Quote from: KoltarWell we could just say the "fancier" and more well-to-do Inns and Taverns in a fantasy world have some kind of resemblance to indoor plumbing inside their establishments.

Sure.  Either that or a bunch of peasants to carry water to you and dispose of your waste.  

Quote from: KoltarIf the player characters are looking  for cheap and affordable when they visit Inns and Taverns - there is always that favored patch of grasss near the trees behind the back of the tavern .

Both kinds of places could likely be present in a fantasy world.

Sure, and that sort of thing can add a lot of color to a setting, making it clear to the PCs what they get for their extra coins staying in the fancy place.  

Quote from: KoltarA starship without working restrrooms? or a designer who forgot to put them on the deckplans?
 Sounds like a cause for crew mutiny to me - or at least a new thread to be started.

Probably forgot them.  Part of the problem in Traveller came from the rules assuming that each cabin had it's own "fresher" and then people drawing new more detailed deck plans of those ships and forgetting to represent any sort of facility in the drawings.  Either that, or they'd add absurdly small facilities to the room.

I remember some speculation about the Klingons from long ago (back when they were really ruthless and mean before they transformed into noble goofballs with silly weapons and bumps on their heads) that they would just use the airlocks, since bathrooms were a luxury that they didn't need to waste space on.  That's always an option.

Good lord, the bathroom discussion has gotten legs!

John, I was kidding you--I'm all for outhouses and random pestilence tables and what not, given the right kind of setting, i.e. Harn, as Eliot mentioned. If one plays a Harnesque kind of D&D, then one ought bring in (or out) the latrines. If not, not. Conan doesn't spend a lot of time in the john.

Quote from: Pierce InverarityJohn, I was kidding you--I'm all for outhouses and random pestilence tables and what not, given the right kind of setting, i.e. Harn, as Eliot mentioned. If one plays a Harnesque kind of D&D, then one ought bring in (or out) the latrines. If not, not. Conan doesn't spend a lot of time in the john.

I'm not taking this all that seriously, either.

The reason I responded was that, sometimes, I think reality is more interesting than anachronism.  For example, making the players go out to the outhouse creates an opportunity for an ambush or robbery.  Having a dirty chamber pot emptied on to the characters from an upper story might complicate the PC's trip to see the local prince if it hits them.  Having servants draw a bath or come around to clean out chamber pots gives the players NPCs to react to that might have interesting rumors, and so on.  The same is true concerning stepping outside of the camp to relieve one's self (it's been used as a plot point in horror movies and action movies).

Of course you can find another solution to the toilet issue in Korgoth of Barbaria (you can watch it here).

Poop gnomes.

Poop gnomes dispose of your adventurer's foul loaves, and that's how they survive.

The End.

Quote from: Dr Rotwang!Poop gnomes.

Or if you're playing D&D... an Otyugh. :eek:

Quote from: StuartOr if you're playing D&D... an Otyugh. :eek:

Well, that's sorted.

I also dont like half-breeds that much, outside of half-elves -- because, hey...who wouldn't?

Default pseudo-medieval pseudo-feudalism (if you're going to do feudalism, go all the way like Kaldor on Harn; otherwise, it was a specific result of a specific geo-economic-political situation and not likely to arise in other circumstances).

Long-term technological stasis (yes, JRRT, I'm looking at you).

Long-term political stasis (ten-thousand-year empires and whatnot; and by the way probably antithetical to feudalism).

D&D-style religions and tangible gods, alignment-specific Outer Planes, alignment languages (I think I threw this one out in 1979), and for that matter alignment in general (especially when coupled with the cheerful amorality that most players have -- "oops, we burned down the city," says the chaotic good character, "guess we're never coming back here, then!").

Dungeons.

Most monsters, especially the plethora of "adversary" humanoid races (to use the D&D term).


I think that's all for now.

I've been staring at this thread for days, trying to think of what exactly I hate in my fantasy. But it's hard. I mean...it's fantasy. Wizards, elves, magic swords, dungeons, impossible cities...it's all gold to me.

