Quote from: Alzrius;870906The problem with eroticism/sex in any RPGs, not just the OSR, is that most rewards that a character can attain are incentivized via the game rules, but sex is notably absent in this regard.

If you want a character to gain power, there's rules for acquiring XP (and gaining levels) that let you do that. If you want a character to gain riches and treasure, there are treasure tables and magic item lists that let you do that. If you want them to gain fame and influence, there's often (though not always) some sort of mechanics that let them do that (e.g. gaining a keep and followers once you reach name level).

In every case, this creates a meta-game reason for the player to have their character face danger and overcome obstacles. The reward is incentivized at the meta-game level, giving the player and their character reason to go after something.

Sex has no particular meta-reward mechanic, which creates a disconnect between what a character would likely want and what the player wants their character to do. It's one thing to cross the Mountains of Woe, fight the Demons of Despair, and brave the Fury of the Gods if you know you'll get that flaming holy avenger +6 at the end of it all. Now change that to getting to spend a night with Aphrodite, and unless that has some sort of stat bonus, then it suddenly seems a lot less worthwhile.

This isn't to say that players can't ignore the meta-reward and focus purely on the role-playing aspect, but that's far less easy to do when there's nothing for you to gain, out of character, by doing so.

There's also the issue that it can seem puerile in the extreme to incentivize sex (and of course there's issue with how you do so), but that's beside the point. Eroticism is an awkward fit for RPGs because it's a temptation that isn't really all that tempting.

That really hasn't been an issue in my games for the most part. Players take actions they feel their characters would because its part of why they're playing. If that includes romance and sex then it does. Also sex scenes cane be enjoyable and interesting and that's part of the reason we play: to have fun and generate an enjoyable, well, story for lack of a better term. I guess there is something of a meta reward sometimes. We like to give bonuses for exemplary role playing and characterization but just having sex doesn't automatically generate that.


But I don't think we're "old school" as I understand the definition.

I'll admit that all references to sex in my games have been terribly juvenile and generally played for dorky laughs, such as my barbarian who would have sex in front of the other PCs whenever at taverns and it became a running gag for when the NPCs came up to our table and got weirded out by it. Erotic? No. Dorky? Yes.

Quote from: Ravenswing;870801It's a source of enduring bemusement to me that gamers with no qualms about mass murder, graphic torture, human sacrifice, devil worship, thieving, piracy, assassination, genocide and just about every vice, crime and sin that's part of the mortal condition will -- almost uniquely -- consider depiction of eroticism to be Going Too Far.

I wonder if its a Western mentality thing.

Quote from: Spinachcat;870944I wonder if its a Western mentality thing.

As a Canadian on this board, I can safely say that it's mostly a U.S. thing.

Cannot speak for South America, but I know that up here it ain't all that.  We're more squicky towards out and out violence.

Quote from: Alzrius;870906Sex has no particular meta-reward mechanic, which creates a disconnect between what a character would likely want and what the player wants their character to do.

I'm glad you mentioned that. There are a lot of things that don't translate well due to the disconnect. Why should a PC ever eat anything but rations? It's not like the player gets to enjoy the fresher food. How about excruciating but otherwise non lethal pain?

And as you indicate, they can be role played out. However, I believe the "problem" is worse than the incentive problem you mention. For various reasons that would lead to a long post if I spelled them out, I believe role play without some mechanical effect is in most cases superficial.

Try this little experiment. The next time your PCs are trekking through grassy plains, indicate to one of them that his character was just out of the blue stung by a bee, and just leave it at that. And then contrast that with the same scenario, only at the end you add, "take 1 point of damage."

It's not that players aren't willing to role play in the first scenario. I bet most of them take to role playing being stung without any arm-twisting. But the second scenario, the reaction will be more intense.

Here's the good news. AD&D 1st Ed, I know, does provide some incentives to engage in sex. For one, as I already mentioned, the purpose of the harlot encounter is that it's actually an opportunity to gain information. The player has a reason to spend time with the whore. As does the character. Maybe their reasons are a little different, but the point is the decision is aligned. Action trumps intent.

