Haffrung earlier made a list of criteria for good dungeons.

Quote from: Haffrung;794663If a DM aspires to design a kick-ass dungeon, he should consider the following:

• The origins and construction of the dungeon.
• The culture and purpose of the creators.
• The overall tone and feel of the dungeon, or of the zones that make up the dungeon.
• Some dramatic and memorable physical features that make sense in the context of the above.
• The main avenues of travel in the dungeon.
• Any major barriers between levels or zones.
• Tactically challenging maps and layouts.
• Persistent magical and environmental effects.
• The current factions occupying the dungeon and their relationships to each other.
• The goals, schemes, and resources of the various factions, and how they conflict.
• The leaders of the factions, their lieutenants and lackeys.
• Scope for alliances and intrigue.
• Coherent placement of monsters and challenges in relation to one another.
• Important discoveries (locations, items, secrets) and the motivations to find them.
• Sources of information (rumours, NPCs to bribe or coerce, allies) about locations and factions.
• Fabled treasures and powerful arcane items.
• Quests and goals involving progressive disclosure of clues, hints, maps, and keys.

And it goes without saying that all of the above is best presented in a fantastic and vivid fashion, rich with menacing or weird atmosphere.

Assuming most, some or any of these are good criteria, what dungeons do you think meet these criteria?  What sticks out as really great dungeons, either classic or modern for any game system?

Just to add to that, here's an article about one particular technical aspect of dungeon design that I always found insight- and useful.

The shrine and crypts in Death Frost Doom meets the above criteria, I think.

The origins and construction of the dungeon. - Created by the Duvan'Ku, filled with both cultists and their victims.

The culture and purpose of the creators. - We get a good sense of just how fucked up and depraved the Duvan'Ku were throughout, as well as a feel for their rituals and religious customs.

The overall tone and feel of the dungeon, or of the zones that make up the dungeon. - Unbelievably ominous, weird, and cold...

Some dramatic and memorable physical features that make sense in the context of the above. - Many, from the Bottomless Well (a sacrificial chute) to the petrified cabin on the surface to the Screaming Hall, and more.
 
The main avenues of travel in the dungeon. - Clearly mapped, although since the dungeon is mostly uninhabited unless things go badly wrong, little travel occurs. We're given a good picture of what the avenues would be if the place is "reactivated."
 
Any major barriers between levels or zones. - The trapdoor from the cabin, the Bronze Doors to the shrine and within it, and, of course, the singing plant...

Tactically challenging maps and layouts. - Interesting layout that's both logical for a crypt and tactically challenging if things go badly (the PCs could get trapped very easily).

Persistent magical and environmental effects. - The entire crux of the adventure hinges on such a persistent effect, the plant-thing's weird song.

The current factions occupying the dungeon and their relationships to each other. - We've got the dead Duvan'Ku, their dead victims, and Zeke.

The goals, schemes, and resources of the various factions, and how they conflict. - Zeke wants the dead honoured, Cyris and the Duvan'Ku want to return to the surface. The sacrifice victims want to be blessed so they can reach the afterlife.

The leaders of the factions, their lieutenants and lackeys. - Zeke and Cyris Maximus, vampiric General Overlord of the Duvan'Ku.

Scope for alliances and intrigue. - Major scope when bartering with Cyris.

Coherent placement of monsters and challenges in relation to one another. - Everything is laid out according to the twisted logic of the Duvan'Ku, so much so that the dungeon is almost minimalist in its placement of monsters.

Important discoveries (locations, items, secrets) and the motivations to find them. - Lots of them, from secret doors to the plant-thing's secret to various items throughout the crypts.

Sources of information (rumours, NPCs to bribe or coerce, allies) about locations and factions. - Zeke fulfills this role, as does the book of Offerings to Duvan'Ku and several other objects.

Fabled treasures and powerful arcane items. - Many, such as the Ring of Vanishing, Grimoire of Walking Flesh, the Book of Unspeakable Shame, etc.

Quests and goals involving progressive disclosure of clues, hints, maps, and keys. - The dungeon thrives on excruciatingly slow build-up and the gradual disclosure of the atrocities commited on the mountain.

And it goes without saying that all of the above is best presented in a fantastic and vivid fashion, rich with menacing or weird atmosphere. - Brilliantly weird and insanely oppressive atmosphere.

Quote from: CRKrueger;794703The origins and construction of the dungeon.
The culture and purpose of the creators.

