Empathy as a stat, how would you feel if there was a mechanical value (word or number) for the Empathy of your character (how they connect to other people, how well the understand both good and bad things going on in others lives, and how well they react to it.)
See, I'm tempted to put one in something I'm working on, because reputation and contacts are important, but so is instant ability to put oneself into another's shoes and be able to respond favorably in some way (either guiding, or demanding responses from other characters due to that connection)
Since this is not solely about design, what about games with various virtue system (Humanity in Vampire, Sorta Conviction in True20), or those with Social driven stats and abilities?
Cyberpunk 2020 had an empathy stat which was used for some of the social skills, and was written to suggest that high empathy people made poor killers/adventurers....
But most people made it high so they could get lots of cyberware, as it went down as you plugged metal into the meat.
Generally the Vampire style Humanity thing just annoys me, and gets ignored whenever possible.
I like the idea. Different stats suggest a different approach to how PCs will deal with encounters. A game with empathy could play very differently from something like D&D. :)
Everyone seem so bugged on D&D. Why is that?
There is Sense Motive Skill (one of the most important roll in all my D&D campaign). It's the same as Empathy. A game without it is, in my sense, not a RPG but a Hack and Slash game (even then, who are you hacking? If you don,t know who your enemy are, you slash everyone?).
Empathy is vital in front of liar and treacherous character. Most, if not all, character wear a mask and you need to know what's under it.:rolleyes:
Sorry, I seem frustrated but it's just that I play Dragonlance and Planescape and it's a D&D game involving intrigue, romance and empathy...
I like D&D. I'm not bugged by it at all.
I think if you dropped the Strength ability score and replaced it with Empathy you'd have a very different kind of game though.
For D&D, shouldn't empathy just be considered a part of charisma?
I'd make empathy part of Wisdom is I was trying to fit it into one of D&D's 6 ability scores. A stereotypical politician might have high Charisma, but low empathy (Wisdom).
It would really depend on the kind of game though. I could see you making it part of either one, or adding another ability score if it was important enough.
Quote from: StuartI'd make empathy part of Wisdom is I was trying to fit it into one of D&D's 6 ability scores. A stereotypical politician might have high Charisma, but low empathy (Wisdom).
There are two aspect of empathy. One is understanding what other people are feeling and the other is caring about other people by putting yourself in their shoes. Plenty of politicians are expert at reading and manipulating others even if they don't really care about them. In fact, it's difficult to be a successful politician if you can't convince people you care about them (it's what Bill does naturally and Hillary struggles with), regardless of whether you actually care or not.
Yes, that's a good point. :)
I'd hate to see empathy trump race, class, religion, status and so forth. But if the game was set somewhere so small that there were no cliques, or so immense that they were moot then I'd like Empathy. The other exception would be if empaths in game are more empathic than in the real world.
Quote from: John MorrowThere are two aspect of empathy. One is understanding what other people are feeling and the other is caring about other people by putting yourself in their shoes.
I though the Skill Sense Motive (modified by Wisdom, naturally) made it. You won't care for other people if your not Good in alignment.
Why do you seek to recreate what's already there?:confused:
Well, I'm considering Empathy in a game, for a variety of purposes. 1) To allow the PC types to quickly establish rapport. 2) To be a start for their Reputations with at least one group. (Not all groups work on emotional connections) 3) To both positively and "negatively" influence aspect of emotion for their chosen outcomes. I'm talking about a "police" based game, and interacting with people on the street, plus also acting as negotiators to end riots, hostage situations etc.
So I was considering Empathy as a measure of this, and in general in games. As not a lot of games actually cover that aspect of play. They leave it social skills/traits (which are not entirely the same, but are connected)--since Empathy can be used in both ways as mentioned by another poster (Manipulation/communication, Rapport, that is both 'hey feel this way" and "I feel as you do..so ...")
The trouble with Empathy as a stat, is it is entirely possible to be extremely tuned in to how other people feel and to really understand their emotions, and yet not to give a shit.
Sociopaths do it, con men do it, to an extent successful salesmen do it. Being empathic can mean empathising with someone or could just mean understanding how others are feeling, and those two can lead to very different places.
If I have high empathy do I have to care? If I do how can I play a cynically charming rogue?
In a lot of games (D&D, Adventure!) it takes the form of a skill rather than an inherent attribute, and one can easily be a kind-hearted yet socially incompetant klutz, or an utter bastard who can read people like a menu.
The original question really cannot be answered without knowing a lot more about the premises and focus of the game in question, since the latter two have a very strong effect on what mechanics would or would not be useful.
For instance, Empathy as a mechanical attribute might be very much in place in a game about spiritual mediums who talk with the ghosts of the departed, etc.. It might serve similarly useful role in a rules-heavy mannerpunk game which wants to have detailed mechanics for social situations. In D&D, however, which is basically a combat game with some other things attached, it would be largely useless and superfluous.
The real question about Attribute or Skill for Empathy is more like "Are you born with it? Does it develop with age? (even if you are in cavern with no one to talk to?)".
So, I don't think it is possible. It's a skill because it takes training. An attribute like Wisdom or Perception should be also used. Everyone could understand how another feel if it's not really hidden behind a good comedy...
And in Dragonlance or Planescape (both D&D products), Sense Motive is the most useful skill (even more useful than any Base Attack bonus!)
SilCore basically breaks it out into two stats: Influence and Psyche. Influence is how good the character is at influencing people - how "well adjusted" they are externally. Psyche represents how "well adjusted" the character is internally. Now, that doesn't necessarily mean a person with a high Psyche score is "good". They can be a raging psychopath and if they're happy about it, they have a high Psyche score. If they're unhappy with being a raging psychopath, they have a low Psyche score. One thing I like about this setup is that it sidesteps the issue of "High empathy=shining and happy" and allows for a wider variety of combinations. For example, you can have the pop starlet that is the rage of the party scene (high Influence) but is a complete emotional wreck (low Psyche). Normally the high Influence score will allow her to keep the low Psyche under wraps but occasionally something will happen and the miserable internal landscape will shine through.
Quote from: SilverlionEmpathy as a stat, how would you feel if there was a mechanical value (word or number) for the Empathy of your character (how they connect to other people, how well the understand both good and bad things going on in others lives, and how well they react to it.)
This has been done in other games. Usually it ties in with "Charisma.
Quote from: SilverlionSee, I'm tempted to put one in something I'm working on, because reputation and contacts are important, but so is instant ability to put oneself into another's shoes and be able to respond favorably in some way (either guiding, or demanding responses from other characters due to that connection)
If they are really important, why don't you stat them out?
Rep,
Contacts, and
Manipulation?