What D&D deserves credit for.

Nicephorus · September 28, 2006, 02:30:25 PM

Quote from: BagpussShame GDWs house system was actually (Ability score + skill ranks)*difficulty modifier, roll D20 under.

Was it? It's been so long I don't remember. Maybe I'm thinking of MegaTraveller. But I think Traveller was the first to have a few ability scores and a bunch of skills that improve linearly. But their system was heavily weighted towards the ability score.

Bagpuss · September 28, 2006, 02:32:20 PM

Quote from: McrowD&D does what it does well, but there are always games out there that do one aspect of what D&D does better. Some do mupltiple things better.

Unfortunately they usually then go on to then screw up the other bits.

Settembrini · September 28, 2006, 02:33:49 PM

Classic Traveller had skill scores, which had a non-standardized attribute bonus. Later they introduced the task system with standardized attribute bonus, which was used for MegaTraveller.

Imperator · September 28, 2006, 02:34:16 PM

Quote from: BagpussWhat more mechanics do you need to input your desires, motivations and personality into the game?

You personality, desires and motivations are expressed via speech and action (all covered by the game), or internalised; just like in life.

So, you're admitting that D&D has not any mechanic to do that, while other "less evolved" games have them. Point taken.

Imperator · September 28, 2006, 02:35:07 PM

Quote from: Settembrini
That's not how RPGs work, don't you know? The "peripheral" stuff is essential to the experience.

Absolutely false.

Abyssal Maw · September 28, 2006, 02:35:30 PM

Quote from: Mcrow*in my gospel voice*

can I get an amen!:D

A statement like that would lead me to believe that you have not played many games other thatn D&D. I could be wrong.

Ironically (or perhaps not):

Why is it that many people who spend a lot of time dissing D&D have never played it or perhaps only played it once or twice? They even brag about it.

Mcrow · September 28, 2006, 02:36:35 PM

Quote from: SettembriniYou are, let not get into a pissing match, but I've played a lot and still try out new stuff regularly, including thematic games. I'm not even a D&D fan. But I see reality and not emotion and rumours.

fair enough

QuoteHave you played D&D recently?

yes, in the last year I have played campaigns for AD&D, 2nd ED, and 3.5. Most recently 3.5. While the games were enjoyable, I have no dilusions that D&D is "THE BEST GAME EVA! ROXXXOSX!" as so many like to proclaim. You can argue that it is the best supported RPG productline and win. You could argue that their books look the nicest and win. You can argue (with me) that the game itself is the best and I'll have something to say about it. There is no doubt that D&D is the Flagship RPG (because most everyone know what D&D is) , the design is good, and the game is fun. Is it the best game? Not to everyone. In fact there are a fair number of people purposely play other games than D&D cuz they don't like it.

Imperator · September 28, 2006, 02:37:23 PM

Quote from: Abyssal MawIronically (or perhaps not):

Why is it that many people who spend a lot of time dissing D&D have never played it or perhaps only played it once or twice? They even brag about it.

I don't know. I've been playing it (OD&D, AD&D 1 and 2, and 3.0) since 1985.

But I also think that it's not the best thing out there.

Bagpuss · September 28, 2006, 02:37:27 PM

Quote from: NicephorusWas it? It's been so long I don't remember. Maybe I'm thinking of MegaTraveller. But I think Traveller was the first to have a few ability scores and a bunch of skills that improve linearly. But their system was heavily weighted towards the ability score.

I'm refering to GDW final house system that was used for MERC, last version of Twilight 2000, Dark Conspiracy and Traveller:TNE. Actually Dark Conspiracy was odd in that it started with a D10 system rolled under only the skill level or the attribute (if no skill applied), then it got updated to the D20 system rolling under the attribute+skill (which considering attributes were generally higher than skills, favoured good attributes). The assest (attribute+skill) was modified by the difficulty level so Easy x4, Average was x2, Difficult x1, Formidable x0.5, Impossible x0.25.

Still my favourite thing about GDW system is the career path character generation.

Settembrini · September 28, 2006, 02:39:59 PM

QuoteIs it the best game? Not to everyone. In fact there are a fair number of people purposely play other games than D&D cuz they don't like it.

My point was not D&D is teh roxorZ!
I made quite a specific point. And I think it is true.

Mcrow · September 28, 2006, 02:41:01 PM

Quote from: Abyssal MawIronically (or perhaps not):

Why is it that many people who spend a lot of time dissing D&D have never played it or perhaps only played it once or twice? They even brag about it.

Yeah, good one.

I have played D&D 3.0 & V3.5 since they came out. In fact I had a stretch of a few years where I did no gaming, but I saw the new D&D books in the store and picked them up. D&D 3.0 is what got me back into gaming. Now, I prefer to play other games than D&D, but I will not turn down playing with a group if they only play D&D. As I have stated I think D&D is fun (its a decent RPG), I just prefer other games.

ColonelHardisson · September 28, 2006, 02:43:27 PM

Quote from: McrowYou can argue (with me) that the game itself is the best and I'll have something to say about it. There is no doubt that D&D is the Flagship RPG (because most everyone know what D&D is) , the design is good, and the game is fun. Is it the best game? Not to everyone. In fact there are a fair number of people purposely play other games than D&D cuz they don't like it.

Yeah, but that's not the thread topic. I went back and looked, and the bashing began in this thread against D&D, not against another RPG. This place is seeming more and more like "RPG.net in Exile" with all the anti-D&D threadcrapping. I mean, really, all the "less evolved" and "neanderthal" comments are trite and boring. Why not at least try to keep to the thread topic without making backhanded swipes? And no, I'm not singling out the person I quoted specifically.

Mcrow · September 28, 2006, 02:43:31 PM

Quote from: SettembriniMy point was not D&D is teh roxorZ!
I made quite a specific point. And I think it is true.

well then, in that case maybe we agree more than not.:shrug:

Mcrow · September 28, 2006, 02:45:36 PM

Quote from: ColonelHardissonYeah, but that's not the thread topic. I went back and looked, and the bashing began in this thread against D&D, not against another RPG. This place is seeming more and more like "RPG.net in Exile" with all the anti-D&D threadcrapping. I mean, really, all the "less evolved" and "neanderthal" comments are trite and boring. Why not at least try to keep to the thread topic without making backhanded swipes? And no, I'm not singling out the person I quoted specifically.

True.

yeah, I don't like the D&D bashing either.

Caesar Slaad · September 28, 2006, 02:45:40 PM

Quote from: NicephorusWas it? It's been so long I don't remember. Maybe I'm thinking of MegaTraveller.

No, you're right:

CT: 2d6 + mods + possible situational modifiers>= difficulty

where mods where usually: skill ranks (usually in the 1-5 ranges, and most commonly only 1 or 2) +2 if arbitrary attribute exceeds arbitrary ranks. But it varried.

MT: 2d6 + (skill or att mod) + (skill or att mod) + possible situational modifiers. att mod was standardized, +1 per 5 points or fraction. (I consider this under-weighting attributes, but later editions of traveller over-weighted attributes.)