I have a confession to make; I sometimes skip these two. Now that's not to say that the dungeon is utterly nonsensical, and I will put in details that imply the dungeon might have some mysterious purpose, but I prefer to leave the mystery forever unresolved. I think a lot of players unconsciously like that vibe too, but if they push for answers I just start incorporating more alien and otherworldly details as red herrings.

Dark Tower
Caverns of Thracia

Some of the factions and agendas have to be inferred, but otherwise they're the models for the kind of dungeon I outlined. It all starts from how/why it was built, and by whom.

DFD and Grinding Gear both have most of those criteria.

I think Tombs of Gersidi from the old Palladium Fantasy fits those too. I've never actually played through it though, just read it in the hope of someday running it.

Most of the published dungeons I've read for AD&D either seem too small and barren or overwhelmingly large and nonsensical to me. I dream about running Tomb of Horrors using LotFP someday, though.

My dungeon delving experience is quite limited, but I want to know about good dungeons to expand my knowledge.

B-01 In Search of the Unknown. Theres a rather nice bit of history behind Quasqueton and as you explore you come across various things that tie into that background.

DA-1 Adventures in Blackmoor has a pretty good history of the Comeback Inn and its temporal iterations is a neet touch.

DA-2 Temple of the Frog is another locale with a fair amount of history and reasoning for being there.

Quote from: CRKrueger;794703Haffrung earlier made a list of criteria for good dungeons.

Assuming most, some or any of these are good criteria, what dungeons do you think meet these criteria?  What sticks out as really great dungeons, either classic or modern for any game system?

The Halls of Tizune Thane (Best of White Dwarf Scenarios I) which I just finished running today. Some other Albie Fiore dungeons. Sinister Secret of Saltmarsh. Caverns of Thracia to a lesser extent, but British stuff in the '70s-'80s tended to be a long long way ahead of US-origin dungeons.  Tizun Thane is just ridiculously well detailed and cohesive.

Quote from: Shipyard Locked;794719I have a confession to make; I sometimes skip these two. Now that's not to say that the dungeon is utterly nonsensical, and I will put in details that imply the dungeon might have some mysterious purpose, but I prefer to leave the mystery forever unresolved. I think a lot of players unconsciously like that vibe too, but if they push for answers I just start incorporating more alien and otherworldly details as red herrings.

A lot of it is how well it's played, too much regimentation and it wouldn't exist. None do, or ever have in the real world, historically; but the trope is still fun to play out.

Well, the real world lacks key components of dungeons - monsters and magic.

There certainly are no shortage of crazy buildings or underground tunnels. There's that whole "urban exploration" thing where people find lost places.

Anyway, I'd say a good dungeon has a history, not a story. And it's non-linear. And I think ultimately it has to be fair. The DM can screw over players at will, so making a dungeon build around a central premise of screwing players is not good.

Tomb of Horrors for instance, is an attempt at a killer dungeon. But it's fair. OTOH, I'd say pretty much every LoFP is not fair, basically just a screw you to players (and most are linear).

Quote from: JeremyRTomb of Horrors for instance, is an attempt at a killer dungeon. But it's fair. OTOH, I'd say pretty much every LoFP is not fair, basically just a screw you to players (and most are linear).

This is an interesting point. Certainly LoFP are known for negadungeons... and Death Frost Doom has the potential for a (kind of awesome) "screw you" to the players. On the other hand, if played carefully and conservatively, players can come away from that dungeon with astonishing quantities of treasure with almost no personal risk. The dungeon has rooms that yield 4d6 gold per turn of searching with a 10% chance of a d10/25gp gem, and absolutely no traps or monsters... you could fill up wagons of treasure and never draw your sword. There's certainly the potential for a collosal "oh my god we're fuuuuucked" moment, but arguably that's kind of fun, and there's a clear mechanism to prevent what looks like a TPK - albeit a mechanism that relies on some very careful roleplaying. Is it "unfair"? I wouldn't say so; I'd say, rather, that it's sort of above the question of fairness. The dungeon is either pitiably easy or overwhelmingly difficult depending entirely on the actions of the players. I don't think it's a good model for every dungeon out there, but I do think it's a good dungeon in and of itself.

All the LotFP modules I've read have been 'fair'... and only one I've seen (The Tower) is 'no win' situation... unless you just walk away... but even that one is 'fair', the clues are there... the situation inherently suspicious from the start.

Barrowmaze worked well for my players.  And they're not all that into mega-dungeons.