Quote from: Elfdart;459314At this point, busting the balls of Weigel, thedungeondouchebag, TFoster and other grogtards would really just be piling on. For me it's never been about favoring one edition over another, but in heckling idiots, miscreants and bullshitters who think someone died and made them keepers of the True First Edition Way, which (a) does not exist and more importantly (b) never did exist. Getting a chuckle out of the orgy of nerd rage that ensues when you point out their stupidity is an added bonus to being right.

I'm sorry, but you are...?  And I give two shits about your opinion because...?

Sure, sure.  You are too cool for old school, or whatever keeps you smug and happy.  Perhaps you didn't notice it while you were busy patting yourself on the back, but the hallmark of a dyed-in-the-wool True Wayist is the absolutist denials of other preferences for play.  You know, stuff like "...which (a) does not exist and more importantly (b) never did exist."

In other words, when you are done masturbating over how cool you think you are, could you kindly shut the fuck up?  I would appreciate it, and I am sure there are a number of other folks around here that would also.

Quote from: StormBringer;459394I'm sorry, but you are...?

Scroll up and you can see my name.

QuoteAnd I give two shits about your opinion because...?

Because you went to the trouble of responding to what I wrote.

QuoteSure, sure.  You are too cool for old school, or whatever keeps you smug and happy.

I see reading plain English isn't really your strong suit. I've said repeatedly that I prefer the older editions. So either you need a remedial reading class or you're just a dishonest little asshole.

QuotePerhaps you didn't notice it while you were busy patting yourself on the back, but the hallmark of a dyed-in-the-wool True Wayist is the absolutist denials of other preferences for play.  You know, stuff like "...which (a) does not exist and more importantly (b) never did exist."

Feel free to show where pure, unaltered 1E AD&D was ever actually played. Gygax never did it, nor did the others at TSR. They either omitted "official" rules or added new ones -as well as unofficial ones. The only people pretending to follow the Holy Writ word for word are the grogtards, and like other fundies, they are full of shit.

QuoteIn other words, when you are done masturbating over how cool you think you are, could you kindly shut the fuck up? I would appreciate it, and I am sure there are a number of other folks around here that would also.

Someone's got sand in his pussy. Awww, what's wrong, does your pussy hurt?

Elfdart, are you converting all the clerics in your campaign to the new, WotC-official rules?  :huhsign:

I wonder what "non-fundamental" product is so important that its such a worry to this guy.

Elfdart how can anybody give a crap about your emphasis on "good" in late TSR when there isn't anything that calls for such faithfulness? There is no "edition war" except in your own mind. There are fans of one thing and fans of another and some who use it all.

Quote from: David Johansen;459229No, the problem is that we didn't get a united front for old school play we got a fragmented range of uncompatible solutions that fit to very small niches.  The root of the problem is that Troll Lord games rode the designer's personal hobby horses to town instead of trying to broaden their appeal.  If C&C had been a better design the OSR would be a foot note.

I doubt a better designed C&C would have made the impact you suggest because the initial core of the OSR wanted to play the older edition as they were not something that feels like them.

Once somebody figured how to create a retro-clone out of the d20 SRD the rest of it followed.

Quote from: David Johansen;459229People here are constantly saying OSR games need better support and we need more modules and settings and less new games but since every OSR game is someone's own house rules, play styles, and hobby horses (mine included) we just get more and more OSR games with no support.

Looking on Lulu and RPGNow there more adventures and supplements being released than rulesets. The data doesn't support the perception.

But because of the freedom of the Open Gaming License it is easier for a dedicated individual to put out their own ruleset. So it happens more with the OSR than other RPG niches.

Quote from: David Johansen;459229In an infinitely fracteous hobby where the only way any concensus is reached is when a company does a top down product with expensive hard backs and graphic design because a non-gamer in a suit threw a wrestling hold on everyone and told them how it was going to be done, bitterness isn't so surprising from where I sit.

I rather have the glorious mess that is the OSR than the reverse. My sales been steadily expanding although they still in the hundreds per year range. From what I know of other people sales the OSR market is a slow steady ramp up.

Quote from: Gene Weigel;458780T
Theres so many but they all are alterations and the "alterers" act like its theirs exclusively.

So your contention is that nobody who labels themselves as part of the OSR does original work in the fantasy genre?

I'll admit that many people want many different things.  I'll freely admit that my own perspective is significantly warped by my desire to see WotC die a horrible death.  So I would see an OSR juggernaut that outsold 4e and Pathfinder as a good thing.

Castles and Crusades failed to be a return to the old school style while similtaneously failing to be a lite and streamlined modern game.  Some love it and some can't stand it.  I wish I could love it but can't stand it in practice.

Had it been an attempt at a very clean and tight system I'd have loved it and we'd still have had the OSR because I'm not exactly the majority of D&D players.  But I still wonder if it had just been a cleaned up AD&D 1.5 whether we'd have OSRIC and the second edition clone I can't recall the name of.

Quote from: estar;459453So your contention is that nobody who labels themselves as part of the OSR does original work in the fantasy genre?

I thought the whole point was trying to be derivative? I mean, the more someone does something new, the less it's old school. Right?

Quote from: Gene Weigel;459439There are fans of one thing and fans of another and some who use it all.

Hey, something that makes sense!

Quote from: JDCorley;459477I thought the whole point was trying to be derivative? I mean, the more someone does something new, the less it's old school. Right?

I believe you are thinking of the Bogeyman.

Quote from: Cole;459478I believe you are thinking of the Bogeyman.

So they aren't trying to emulate or produce the feel of stuff people did/wrote in the past? How come they call themselves Old School then? I mean, I read the Primer and a bunch of material people wrote, it seemed a lot like early D&D stuff, to the degree I know anything about it. Were they not trying to do something like early D&D stuff?

Quote from: JDCorley;459480So they aren't trying to emulate or produce the feel of stuff people did/wrote in the past? How come they call themselves Old School then? I mean, I read the Primer and a bunch of material people wrote, it seemed a lot like early D&D stuff, to the degree I know anything about it. Were they not trying to do something like early D&D stuff?

Do you actually assume the necessary goal is always to be the most old schoolest possible at all costs, or is this just more trolling?

I believe the idea is to build on the early D&D stuff, not to imitate it. both have been done; I'm more interested in the former.

Quote from: Cole;459486Do you actually assume the necessary goal is always to be the most old schoolest possible at all costs, or is this just more trolling?

That's not what I said, as I said I thought the goal was to do stuff connected to and like early versions of D&D, not to be new and innovative.  "At all costs", who said that?

Quote from: Aos;459487I believe the idea is to build on the early D&D stuff, not to imitate it. both have been done; I'm more interested in the former.

So if someone did a supplement that used a power pool or effect-building magic like Mage instead of Vancian casting, or a narration-passing game that used some early D&D mechanics but did not use a GM, that would be Old School enough for the OSR?  Cool, that's not how I understood it, but okay.

Quote from: JDCorley;459492So if someone did a supplement that used a power pool or effect-building magic like Mage instead of Vancian casting, or a narration-passing game that used some early D&D mechanics but did not use a GM, that would be Old School enough for the OSR?  Cool, that's not how I understood it, but okay.

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