What don't you like in your fantasy RPGS

David R · February 23, 2007, 06:54:01 PM

I don't like elves and dwarves. Most fantasy settings have 'em. When I use Earthdawn - a setting which I really like - I remove E&D...ED :eek: ...from play. Naturally this bothers my players who seem to love them. There are other stuff which I don't like, but this one really sticks out. What are some of the things you don't like in your fantasy settings?

Regards,
David R

blakkie · February 23, 2007, 06:56:58 PM

Quote from: David RI don't like elves and dwarves.

I'd sign up for such a thing in a heartbeat...if I lived in the same country as you.

It is so very, very tough to find people willing to run an all human fantasy setting. I'm really not big on any non-humans. Although I'd settle for no elves or dwarves. Just like a thousand dead mimes on the bottom of the ocean. A good start.

HinterWelt · February 23, 2007, 07:28:05 PM

Inconsistency, cheese and being different for difference sake.

David R · February 23, 2007, 07:31:53 PM

Quote from: HinterWeltInconsistency, cheese and being different for difference sake.

You've got to give a little more detail

I mean can you give some examples of "different for difference sake" because the way how I see it, most published fantasy settings fall into this trap...

Regards,
David R

droog · February 23, 2007, 07:53:47 PM

I think it's actually easier to talk about what I do like in fantasy than what I don't like. For example, elves and dwarves could be seen as hackneyed, but Glorantha (for one) has an unusual take on them that rejuvenates the idea. Burning Wheel has elves and dwarves that are very Tolkien, but does things with the mechanics that make them interesting.

What I do like to see is an individual approach that doesn't take anything for granted. So often I see people discuss 'fantasy' as if it's this thing that must start from certain basic assumptions. It is my problem with genre fiction of all types.

Pierce Inverarity · February 23, 2007, 07:58:15 PM

Depending on treatment I too am cool with virtually all fantasy ingredients.

Except for E & D.

By which I mean Elminster & Drizzt, naturally.

David R · February 23, 2007, 08:09:12 PM

Quote from: droogSo often I see people discuss 'fantasy' as if it's this thing that must start from certain basic assumptions. It is my problem with genre fiction of all types.

I may have phrased the question badly, but this is what I was trying to get at. Looking through the vanilla fantasy thread it seems to be, that the reason why most(?) fantasy games are successful is because they start from certain basic assumptions. I'm curious as to whether what folks dislike in their fantasy settings are the same basic assumptions about fantasy that makes fantasy games popular.

Regards,
David R

David R · February 23, 2007, 08:10:30 PM

Quote from: Pierce InverarityBy which I mean Elminster & Drizzt, naturally.

These two have achieved genre status...

Regards,
David R

arminius · February 23, 2007, 08:11:37 PM

I'll see your E&D, and raise you an H.

In fact, I'd like a truly generic fantasy game (i.e., not D&D fantasy) with Elves & Dwarves reimagined more or less from myth & folklore. But once you throw in halflings, ugh.

Also, nonhuman races are fine in S&S-flavored fantasy, as long as we're talking beastmen and lizardmen.

What else not to like? Oh, Clerics. I hate clerics. The name, the concept. So non-priestly, in every way. While we're on the subject I also dislike the portrayal of fantasy polytheism as if it consisted of a collection of competing churches.

C.W.Richeson · February 23, 2007, 08:12:47 PM

Quote from: HinterWeltbeing different for difference sake.

Yeah, nothing sucks more than renaming elves and dwarves as something else. It just creates work for everyone.

I dislike pure vanilla fantasy. I want my fantasy game to do something interesting, have some sort of a twist, or otherwise give me a reason to play it over all the other fantasy games out there.

Akrasia · February 23, 2007, 08:18:45 PM

I hate D&D-style 'alignment' ('Lawful Good', etc., as cosmological forces) and clerics.

God I hate clerics. :hehe:

I'm also not a fan of 'halflings' for any setting other than Middle-earth (and even in ME they generally shouldn't be 'adventurers').

I also dislike settings in which magic that is 'earth shattering' in nature (i.e. D&D spells of levels 6+) exists, but somehow 1000s of mages and clerics throughout the setting know and use that magic and don't rule absolutely everything.

droog · February 23, 2007, 08:18:52 PM

Quote from: David RI may have phrased the question badly, but this is what I was trying to get at. Looking through the vanilla fantasy thread it seems to be, that the reason why most(?) fantasy games are successful is because they start from certain basic assumptions. I'm curious as to whether what folks dislike in their fantasy settings are the same basic assumptions about fantasy that makes fantasy games popular.

To a certain extent, yes. If I see a game that does nothing new, why shouldn't I just play D&D? And I stopped playing D&D twenty-something years ago, because in the end it just didn't do it for me.

I've long said that an author who starts out to write 'fantasy' is going to fall into more traps than an author who starts out with a story to tell that happens to be set in a fantasy world. Now, I think there are a few things that make FRPGs a bit different from fiction, but this is not one. I want some individual spark.

David R · February 23, 2007, 08:25:43 PM

Okay why the cleric hate ? Now the reason why I hate 'em is because they just seems to be another school of magic with a particluar dogma attached. But that's my hate...what's yours

Regards,
David R

Blackleaf · February 23, 2007, 08:31:13 PM

I don't hate Clerics... but they aren't much like Friar Tuck or Friar Lawrence.

Lee Short · February 23, 2007, 08:38:34 PM

Quote from: Elliot WilenWhat else not to like? Oh, Clerics. I hate clerics. The name, the concept. So non-priestly, in every way.

Me too. I loved Harnmaster priests. Not perfect, but a BIG improvement.

QuoteWhile we're on the subject I also dislike the portrayal of fantasy polytheism as if it consisted of a collection of competing churches.

Oh yeah.

I once ran a fantasy game where the biggest religious conflict was between those who was the pantheon as a collection of competing churches and those who saw the pantheon as a complementary whole.