I haven't delved deeply into 1E, but be aware that 2E and 3E have some yawping great character creation and combat mechanics problems, to the extent that as a group you really have to have a gentleman's agreement to either pretend they don't exist or else rewrite large chunks of the rules to get something sane.  If those are legacies held over from 1E, then they could cause problems with your game.

PL8 is a bit high for a truly Victorian supers game.  Unless they changed the scale dramatically between 1e and 2e, PL6-7 might be more appropriate.

Quote from: daniel_ream;725124I haven't delved deeply into 1E, but be aware that 2E and 3E have some yawping great character creation and combat mechanics problems, to the extent that as a group you really have to have a gentleman's agreement to either pretend they don't exist or else rewrite large chunks of the rules to get something sane.  If those are legacies held over from 1E, then they could cause problems with your game.

PL8 is a bit high for a truly Victorian supers game.  Unless they changed the scale dramatically between 1e and 2e, PL6-7 might be more appropriate.

As I understand things, while 2e and 3e are quite similar, one building upon the other, 1e is completely different. I don't think the PLs even map from one to the other two.

IMO 1e is the best edition if you like simplicity. It does contain more D20 legacy elements, such as Strength adding a bonus to hit in melee, but its the easiest to use. It is also much less effects based than 2e and 3e.

2e streamlined elements of 1e but also made it more complex and also moved to effects based powers, which some people find tricky to use. It has the most support for it.

3e continued 2e's trend. If you like what you see in 2e, then go 3e, unless the added support of 2e is something you value.

Here's my first stab at building my character, I need to save some points for skills (waiting for a ruling on whether we're going 2:1 or 3:1 with our shortened list), and I think I need to focus more on the core concept. Essentially that's a brick, someone who had an alchemical super-soldier serum equivalent (inspired partly by Dr Jekyll and partly by Mikakuru from Arrow) granting strength, endurance and regeneration.

QuoteAJAX, PL: 8, Identity: (Secret ID), Size: Medium.

INIT: +5, DEF: 20/20;   Base Speed  40/80/160;  

MELEE +13, RANGED +9, MENTAL +2.

SAVES: DMG +9, FORT +7, REF +5, WILL +6;  

ABILITIES: STR 20 (+8), DEX 20 (+5), CON 20 (+7), INT 14 (+2), WIS 14 (+2), CHA 14 (+2)

FEATS: Ambidexterity [ignores off-hand penalty (-4)], Durability (Super) [Lethal dmg < = to dmg save is stun], Endurance [+4 to endurance-related actions], Toughness [+2 to Damage Saves], Attack Focus [ +1 attack (unarmed)], Iron Will [+2 Will Saves], Attractive [ +3 bluff/diplomacy], Rapid Strike [Extra melee attack @ -2], Two-Weapon Fighting [2 weapon fighting penalty to -2, -6], Imp. 2 Weapon Fighting [2nd attack with off-hand weapon].

POWERS:
SUPER-CONSTITUTION [+2] [CHEMICAL], [None] [Personal] [Permanent] [save:N/A]
COMBAT SENSE [+5] [TRAINING], [None] [Personal] [Continuous] [save:N/A]
REGENERATION [+3] [CHEMICAL], [None] [Personal] [Permanent] [save:N/A]
SUPER-STRENGTH [+3] [CHEMICAL], extra: Leaping [+3]Power stunt: Lethal [None] [Personal] [Permanent] [save:N/A]
AMAZING SAVE (Will) [+2] [TRAINING], [None] [Personal] [Permanent] [save:N/A]
RUNNING [+2] [CHEMICAL], [Half] [Personal] [Sustained] [save:N/.

WEAKNESS: Addiction [mod] - Will save DC 15 or fatigued.

COST: abilities 42, combat 22, skills 0, feats 20, powers 42, weakness -10, total 116. "

Do I really need Combat Sense, rather than just trusting to being able to shrug off hits? Is he durable enough to be able to just take hits (since between Durable and a Damage Save of +9, he'll probably get stunned a lot)? Omitting Protection is intentional, I'd rather not close down the GM's options (or encourage him to ignore physical and go straight to mental attacks).

Can I actually have a BAB of +14 at PL8 (ie is BAB PL-capped)? That's what it is with unarmed attacks, theoretically.

Is my Defense high enough? Should I be putting those points from Combat Sense into his base a couple of points instead? Or is that another instance of encouraging attacks target elsewhere if it's too high?

He's an unarmed brawler, is two-weapon fighting a trap (since you need a full-attack action)? Am I over-investing in full-attack-requiring options (four Feats all told, including Rapid Strike)? Is +8 a big enough damage bonus at PL8, or should he really be using weapons? This might be my SWSE experience talking (the system seems similar in certain respects), is it hard to get full attacks, or will the foes come to me?

Rather than the Lethal Power Stunt for Super Strength, would I be better off with Strike (since each rank gives +1 damage as well as being Lethal)? Or can Strike not be used with multi-attacking?

I'm extremely conscious of the way hard-to-hurt bricks invite mind control. Is my Will Save high enough at +6? Or should I be looking at more ranks in Amazing Save (Will)?

His Weakness is actually Chemical Dependency - he needs a special tonic every week to bring his alchemical processes back into equilibrium or Bad Things start to happen. I'm considering adding Antagonist if the GM is open to more than one Weakness (which I'll put into skills).

Here's my current draft:

QuoteDaniel Warburton, PL: 8, Identity: Ajax, Age: 28, Gender: Male, Size: Medium.

INIT: +5, DEF: 21/16;   Base Speed  45/90/180, Leaping  15/30/60;  

MELEE +13, RANGED +5, MENTAL +2.

