DC20 by the Dungeon Coach.



It is a fantasy game, with these features.

1.  Four attributes.  Strength, Agility, Intelligence, and Charisma. 
2.  Any of the four attributes can be your primary attribute, and helps you do your class's main thing.  If you want to be a Charismatic Fighter, go for it.  You just RP that your fighter is good at shit-talking and making the other guy flub their attacks, or drop their defenses so you can hit them back.
3.  Damage is fixed by weapon type (it isn't a roll), but you do more damage by beating the enemy defense number.  Roll super high to hit, you will do more damage.
4.  Fighting type characters have stamina points to power their super moves.  Not a lot, though, like 1-5, starting with 1.
5.  Magic users use Mana points, not spell slots.  You can even pump more mana into a spell to make it do more (so will beating the target number by a lot, just like a fighter's sword attack).
6.  You get 4 action points per round.  If you spam the same move, each one gets disadvantage.  AKA, your 4th attack in a row means you roll 4D20, take the lowest result.
7.  Combo moves with other players is a common thing, and can be done when it is NOT your turn.  Want to boost your buddy's attack by launching him in a leap off of your shield?  Do it.  It costs you one of your action 4 action points.
8.  When you level up you can take abilities from any of the other classes rather than just stick to your own.  This is how you customize your characters.  I think it does cost you more to do so.

Overall DC20 has been described as a halfway point between 5E and Pathfinder 2E.

It sounds good to me, and has been popping up in my YouTube feed a lot lately.  I like what I see.

I think 5E is needlessly complex and everything I've heard about this one is that it's even more so.

Quote from: Ruprecht on June 13, 2024, 07:51:10 PMI think 5E is needlessly complex and everything I've heard about this one is that it's even more so.

Greetings!

*Laughing* Yeah, Ruprecht, I agree. After playing RPG's for decades now--I used to *love* complex, highly-detailed, fiddly systems. I loved Rolemaster, and also 3E D&D.

However, as I've mentioned in the past, oftentimes the deeper, harder problems of such systems don't really become visible until characters are 8th, 10th, 12th level, or higher. After wrestling with various such issues, I have reached a place, if you will, where I really appreciate simpler, quick, and brutal systems. I like having room in the engine to periodically *add* some widget of my own--but the foundation of the system is simple, quick, and brutal. That is why I gravitated to Shadowdark. Early 5E started out on the right foot, but increasingly became a mess.

So, yeah. DC 20 just seems like a new game system that is leaning *more* into complexity, and fiddly details. I'm not interested.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

It's populating my youtube and blog feeds with hyperbolic statements about how it's a "5th Edition Killer" which means it's probably total hog-swill

Interesting.

I am also drawn more to Rules Lite games than 300+ page/phonebook sized rulebooks that have the classic meme of, "We have a rule for that."

I didn't want to color anyone's approach to how they respond.  If you like it, say so and why.  If you don't like it, say so and why.

Personally, I like the idea of DC20 game.  It has a lot of features that I like.

But, will I buy it?

Right now, probably not. 

First, I don't know anybody who would want to play it. 

Second, when I do TTRPG with people in person, it HAS to be a rules lite game so I can teach it to them on the spot.  It is one of the reasons why the Tiny-D6 series is one of my favorites at the moment.  The same rules can be used to play multiple genres, and are easy to teach to even kids.  With one caveat.  The Tiny-D6 fantasy game is their worst game, and the only one I recommend that people NOT get.  Pocket Fantasy is a better Rules Lite RPG for the fantasy genre.

Third, I don't need another fantasy game. I've literally have over a dozen I like and would play, and probably 50 that I just own PDF's of so I can read about it so I can talk to other people who like it.

But, like I said, I like the idea of DC20 because it does have a list of great features.  If it turns out to be a massive page count, then I'll pass no matter what.

I like having strength be good for fighters and intelligence be good for casters. 

I like having 6 stats that means if I want to give my player broach of wisdom, its +2 to wisdom not +2 to wisdom and +2 to intelligence which how the stats being combined works in DC20.  I can give my players more stats based loots and not have to worry as much on unintended consequences

Doing 1 for damage as base and increasing damage is probably OK, but its giving me the feeling that weapons are going to be very samey.  Sure they will put in reach and maybe even a critical hit modifier.  But having to rely on how well you roll for how high of damage and a three would be high damage, not my cup of tea.  I do understand they are simplifying maths, but for those of us using VTT's oh my fucking god the feeling you get when you crit as a half orc barbarian and you see all those little damage dice go a flying and you get a 63 feels better than rolling a 4, wow a 4 for damage.