But, you know...still got to hate. So I guess, like...D&D gnomes and halflings. Together. Too many little people stepping on each other's toes.

And a system that gives you too few incentives to use a spear.

Quote from: balzacqDefault pseudo-medieval pseudo-feudalism (if you're going to do feudalism, go all the way like Kaldor on Harn; otherwise, it was a specific result of a specific geo-economic-political situation and not likely to arise in other circumstances).

Long-term technological stasis (yes, JRRT, I'm looking at you).

Long-term political stasis (ten-thousand-year empires and whatnot; and by the way probably antithetical to feudalism).

D&D-style religions and tangible gods, alignment-specific Outer Planes, alignment languages (I think I threw this one out in 1979), and for that matter alignment in general (especially when coupled with the cheerful amorality that most players have -- "oops, we burned down the city," says the chaotic good character, "guess we're never coming back here, then!").

Dungeons.

Most monsters, especially the plethora of "adversary" humanoid races (to use the D&D term).


I think that's all for now.

Good list.

Syllableitis, behold, tis the lost gate of shal'nad'koroth.  Get a grip.

But above all, lack of internal consistency.  The fact a setting has magic doesn't mean it needn't make any sense.  People are still people, logic will still apply (save when it breaks down in the face of magic possibly), if flying monsters are common people won't build castles the same way.

Dude, you accept dragons but can't accept x is not a good argument.  Not if x is just lazy setting design, anyway.

Oh, and overscientifying it, The Riddle of Steel did this.  A dude cast spells and ages people, and then the game witters on about cellular growth or somesuch.  The moment the spell was cast we left our laws of physics behind, consistency yes, hard sf with magic not so much.

Ah, spellcasting, yes that reminds me. I'm not very keen on "spells as powers", which is one reason why I'm a little suspicious of any Fantasy Hero game that doesn't establish magical guidelines to create a specific flavor and consistency across magic, or within a few discrete types of magic.

I also don't care much for magic systems that were designed on the theory that magic is like a computer program, with a set of verbs & syntax that then has to be filtered through interpretation. Ars Magica for example. I may be an old fogie but I prefer the idea of magic as distinct "recipes", or as demonic summoning.

Non-human races.  I want human-centric fantasy, dammit.

Too much magic.  Magic should be rare and feared.  Magical items should be artifacts with histories.

If the setting is pre-Medieval, I'm OK with Pantheons o' gods if they are treated like a real pantheon.  But if the setting is pseudo-medieval, then have the balls to have monotheistic societies and quit being pussies about incorporating real religions.

Related to that - pick a historical time equivalent and stick with it.  Please don't mix and match stuff from the ancient world with stuff from the classical world and stuff from the medieval world.

It's time to let some of the D&Disms go, already.  Lay off the elves and dwarves.  Get rid of the stupid, pointless cleric archetype.  While you're at it, get rid of the bizarre warrior-monk crap, too.  Alignments, Vancian magic - you guys get in the incinerator too.

Unfortunately, I'm very much in the minority.  I'd love to play a game like Conan or Harnmaster or A Game of Thrones, etc.  - but the people in the mass market apparently all want to be half-dragon/half-elf warrior/wizards that carry two dozen magical items.

Quote from: jgantsBut if the setting is pseudo-medieval, then have the balls to have monotheistic societies and quit being pussies about incorporating real religions.

This is something that I've thought about a bit without coming to any satisfactory conclusions. Even Harn fails this test, being very European-medieval in many ways but having a pantheon. (Not to mention, one of those pantheons-as-competing-churches things. But heck, the setting dates from the early '80s.)

However, it's interesting to speculate what a post-Roman Northern Europe would have looked like without Christianity, and I don't see a good reason for it not to have looked similar to Harn.

Quote from: jgantsIt's time to let some of the D&Disms go, already.

I agree with this...a lot.

Regards,
David R

Quote from: David RI agree with this...a lot.

Regards,
David R

I'm not done with 'em!

To be honest I think every trope in fantasy has its time/place/use so there's little I dislike, can't even think of something right now.