Confirmation that it's very difficult for people to agree to disagree reasonably, and epic amusement at people who truly believe their opinions are Commandants carved in stone from on high.

Quote from: LordVreeg;455882I rarely get involved with wars over editions.  I tailk about certain mechanics and what these mechanics are best used for, and the type of game they create.
I play two rulesets, and I wrote both of them; different editions are merely different rulesets for me.

You are a wiser man than I. Even though I usually avoid directly participating in "edition war" threads, I can't seem to stop myself from reading them. I'd probably save myself unnecessary headaches if I refrained from reading such threads entirely. Oh, well. I guess I just love a good train wreck.

Quote from: thedungeondelverEdition War.

Back in 2001/2002, there was a bonafide pit-fight forum at dragonsfoot.org.

I remember that time. I was much more easily frustrated by online antics back then, and those wars helped repel me away from AD&D for many years. I'm embarrassed that I actually let that shit get under my skin.

And for the record, I don't hate you, dungeondelver....or Axemental, or the other "uber-grognards" at all, and sometimes, I even strongly sympathize with your points of view, but there have been times when you guys could get absolutely rabid, in any thread that had signs of becoming an edition war...and that kind of thing made me feel discouraged from participating in the 1e community at large. So I usually just kept silent. I'd also stress that I'm not totally alone, as I've received a few PMs over the years from folks who felt the same way I did. Some of us just like multiple editions of the game that hold the D&D trademark. We don't usually argue as loudly, but we're out there.

In any case, the grogs have mellowed out quite a bit over the years, so the point is probably moot by now. Time does that, I suppose...

Quote from: Sacrificial Lamb;455917You are a wiser man than I. Even though I usually avoid directly participating in "edition war" threads, I can't seem to stop myself from reading them. I'd probably save myself unnecessary headaches if I refrained from reading such threads entirely. Oh, well. I guess I just love a good train wreck.



I remember that time. I was much more easily frustrated by online antics back then, and those wars helped repel me away from AD&D for many years. I'm embarrassed that I actually let that shit get under my skin.

And for the record, I don't hate you, dungeondelver....or Axemental, or the other "uber-grognards" at all, and sometimes, I even strongly sympathize with your points of view, but there have been times when you guys could get absolutely rabid, in any thread that had signs of becoming an edition war...and that kind of thing made me feel discouraged from participating in the 1e community at large. So I usually just kept silent. I'd also stress that I'm not totally alone, as I've received a few PMs over the years from folks who felt the same way I did. Some of us just like multiple editions of the game that hold the D&D trademark. We don't usually argue as loudly, but we're out there.

In any case, the grogs have mellowed out quite a bit over the years, so the point is probably moot by now. Time does that, I suppose...

Hell I don't hate anyone over this nonsense.  I think some people are ill informed and walk around proud of their ignorance and use it like a weapon to try and achieve some kind of intellectual* high ground, though.  That irritates me, more than it should.  I think there is an actual tiny segment of people who have a personal dislike of Gary or [insert person here] that borders on the pathological and that bugs me (again, more than it should).

Aaaaand just FYI?  It's a two-way street, y'know.  It always has been.  The first time I noticed it was in...good lord, 1990?  1991?  On Usenet and it was the tired old "1e sucks, gygax sucks, 2e is where it's at".  That's where I, myself, saw it first.  So, I would say, the 3e fans and 2e fans have finally mellowed out (for the most part: there's been notable exceptions right in this very thread where I thought it just wouldn't come up - how meta!) and stopped giving a damn that some people actually play and enjoy AD&DNe.  Saying "you guys have finally mellowed out" works both ways.


...
*as intellectual as RPGs can get, or as discussion of RPGs can get, which isn't very at all.  AT.  ALL.

Quote from: Sacrificial Lamb;455917You are a wiser man than I. Even though I usually avoid directly participating in "edition war" threads, I can't seem to stop myself from reading them. I'd probably save myself unnecessary headaches if I refrained from reading such threads entirely. Oh, well. I guess I just love a good train wreck.

Just like watching live high speed car chases on television, or tv shows like COPS.  

I actually couldn't care about Edition Wars, but both misinformation and One-Wayism piss me off...and I do enjoy vitriol a bit too much.

In real life too. I don't ever type something online that I won't say in person. That is a hard core rule for me.  I am a caustic motherfucker but I am usually laughing and joking so that context is lost in a text forum.  

I am sure if showed me a typed out conversation between me and some of my best friends it would be shocking.  

I guess its also "allegiance to a game" which I find so deserving of ridicule. I love WFRP 1e and I'm kinda meh on 2e, but I would never tell a 2e fan that his Warhammer is actually Limp Dickhammer compared to my Rock Cockhammer of 1e.

The big joke is that while I pummel grogtards online, I write for Knockspell.  I just sent in an article on Random Orc generation and I am working on more stuff for S&W. I actually know some of the people I pummel on Dragonsfoot for their petulant One-Wayism and we play together in my OD&D events at conventions.

