human-edible life, then humans probably need to have made it that way.

Pierce Inverarity · February 25, 2007, 12:03:48 AM

Quote from: jgantsNot a fan of psionics in SF games in general, unless they are carefully controlled (I feel the same way about magic in my fantasy).

Mostly I hate the "the party is a smuggler/merchant crew that performs wacky missions in their space freighter" cliche-fest. I've actually come to where I actively dislike the d6 WEG Star Wars now - solely because of how much they push for that type of game (which I can't stand). Yeah, I know - a lot of people like that kind of thing. I don't.

Again, I love that setup in Traveller. But, and this is the only correct idea about gaming that Kiero has ever had, in Star Wars you play a Jedi, period.

HinterWelt · February 25, 2007, 01:29:02 AM

I like aliens. I do not like space opera. I like character based story and do not like miniatures games that pretend to be RPGs.

Dominus Nox · February 25, 2007, 03:43:46 AM

Quote from: Pierce InverarityNox, by your own reasoning we could argue there shouldn't be an Imperium but some kind of atomized patchwork of mid-sized alliances and fully autonomous systems.

What's most loathsome about the Imperium, though, is the nobles in their silly uniforms.

Re. psionics, I'm afraid my response is BLLLLEEEARRRGGHHH.

Psionics may be scifi, but the way rayguns are scifi or the Monster from the Green Lagoon. So, they have no place outside Spaceship Zero.

Lastly, no furries or mecha please.

That's it. Like fantasy, scifi is basically all good. I love it to death.

Well, the good point about an imperium, or a democratic federation, is that in time of war you can eventually draw upon everyone's strength faster than you could with a 'patchwork".

Also, the sad fact is some people just have to feel like they're the rulers of the universe, and these people tend to create imperiums. As I said, a democratic republic/federation would work too.

Dominus Nox · February 25, 2007, 03:49:26 AM

Quote from: John MorrowThat's a mistake that you'll find all over the place. And even if a planet has life, there is no guarantee that it will be pumping out oxygen or that it doesn't pump out or deal with elements and chemicals that aren't highly toxic to us. Further, the idea that any alien world that hasn't been terraformed or seeded by some variant on the "ancients" theme will have life that's recognizably grass or a tree or an insect or a mammal or whatever form of Earth life you want to pick is highly unlikely. If you want a bunch of human-habitable planets with human-edible life, then humans probably need to have made it that way.

Well, I never said that a planet would have a human-tolerable atmosphere because it had life. You're of course right a planet could be teeming with life and not have an atmosphere humans could stand, but the salient point is that without life a planet would, it seems as far as we know, have very little if any chance of having a tolerable atmo to humans.

In fact, before earth evolved life, I think it's atmo was mostly ammonia and methane, if I'm not mistaken. What's called a 'reducing atmospehere."

Dominus Nox · February 25, 2007, 03:50:33 AM

Quote from: HinterWeltI like aliens. I do not like space opera. I like character based story and do not like miniatures games that pretend to be RPGs.

Not a terribly original creature, but very, very nicely drawn. Your work?

Mr. Analytical · February 25, 2007, 04:16:26 AM

Quote from: BalbinusEh, it's a classic SF genre element, it doesn't fit hard sf sure, but for most sf it's pretty standard genre material.

Next you'll be saying you don't like ftl...

I don't mind FTL but I do think the time dilation involved in sub-light travel is a cooler plot device than instantaneous travel between star systems.

I don't mind psychic powers when they're used in a Philip K Dick way and all about madness and manipulation and that kind of stuff. When they're just generic cool powers included just for the sake of it then I think it's magic. I've never EVER seen any RPG use them in a worthwhile way.

Dominus Nox · February 25, 2007, 05:17:12 AM

Quote from: Elliot WilenWord.

Mollusk men are fine by me, too.

Ah, a member of the Doctor Zoidberg fanclub, I see.

Dr Rotwang! · February 25, 2007, 09:16:49 AM

Quote from: Pierce InverarityAgain, I love that setup in Traveller. But, and this is the only correct idea about gaming that Kiero has ever had, in Star Wars you play a Jedi, period.

No offense, but nuts to that. As a kid I wanted to be Luke Skywalker, but I soon wised up and now I wanna be Han Solo.

As an aside...I shunned mission-based gaming for years, because I got tired of it. Now, I realize that it's a convenient springboard to adventure, and easy to prep. It's by no means the only way I want a game to start out, but it's a low-stress way to get the ball rolling; I figure, in the course of having wacky starship-delivery adventures, the PCs will develop enough personal hooks for further escapades.

By which I mean to say, jgants, ~~you are wrong and your head is full of poo~~ I totally get where you're coming from, but if you look at it from another angle, you can spot a different use for it.

HinterWelt · February 25, 2007, 10:28:57 AM

Quote from: Dominus NoxNot a terribly original creature, but very, very nicely drawn. Your work?

Mark Brooks, a truly talented artist from the UK. Unfortunately, he is not active in the industry much any more but we keep in touch. A good guy.

The Dras use hydrogen filled bladders to float along in the oxygen bands on certain gas giants. They are thought to be primitive but trainable by gas miners as they have a fondness (an addiction) to sugar. A rather interesting if not practical race.

Bill

What don't you like in your SF RPGs?

Mr. Analytical