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They spend some on wine, some on women, some on gambling and they waste the rest.

Ale and whores.
what are you a noob?

Quote from: thedungeondelver;1031139Would it break 5e to reintroduce separate XP tables, modeled on AD&D, and then XP-for-gold-and-magic-items?

Just a simple yes/no will do, I'm not trying to start an edition war.

Yes for the XP tables.

Explanation:
The XP tables originally varied because the system assumed that each character had a 'tier' of value.  The Wizard started the slowest, because they were deemed the most powerful, thus had to be slower than the Thief or Fighter.  5th edition gets rid of that conceit.

No for the XP via Gold and Magic Items.  It won't break it, but you'll render most of the non-magic casting classes as pointless, especially the Fighter, whose sole point of existence is combat.

But that's something that's always confused me about having a Fighter in a game that rewarded stealth, cunning and magic instead of strength of arms (plural because most humans have two.)  What's the point of beating things up, when it gets you nothing, but bypassing everything to get at the loot, the real way to gain experience and levels, gets you everything?

Am I honestly missing something here?  Sincere question.  I believe I am.

Another vote for ale and blowjobs.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;1031301What's the point of beating things up, when it gets you nothing, but bypassing everything to get at the loot, the real way to gain experience and levels, gets you everything?

Am I honestly missing something here?  Sincere question.  I believe I am.

I would say that the answer is this, and it is deeper and more well explained in AD&D than in OD&D, but there's a performance curve the DM should grade the characters on and adjust XP accordingly and in the description of considering good play it mentions fighters fighting, spell-casters spell-casting, thieves thieving, clerics serving their deity and so on and conversely bad play is fighters skulking in back and not contributing - you get the idea.

I think it is not so much "Why does it reward fighting when bypassing is the way to go" is that sometimes there is no "bypass" and during those times the fighter best be up front and bringing it.  When you're all sneaking around the huge, ancient red dragon's lair and someone does an uh-oh and wakes it up, and you have got to throw down, no ifs nor ands nor buts, that's where we truly consider what the fighter does.  Is he cowering on the floor under his shield yelling NOT IN THE FACE, NOT IN THE FACE! or is he up there getting ready to show off his Dirk the Daring impression?

Quote from: Certified;1031171Uh, clearly hookers and ale.

I was going to suggest wine, women and song . . . But really the music is optional.

gp is a resource for creative players to manipulate the game world in increasingly profound ways. Dull players can't think beyond how to get another +1 to AC, and that's too bad for them.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;1031301Am I honestly missing something here?  Sincere question.  I believe I am.

You're missing that PCs manage to actually pull it off about one time in 100.

And the first time you get surprised by a giant lizard or something, you'll be really glad you have those fighters along.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;1031301But that's something that's always confused me about having a Fighter in a game that rewarded stealth, cunning and magic instead of strength of arms (plural because most humans have two.)  What's the point of beating things up, when it gets you nothing, but bypassing everything to get at the loot, the real way to gain experience and levels, gets you everything?

Am I honestly missing something here?  Sincere question.  I believe I am.

"Why does a thief carry a weapon when he's breaking into a house in the middle of the night when not waking anybody up gets him the most rewards?"

Quote from: thedungeondelver;1031139Would it break 5e to reintroduce separate XP tables, modeled on AD&D, and then XP-for-gold-and-magic-items?

Just a simple yes/no will do, I'm not trying to start an edition war.

Probably wouldnt. Probably. But only if you used the A or 2e EXP numbers. Otherwise No. Adding gold for exp into 5e without adjusting everything else will end up with the PCs advancing even faster.

A simple fix without resorting to the older numbers is to just multiply all the 5e EXP level requirements by 10. This is because 5es EXP curve is a sort of average of A & 2es divided by 10.

Id suggest doing some test runs first to see how it goes.

Quote from: Omega;1031362Id suggest doing some test runs first to see how it goes.

I run old school (mostly BX) adventures in 5e, with XP for gold at 1:1 and the standard 5e XP table. I started off giving 1/5 standard monster XP but found that was not enough. I went over to 1/2 standard monster XP and that seems to work well. PCs still advance quickly to 3rd level, as 5e intends; after that it's typically about 4 sessions to 4th and 5 or 6 to 5th.

Quote from: fearsomepirate;1031332"Why does a thief carry a weapon when he's breaking into a house in the middle of the night when not waking anybody up gets him the most rewards?"

That's also a question I ask.  Because if you're caught and you have a weapon?  You're killed on sight, usually, because they assume you're intent is murder.  If you don't, and are caught, they carry you off to prison, because all you planned is theft.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;1031369That's also a question I ask.  Because if you're caught and you have a weapon?  You're killed on sight, usually, because they assume you're intent is murder.  If you don't, and are caught, they carry you off to prison, because all you planned is theft.

There's clearly no advantage to killing the groggy guy in the bathrobe with the baseball bat, which is why it never happens. Nope. Burglars never use weapons to defend themselves from armed homeowners, or to kill witnesses and escape prison.

The concept of "bringing some muscle in case things go south" is easy for common criminals to understand, and they tend not to be the brightest bunch. Since you have admitted to being completely incapable of comprehending why this idea exists at all, it's pretty clear you'll need to learn by experience, not by thinking. I suggest trying to play through Keep on the Borderlands where nobody in your party has weapons, armor, or offensive magic. See how it goes.

Quote from: Omega;1031362Probably wouldnt. Probably. But only if you used the A or 2e EXP numbers. Otherwise No. Adding gold for exp into 5e without adjusting everything else will end up with the PCs advancing even faster.

A simple fix without resorting to the older numbers is to just multiply all the 5e EXP level requirements by 10. This is because 5es EXP curve is a sort of average of A & 2es divided by 10.

Id suggest doing some test runs first to see how it goes.

Were I doing this, I'd take the opportunity to switch to a campaign run using the silver standard instead of gold.  Use the XP tables as is.  Award XP for gold.  Provide treasure opportunities using the same numbers in the rules, but downgrade all gold values to silver, silver to copper, etc.  (Maybe copper to "iron bits" or something.)  

Sure, it's more work to always effectively divide the treasure value by 10, than doing it once for the XP table, but I've always wanted to run a D&D game on the silver standard.  Might as well make it work for me while doing that.