Another one is a little line dropped in the DMG concerning aging and death by old age, that if it is made clear that death due to old age is final (no amount of wishes or resurrections will work), then it may incentivize players to see to the continuation of the family line as a way of achieving immortality.

So now PCs have reasons for monogamous sex and marriage as well as whoring and revelry. Add to that some sort of mechanics for offspring inheriting genetic traits in a dynastic campaign, and suddenly suitable mates can become more sought after than gold.

Quote from: Spinachcat;870944I wonder if its a Western mentality thing.

I blame the Puritans.

I'm against sex on the gaming table.

I keep falling off!

Quote from: Spinachcat;870944I wonder if its a Western mentality thing.

It's mostly an American thing.

Quote from: Nexus;870932That really hasn't been an issue in my games for the most part. Players take actions they feel their characters would because its part of why they're playing. If that includes romance and sex then it does.

That's more what I see (though we normally fade to black for sex scenes).

That said, players will do more of whatever is mechanically incentivised, and there's no particular reason not to award a Don Juan PC XP for sexual conquests if that fits the kind of game you want to run. I tend to give XP for 'goal achievement', with a goal being anything the player character seeks out that has some measure of challenge/difficulty in achievement. I'm sure I must have given Rey the lothario PC in my 5e Wilderlands game some XP for his seductions at times - I remember there were these three princesses... ....Just as I'd give XP for a diplomatic negotiation or a dungeon exploration.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;870981I'm against sex on the gaming table.

I keep falling off!

Put that in your book!
And is 2016 the year of your book?

Watching my friend stuff a Cheeto in his mouth while breathing heavily isn't why I'm at the table.

In those rare instances where the GM is a smokin-hot +10 super model and has invited all of her sorority sisters over for a game where I'm the only male, it's cool.

I like it in my game art.

Cheesecake/Beefcake for life!  REPRESENT!

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;870981I'm against sex on the gaming table.

I keep falling off!

And if people think stepping on a d4 is painful...

Quote from: Starkus;871084Watching my friend stuff a Cheeto in his mouth while breathing heavily isn't why I'm at the table.

In those rare instances where the GM is a smokin-hot +10 super model and has invited all of her sorority sisters over for a game where I'm the only male, it's cool.

I tend to have if anything less eroticism in the games with smoking hot female players (& my hot female GM hasn't had much of that stuff in her campaign).

This is the other fucked up part of the SJWs and Outrage brigades.

If you put a woman in an RPG illustration. Someone will scream "Sexist!" no matter what.

If you sensibly dont have any illustrations of women in the game then people can and will and have bitched that the game must not be for women to play as they arent represented.

You can not win. Ever.

I'm OK with it because I leave my sandbox campaigns open to player character goals. Also, depending on the enemy, sometimes the field of battle is the heart. (The naughty bits tend to get much scrutinizing attention, but the stage itself is the heart.)

Usually it's fade to black when it is going into NC-17, especially if gaming in public. But there are alternate XP rewards in 2e for quests and 'doing the work of your faith' and the like, so the mechanical incentive has always been present. That and I level up people glacially, so meaning is more derived from living out your character than worrying about leveling up its 'powahs!'

Eroticism is just another facet of play and I really don't mind. Since I run my setting societies in a manner where violence is usually abhorred and sex is more welcome for stability and settling of powerful strangers, similar to the peacetime lulls in our own world, it is not a stranger to my games. Wandering bands of theft and violence without remunerative opportunities to contain would quickly be quashed as a communal threat in my settings, as they usually were on Earth.

I've already had fun with Birthright's bloodline rules. There's interesting competing incentives to fostering bastards, both internally and externally. Set up your legacy? Set up your own glory, blackmail, dynasty, or ruin?  My NPCs are not all stupid and passive...