Some of them are great gamers. Probably like some of you douche-bags!

It's almost creepy to imagine that in real life, some of us could actually become real friends. Fortunately, we will never meet so we can keep pissing on each other.

Quote from: Tetsubo;455883So, what did I get out of that edition war? Stress and anger. Neither of which I wanted or needed.

As the 4e Tyrant of Fun, I drink your pain as sweet nectar.

Aaah, the delicious pain of Tetsubo!!!

Nothing if it's just people throwing tired memes and nerd-rage at eachother.

Sometimes a few insightful individuals will post something worth thinking about.

Quote from: Peregrin;455945Sometimes a few insightful individuals will post something worth thinking about.

Almost like finding a needle in a haystack?

Quote from: Sacrificial Lamb;455847I've "evolved" a little bit, in that I try not to let people on the Internet poison my love of a game now. That still doesn't change the fact that when I'm a fan of a game, I want to be part of that game's community, yet much of the 1e community makes that very difficult. I'd visit sites like Dragonsfoot, Knights 'n Knaves, and whatnot....and would loathe the echo chambers that preside there. It's frustrating. I'm still a 1e fan, so people from those sites speak a language I understand, but I hate narrow-minded, suffocating zealotry masquerading as "moral authority" in the hobby of Dungeons & Dragons. That shit gets old and tired.

I can relate with that in the way I burned out on the culture surrounding 3rd edition which basically 4e's now mirrors in a "volume turned up to 11" kind of way with too many folks on the intarwebz.

Where I differ is that for me it created a reverse effect than what you're describing: I've come to appreciate more than ever the discussion of stuff with people whom I know I agree with on the big picture. I like the K&K Alehouse precisely because of that: I know I share the basic premise of a love for the Gygaxian game, and from there we can discuss all sorts of things that sharpen my awareness about this or that aspect of the game, with this or that point of view which I may or may not agree with.

I'm tired of discussing stuff with people who are just waiting for me to trip, who disagree with me so fundamentally that we might just be discussing about two different hobbies. I'm dropping more and more discussions like this. I put people, threads, etc on my ignore lists. I just don't want to give a shit about these sorts of things anymore, and yet I fail my saving throws regularly. I'm getting better at it with time, though.

Quote from: Benoist;455955I can relate with that in the way I burned out on the culture surrounding 3rd edition which basically 4e's now mirrors in a "volume turned up to 11" kind of way with too many folks on the intarwebz.

...

I'm tired of discussing stuff with people who are just waiting for me to trip, who disagree with me so fundamentally that we might just be discussing about two different hobbies. I'm dropping more and more discussions like this. I put people, threads, etc on my ignore lists. I just don't want to give a shit about these sorts of things anymore, and yet I fail my saving throws regularly. I'm getting better at it with time, though.

I came to this realization back in the mid-late 1990's.

In the offline case, I just got sick and tired of the "one-upmanship" which was common practice in my career at the time.  In the online case, this was when the "AOL crowd" completely infested usenet at the time.  By then, usenet wasn't much different than my workplace.

For most of the early-mid 2000's, I didn't bother posting much on usenet, message boards, blogs, comments sections, etc ...

Quote from: ggroy;455960I just got sick and tired of the "one-upmanship"

Good way to put it. That's exactly what I'm talking about.

Quote from: Benoist;455955I'm tired of discussing stuff with people who are just waiting for me to trip, who disagree with me so fundamentally that we might just be discussing about two different hobbies. I'm dropping more and more discussions like this. I put people, threads, etc on my ignore lists. I just don't want to give a shit about these sorts of things anymore, and yet I fail my saving throws regularly. I'm getting better at it with time, though.

I think some people are just always itching for a fight regardless of the subject. I don't mind someone asking me what I think about a particular edition of D&D, but when they immediately scorch me for my response I get pretty frustrated. I expect this on the net, but now it seems like I encounter it more and more at the gaming table.

Quote from: Benoist;455962Good way to put it. That's exactly what I'm talking about.

A similar sentiment would be "the battles are so fierce, largely because there is very little at stake in the end".

Basically in my previous job in those days, it was like a bunch of guys trying to "one-up one another" in arguing "how many angels can dance on the head of a pin".

What do you get out of complaining about "edition war"?

If you don't like it, then you can just stay out of it.

I don't see where people get off trying to dictate to other people that lies have to get a blank check, which is what the "high-minded" baloney in practice comes down to.

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;455963I think some people are just always itching for a fight regardless of the subject.

Of course.

There's individuals who are like this offline too.

When I was a teenager, I remember some guys in the neighborhood who were always looking for any excuse to beat up another person.  Even something small like another person bumping into one of these guys by mistake on the bus, they would use it as an excuse to punch this other person in the face, or kicking the person in the gut.

Quote from: Phillip;455985What do you get out of complaining about "edition war"?

LOL