Quote from: ggroy;455937Just like watching live high speed car chases on television, or tv shows like COPS.  

Embarrassingly, yes.

Quote from: BenoistI can relate with that in the way I burned out on the culture surrounding 3rd edition which basically 4e's now mirrors in a "volume turned up to 11" kind of way with too many folks on the intarwebz.

Yeah. Amongst some 3e and 4e fans, there's a fetishism of "arena combat game mechanic balance", between the various classes, while ignoring other aspects of the game. I'm not too fond of that, and I try to avoid it, as that attitude ignores other aspects of play. I'll say that attitude became more intense, and really turned me off when 4e was announced, making the various web forae much less hospitable than before. I'm hoping places like rpgnet and ENWorld have calmed down. Haven't done more than skim those places lately, so I wouldn't know...

Quote from: BenoistWhere I differ is that for me it created a reverse effect than what you're describing: I've come to appreciate more than ever the discussion of stuff with people whom I know I agree with on the big picture. I like the K&K Alehouse precisely because of that: I know I share the basic premise of a love for the Gygaxian game, and from there we can discuss all sorts of things that sharpen my awareness about this or that aspect of the game, with this or that point of view which I may or may not agree with.

I'm tired of discussing stuff with people who are just waiting for me to trip, who disagree with me so fundamentally that we might just be discussing about two different hobbies. I'm dropping more and more discussions like this. I put people, threads, etc on my ignore lists. I just don't want to give a shit about these sorts of things anymore, and yet I fail my saving throws regularly. I'm getting better at it with time, though.

I don't really hate K&K Alehouse, and I probably have more of a "love/hate" relationship with the place....though the hate is starting to wear off. Even though I like Gygax's works, the more rabid aspects of Gygaxian grognardism are beginning to ebb, and that's just fine with me.

Quote from: thedungeondelver;455828The day you can come back to me and say you've written for editions you don't like, played editions you don't like (at length)

Been there. Done that. Have not gained any sympathy for your hypocritical antics and ad hominems.

Antics & Ad Hominems: The Edition War Game

Quote from: Benoist;455994LOL

So far I'm enjoying the hell out of Game of Thrones.

In brutal honesty, nothing beneficial.

However, the attitude of "I'm better than you are because I play Game X" has always gotten under my skin.

Quote from: CRKrueger;456055So far I'm enjoying the hell out of Game of Thrones.

It's fulfilling all the hopes I had about it. I enjoyed the first book tremendously and burned out on the sequels when I realized there was no point to the story going on and on. When I heard it was going to be an HBO series, I thought that the story might actually be a lot better on a screen, as opposed to a page. And it is. It's stunning, the cast is awesome, the feel is great... I love it.

There's nothing interesting to be gotten from them.

Watching people become absolute retards over such a thing can be amusing, though.

What do I get out of it?

Well, that once in a while, it really matters.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;456095What do I get out of it?

Well, that once in a while, it really matters.

RPGPundit

I completely disagree with this. You have yet to show one instance of this ed wars achieving something.

Quote from: thedungeondelver;455829Edition War.

Back in 2001/2002, there was a bonafide pit-fight forum at dragonsfoot.org.

Ahhh... back in the good old days when DF was still entertaining.  The really funny thing is that the whiny pussies who complained the most about the EW forum on DF were the ones who eventually left the board eventually to form the even more hardcore AD&D boards.  Pandering to the extremists never helps your party.

Quote from: mhensley;456104Ahhh... back in the good old days when DF was still entertaining.  The really funny thing is that the whiny pussies who complained the most about the EW forum on DF were the ones who eventually left the board eventually to form the even more hardcore AD&D boards.  Pandering to the extremists never helps your party.

DF always (and wrongly) pitched itself as an "old school" forum.  I think DF did itself a disservice by trying to be a big-tent place.  Moreover, there was a time when saying "by the book" in the 1e forum would cause a dogpile.  "Well, I give xp for treasure by the book" followed by a parade of posts about how that was wrong, about how it should just be done to (other editions) standards, and so on.

I came - and stayed for a long stretch - to DF because there was a period when it was at least appearing to try to live up to the notion of "the home of 1e on the net".  Of course, in a "DF anniversary" thread it was just flat laid out that no, the founder(s) weren't really 1e guys at all but saying "the home of 1e" drew in a larger userbase.  You can call people who don't want to get hassled (constantly) for discussing one thing "whiny pussies" as you like.  I see people like you as having been the real problem.

Quote from: RPGPundit;456095What do I get out of it?

Well, that once in a while, it really matters.

RPGPundit

Do you even have a dog in an edition wars fight, though?  I mean as far as I can tell you're all about Amber, your own clone game and other stuff.  I mean hey if you like and play D&D more power to you!  I read your (very good) discussion on Gary on his passing and so on, so I'm not branding you as an alien or anything.  Also I do know there's more games than D&D, it just seems that it's the only one that has "edition wars" of the scope and scale (okay, WoD versus nWoD, but...)

Quote from: Imperator;456101I completely disagree with this. You have yet to show one instance of this ed wars achieving something.

Oh, pshaw. An edition war could matter even if it achieves nothing.

But for the record, lots gets achieved.  For starters, you find out where everyone stands, who is in the right, and who's a fucking idiot.  You get to see who has half a brain in their head, and can string a decent argument; and in turn, who the ridiculous little bitches are who don't actually know the first thing about rhetorical discourse.  

You may sometimes even get people to grow stronger in their views, making them more determined.

Those are all good things.

RPGPundit

Quote from: thedungeondelver;456134Do you even have a dog in an edition wars fight, though?  I mean as far as I can tell you're all about Amber, your own clone game and other stuff.  I mean hey if you like and play D&D more power to you!  I read your (very good) discussion on Gary on his passing and so on, so I'm not branding you as an alien or anything.  Also I do know there's more games than D&D, it just seems that it's the only one that has "edition wars" of the scope and scale (okay, WoD versus nWoD, but...)

I do have a dog, in just about any edition war fight: the future direction of the hobby.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;456136I do have a dog, in just about any edition war fight: the future direction of the hobby.

RPGPundit

Fair enough!

Quote from: Imperator;456101I completely disagree with this. You have yet to show one instance of this ed wars achieving something.

Not my personal favourite by a long shot, but:

Taa taaaa!! Edition wars gave us 'Essentials'.

Venomous dislike of the 'new' core races? Check.
Vitriol over 'every class plays the same'? Check.
'Not enough flavour to accompany the mechanics'? Check.
'Martial dailys are dissociated mechanics'? Check.

These are the things which drew the most vitriol, the most hate. Mearls names every one of these, as points he wanted to address in Essentials. The interview ends with an outspoken olive branch to those disillusioned with 4E. Boy have they come a long way since they thought they could simply dump on edition warriors

You really think that the 4E design team would have back paddled on so many of their key design stances if on- and offline reception of 4E had been anything short of vehemently divisive?