Come to think of it, I don't like religion in fantasy games. Not if (as is almost always the case) the god in question is some anthropomorphic dude with a big hammer, or a double axe, or whatever. I can't take these figures seriously.

By extension, therefore, I hate those who do, i.e. clerics.

Single exception: In one campaign we did have a PC who looked like Friar Tuck and who worshipped the Green Man (i.e., he was constantly plastered), as per some Dragon(?) article. That was very cool.

And another thing. I hate...I mean dislike...when fantasy settings use real world cultures as templates for their cultures.

Regards,
David R

Quote from: David ROkay why the cleric hate ? Now the reason why I hate 'em is because they just seems to be another school of magic with a particluar dogma attached. But that's my hate...what's yours

Game-wise, I think they're just boring. Conceptually they're the fleet tankers when everyone else is playing battleships, aircraft carriers, and submarines. Yeah, I hear they've been buffed up in D&D to compensate; I don't know how modern players see them, but to me they feel drab.

In terms of imaginative content, they're just another example of "D&D fantasy" that doesn't really have an analogue in myth, folklore, or fiction. The original conception from ODD (and maybe AD&D, I don't remember) was that they were supposed to be like Templars--monastic fighting men. But the arrival of the Paladin pretty much eclipsed that conception, so now they're preachy padres-cum-medics with weird weapon restrictions. (Yes, I know about Odo of Bayeux. So an entire class is based off of one dude?)

I prefer priests proper, even while acknowledging they don't suit the "adventuring" model of play so much. No assumption of combat ability greater than an adept. But also, no flashy combat spells...in fact, I probably wouldn't use priests as PCs, more likely NPCs only unless the game had a more social interaction/intrigue paradigm allowing non-fighty characters to do interesting stuff. And even then I'd anchor them pretty tightly to a religious hierarchy and/or a set of beliefs, meaning that they'd have a tough time fitting into a high plains drifter-type party.

BUT having said all that, if I run a Rules Cyclopedia game, which I may, I'm just not going to worry about it. I'll allow hob- er, halflings in the game if the players want. It's more the assumption that the PC types in a game other than D&D have to include a fightin' holy man that I dislike.

Drow.  Specifically emo drow (or emo fantasy anything, really).

And my halfings are small, chubby, have furry feet, and generally are much better at staying home and having 2nd breakfast than adventuring or doing incredible backstab damage.  When they have to adventure, there's a lot they have to overcome.  They aren't kender, or half-kender, or kender-influenced.

And I hate kender.

Fantasy worlds you're given no reason to interact with other than killing things and taking their stuff.

Religious systems that are basically competing Christian cults.

Religious systems where evil can be potentially rewarded post mortem.

Inns with no visible means of support.

Large predators with no visible means of support.

Shopping establishments with no visible means of support, and storage facilities with more capacity than a Wal-Mart distribution warehouse

Quote from: David RAnd another thing. I hate...I mean dislike...when fantasy settings use real world cultures as templates for their cultures.

Regards,
David R

:confused:

I'm grateful for that.  I can't imagine playing in a setting that had cultures completely alien to me.  It would take years to even learn the setting, let alone play in it.  (This is, I suppose, one of the reasons why I could never get into Tekumel.)

The whole 'these-guys-are-the-quasi-Vikings' and 'those-guys-are-the-faux-Normans' is extremely helpful to get a game going.  

Sure you can twist things around a bit (e.g. "this culture is like 14th century Scotland but with a small number of horribly effete immortal elvish rulers", or "this society is like 17th century England, but with magic instead of technology, and the 'Oliver Cromwell' guy is an uber-necromancer -- oh yeah, the 'ersatz Irish' are all berzerker halflings").  

But ultimately basing your fantasy realms on real world societies, at least to some extent, is both extremely efficient and conducive to 'immersion'.

Maps of inns without bathrooms!

Quote from: Elliot WilenIn terms of imaginative content, they're just another example of "D&D fantasy" that doesn't really have an analogue in myth, folklore, or fiction

That's precisely the reason for my anti-clerical attitude.

Psionics and martial arts.

Quote from: Zachary The FirstAnd I hate kender.

From this day on, we are as brothers.

Quote from: Akrasia:confused:

I'm grateful for that.  I can't imagine playing in a setting that had cultures completely alien to me.  It would take years to even learn the setting, let alone play in it.  (This is, I suppose, one of the reasons why I could never get into Tekumel.)

The whole 'these-guys-are-the-quasi-Vikings' and 'those-guys-are-the-faux-Normans' is extremely helpful to get a game going.  

But ultimately basing your fantasy realms on real world societies, at least to some extent, is both extremely efficient and conducive to 'immersion'.

This is exactly what my players say. Difficult for me, 'cause I'm the guy, who really digs settings like Jorune and Tribe 8.

I think the main problem I have with fantasy RPGs and fantasy in general, is that it all seems so familiar. The alieness which I strive for in my homebrew settings seems lacking in most fantasy [games] which, to my mind at least is what the genre should/could be all about.

Don't get me wrong. I've managed to run extremely well recevied games in my fantasy settings, but you raise some very good points. Most folks (all I would say) prefer fanatsy settings which have a familiar feel to them because it's easier to get into.

I on the other hand take Jorune's "Leave your world behind" tagline, literally

Regards,
David R

Quote from: David RYou've got to give a little more detail

I mean can you give some examples of "different for difference sake" because the way how I see it, most published fantasy settings fall into this trap...

Regards,
David R

Hmm, There was a game in the 90s called Spiro. It had a mechanic that "emphasized Roleplaying over Rollplaying" supposedly to reinforce the setting. The setting, I kid you not, was a reverse map of Europe with the names also reversed. So, London==Nodnol. The system had you rolling d12's but was basically oWod if I remember correctly. I do not have any modern examples that wont start flame wars (or that I can think of in my caffeine deficient state). Some could say that is just crappy but a lot of it was just the author trying disparately to be different and failing. A lot of that can only be picked up in the reading of a book. Sorry.

I honestly can live with cheese (reversed map of Europe) or originality for its own sake ("Mechanic says you must flip a card into a hat to make an action) but not both at the same time. As well, if a setting can't keep its own stuff straight (inconsistency)...I will just pass.

Bill

Quote from: Pierce InverarityMaps of inns without bathrooms!

Do you think they had indoor plumbing in the Middle Ages?  The "bathroom" is likely outside (or just the outside) or a piece of pottery in the room.

Added:  I guess I should add "obvious anachronisms" to things I don't like in Fantasy RPGs.

Quote from: HinterWeltInconsistency, cheese and being different for difference sake.

Seconded.

Quote from: mythusmageReligious systems where evil can be potentially rewarded post mortem.

I don't think that's always a problem, depending on how it's handled.  I've never read Dante's Inferno but the version written by Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle (spoiler warning)

Spoiler

had Hell structured so that everyone essentially kept themselves there because there was some "reward" in their punishment that encouraged them to endure their punishment rather than walking away from it because they'd have to give up the "reward" to do so. (This is one of the things that the science fiction author, who is the main protagonists of the story, comes to understand as he walks through the various punishments.)