SAVES: DMG +13, FORT +8, REF +5, WILL +6;  

ABILITIES: STR 20 (+8), DEX 20 (+5), CON 20 (+8), INT 14 (+2), WIS 14 (+2), CHA 14 (+2)

SKILLS: Acrobatics +10, Athletics +11, Handle Animal +3, Intimidate +9, Knowledge (Current Affairs) +3, Notice +5, Profession (Law) +4, Sense Motive +3

FEATS: Ambidexterity, Attack Focus (unarmed), Attractive, Durability, Endurance, Iron Will, Power Attack, Takedown Attack, Toughness, Two-Weapon Fighting

POWERS:
ALCHEMICAL SERUM [+3] [CHEMICAL]:
Super Strength (Extras: Amazing Save (Dmg), Leaping)
Super Constitution
Regeneration
Running

AMAZING SAVE (WILL) [+2] [TRAINING]
STRIKE [+2] [TRAINING]

WEAKNESS: Chemical Dependency.

COST: abilities 42, combat 20, skills* 9, feats 20, powers 39, weakness -10, total 120.

*Consolidated skills list and 1PP=2 skill points

I'm wondering about whether I need to scrounge up 11 points to raise his main power to rank 4. I'd drop a level of Strike (2PP), lose a couple of skill points (on Athletics and Intimidate - net effect no change to those - 1PP), drop Intelligence to 12 (2PP), Drop Charisma to 12 (2PP), lose Attractive (2PP), then I still need 2PP from somewhere. But I wonder if that's all come at the cost of completely hollowing-out my concept.

Quote from: Skywalker;725144IMO 1e is the best edition if you like simplicity. It does contain more D20 legacy elements, such as Strength adding a bonus to hit in melee, but its the easiest to use. It is also much less effects based than 2e and 3e.

1st edition is a "d20 game" in every sense of the phrase (and I agree about the simplicity). Someone who has played D&D 3.X or Pathfinder would be able to figure it out in about two seconds. 2nd and 3rd editions definitely moved more towards a "traditional" sort of superhero game; 3rd reminds me of DC Heroes in more ways than one. Honestly, for the implied intent in the original post, a casual every-so-often game is the perfect scenario for using 1st edition.

Here's the reworked version:

QuoteAjax

INIT: +5, DEF: 21/16;   Base Speed  50/100/200, Leaping  20/40/80;

MELEE +13, RANGED +5, MENTAL +3. DAMAGE unarmed +9S, Strike +11L

SAVES: DMG +13, FORT +9, REF +5, WILL +7;

ABILITIES: STR 20 (+9), DEX 20 (+5), CON 20 (+9), INT 12 (+1), WIS 16 (+3), CHA 10 (0)

SKILLS: Acrobatics +10, Athletics +11, Handle Animal +1 (Ride +6), Intimidate +10, Knowledge (Current Affairs) +2, Notice +6, Profession (Law) +5, Sense Motive +4

FEATS: Ambidexterity, Durability, Endurance, Iron Will, Power Attack, Takedown Attack, Two-Weapon Fighting.

POWERS:
ALCHEMICAL SERUM [+4] [CHEMICAL]
Super Strength
Extra: Leaping
Extra: Amazing Save (Dmg)
Super Constitution
Regeneration
Running

AMAZING SAVE (WILL) [+2] [TRAINING],
STRIKE [+2] [TRAINING].

WEAKNESS: Chemical Dependency.

COST: abilities 38, combat 20, skills 8, feats 14, powers 50, weakness -10, total 120.

Quote from: Kiero;724136Are there any traps (often are with D20 games) we should be aware of? Any broken/exploitable things to be aware of?

I saved this from the old M&M 1E forum, which I don't think exists anymore. This is how to build a two-weapon fighter that attacks 10 times a round (which may or may not fit the above request, depending on who you ask.) Each line is a step in the process. Caveat: I never checked this for validity; I had moved on to 2E by then.

+15: Start with BAB +10, Dex 20 (using one weapon)
+13/+13: Add Two-Weapon Fighting, Ambidextrous (using 2 weapons)
+13/+13/+8: Add Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
+11/+11/+11/+6: Add Rapid Fire (one weapon), Multishot
+9/+9/+9/+9/+4: Add Rapid Shot
+5/+5/+5/+5/+5/+5/+0: Add Autofire (one weapon)
-1/-1/-1/-1/-1/-1/-1/-1/-1/-6: Add Autofire (both), Rapidfire (both)

Quote from: Blue Seraph;726761I saved this from the old M&M 1E forum, which I don't think exists anymore. This is how to build a two-weapon fighter that attacks 10 times a round (which may or may not fit the above request, depending on who you ask.) Each line is a step in the process. Caveat: I never checked this for validity; I had moved on to 2E by then.

+15: Start with BAB +10, Dex 20 (using one weapon)
+13/+13: Add Two-Weapon Fighting, Ambidextrous (using 2 weapons)
+13/+13/+8: Add Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
+11/+11/+11/+6: Add Rapid Fire (one weapon), Multishot
+9/+9/+9/+9/+4: Add Rapid Shot
+5/+5/+5/+5/+5/+5/+0: Add Autofire (one weapon)
-1/-1/-1/-1/-1/-1/-1/-1/-1/-6: Add Autofire (both), Rapidfire (both)

A ranged character really isn't what I had in mind. He's a two-fisted brawler; ultimately it came down to a choice between just Rapid Strike, or Ambidexterity and Two-Weapon Fighting.

I chose the latter because of the flexibility, being able to pick up weapons from time to time, and because I might get Improved Grappling, and thus be able to grab people one-handed with either hand (and thump them with the other).