I'm liking Castles and Crusades personally from a good enough category for everything.  I'm using 5E now, but it does wear on one over time as the DM having to do all the damn rulings.  I personally look at RPGS as:

D&D Basic: OSR

AD&D: DCC, C&C

3E+: 5E, Pathfinder

I think $65 is more than I want to pay for a Player's Handbook that I am not going to get for a full year.

Also, I am kind of done paying for digital content that isn't optimized for its target platform.

This is one of the best videos I've come across regarding the whole "D&D killer" thing. The video not only addresses DC20, but also Shadowdark. The Dungeon Coach also left a comment.

Quote from: Rhymer88 on June 14, 2024, 02:34:45 AMThis is one of the best videos I've come across regarding the whole "D&D killer" thing. The video not only addresses DC20, but also Shadowdark.

Yeah, I think everything in this video is probably correct. The Shadowdark comparison seems apt in terms of the market situation driving DC20's success, and the World of Warcraft comparison is probably bang-on as regards the "D&D killer" trope. I was playing WoW back in its prime, and I remember every new MMO starting the same conversation.

I might look more at DC20 later, but based on Weirdguy's summary, you can add me to the "not interested" list. Usually the phrase "action points" is a bad sign in a TRPG, and it generally seems like the design is taking a lot of influence from computer RPGs. Might be a good game, but that kind of design approach tends to produce a game in which "system mastery" becomes key to the player's success. Honestly I just don't have the time and energy these days to go pouring through a rulebook trying to work out what the optimal build paths and uses of action economy are. I don't even like that shit in videogames anymore.

Optimally, you shouldn't even need to know the rules of a tabletop RPG to make good choices. I prefer a game where you can just do whatever makes sense for your character in the game world, and the rules will have your back.

I've also come to prefer rules lite. We don't need statistics for chickens and housecats that, due to how damage works, can kill grown men in combat.

Let me get it all out of the way so we can close the thread:

1. There's nothing new in this game
2. This isn't an OSR type product
3. This is just homebrew rules tacked onto B/X
4. This is for 5E players, that's not OSR
5. Books are too expensive, you can do the same thing with B/X for free
6. This is just a hack for another system to which I already have a dozen for that do the same thing
7. The Author is X therefore not buying it.
8. There's no support for this product long term, dead in a year.
9. This isn't compatible with B/X, why do i need to buy another rulebook system and learn it?
10. I hate everything that isn't B/X
11. It's being shilled by X,Y,Z on youtube and social media, these are just paid for reviews/friends of the author/part of Group Z


I think that covers all the bases that will come up here. Let me know if I missed any.

Nah, hard pass. Yet another D&D game sort of like 5E doesn't impress me. 4 stats is moronic.

Quote from: THE_Leopold on June 14, 2024, 10:06:10 AMLet me get it all out of the way so we can close the thread:

1. There's nothing new in this game
2. This isn't an OSR type product
3. This is just homebrew rules tacked onto B/X
4. This is for 5E players, that's not OSR
5. Books are too expensive, you can do the same thing with B/X for free
6. This is just a hack for another system to which I already have a dozen for that do the same thing
7. The Author is X therefore not buying it.
8. There's no support for this product long term, dead in a year.
9. This isn't compatible with B/X, why do i need to buy another rulebook system and learn it?
10. I hate everything that isn't B/X
11. It's being shilled by X,Y,Z on youtube and social media, these are just paid for reviews/friends of the author/part of Group Z


I think that covers all the bases that will come up here. Let me know if I missed any.

Greetings!

Absolutely funny, and totally true, brother!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

I got turned off by the carnival barker style promotion by the Dungeon Coach for the project.  A little bit of humility goes a long way and he really hasn't shown any in the months that I was subscribed to his channel after the OGL debacle (until very recently when I unsubscribed).   He'd for example go on about how his new idea of using any stat for defense was such a revolutionary concept that would redefine how things are done only to drop the turd a few months later with a short mention that using constitution equivalent for dodging was not working out but his new superduper awesome totally rad idea was to use dex equivalent to make you harder to hit instead!  OMG, why didn't anyone think of that before!?!?   Genius!

THE_Leopold nailed it.

+10

I think #5 is usually my top pick.  I am old and therefore dont get why rpg books need endless pages of artwork, which only serve to increase the cost of the rules set.   

simple b/w art should suffice, if it doesnt you have a problem.