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What causes the resistance, to d100 % Dice adoption throughout RPGs?

Started by Man at Arms, August 09, 2024, 05:38:41 PM

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Eric Diaz

#30
August 11, 2024, 02:10:06 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 10, 2024, 02:19:54 AMWhat does 0+00 read like?

Ask that on some social media and you'll get ONE reason, people who have been playing for years don't know how to read the d%

Most people (99%?) would say 00 means 100.

I agree, but I think there are good reasons to use 00 as a critical hit if you're doing "doubles are critical hits/misses", an idea I really like.
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Hixanthrope

#31
August 11, 2024, 02:18:06 PM
Quote from: Eric Diaz on August 11, 2024, 02:08:11 PM"forgets" which dice is the tens...
the lighter colored die is the ones. "light is low"
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Man at Arms

#32
August 11, 2024, 02:29:57 PM
Quote from: Theory of Games on August 10, 2024, 12:26:41 PM1% chance of rolling a 100 on 1d100. 5% chance of rolling a 20 on 1d20. Plus d100 always roll off the table  and then ya gotta find em.




Good point.  The d20 Crits, 5% of the time.  That's enough to keep d100 from ever overtaking d20, in the popular market. 

But you can also play d100, any way you want to.  What some people call granularity, is really just more options.  D100 could be dead simple, or quite complex.

Ratman_tf

#33
August 11, 2024, 04:29:19 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 10, 2024, 02:19:54 AMWhat does 0+00 read like?

Ask that on some social media and you'll get ONE reason, people who have been playing for years don't know how to read the d%

What a coinkydink. This came up in the 5Parsecs reddit today.

https://www.reddit.com/r/5Parsecs/comments/1eph5tv/tables_for_d100_should_be_099/
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Eric Diaz

#34
August 11, 2024, 05:23:04 PM
BTW, one reason 00 must mean 100 is that otherwise you wouldn't roll for 99% chance, and 3% would actually be 4% (01, 02, 03 and 00), etc.
Chaos Factory Books  - Dark fantasy RPGs and more!

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Steven Mitchell

#35
August 11, 2024, 07:28:56 PM
Quote from: Eric Diaz on August 11, 2024, 05:23:04 PMBTW, one reason 00 must mean 100 is that otherwise you wouldn't roll for 99% chance, and 3% would actually be 4% (01, 02, 03 and 00), etc.

That's if you do "Roll your percentage or lower" as the mechanic.  The other way is a strict "Roll under your percentage", treating 00 as 0.  Both ways line up that your percentage skill is your actual chance.  The main benefit of the latter is if you want to treat double as special (instead of calculating a fraction of the percentage), as it means 00 is always a special success and 99 is always a special failure, with the specials fairly distributed based on your skill.

I started a design that worked the latter way.  That part worked very well.  I abandoned it for other reasons (primarily related to the way modifiers work in percentage roll under systems, always a little extra handling time no matter how you do them).

Eric Diaz

#36
August 11, 2024, 08:56:02 PM
Quote from: Steven Mitchell on August 11, 2024, 07:28:56 PM
Quote from: Eric Diaz on August 11, 2024, 05:23:04 PMBTW, one reason 00 must mean 100 is that otherwise you wouldn't roll for 99% chance, and 3% would actually be 4% (01, 02, 03 and 00), etc.

That's if you do "Roll your percentage or lower" as the mechanic.  The other way is a strict "Roll under your percentage", treating 00 as 0.  Both ways line up that your percentage skill is your actual chance.  The main benefit of the latter is if you want to treat double as special (instead of calculating a fraction of the percentage), as it means 00 is always a special success and 99 is always a special failure, with the specials fairly distributed based on your skill.

I started a design that worked the latter way.  That part worked very well.  I abandoned it for other reasons (primarily related to the way modifiers work in percentage roll under systems, always a little extra handling time no matter how you do them).

Ah yes, good point. Makes perfect sense although most people are used to "if you hit the exact number, you succeed".

I love treating doubles as special, it has several advantages: 10% of the results are special, but if you are really good you might have 9% specially good results and 1% specially bad.
Chaos Factory Books  - Dark fantasy RPGs and more!

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Steven Mitchell

#37
August 11, 2024, 10:08:38 PM
Quote from: Eric Diaz on August 11, 2024, 08:56:02 PMI love treating doubles as special, it has several advantages: 10% of the results are special, but if you are really good you might have 9% specially good results and 1% specially bad.

Yep, instant pattern recognition by even slow players, with elegant scaling as the modifiers move, and pays for having that second dice on every roll with something besides the binary success/failure.  For a two dice mechanic with specials, can't beat the handling time.

HappyDaze

#38
August 11, 2024, 10:37:29 PM
Quote from: Eric Diaz on August 11, 2024, 08:56:02 PM
Quote from: Steven Mitchell on August 11, 2024, 07:28:56 PM
Quote from: Eric Diaz on August 11, 2024, 05:23:04 PMBTW, one reason 00 must mean 100 is that otherwise you wouldn't roll for 99% chance, and 3% would actually be 4% (01, 02, 03 and 00), etc.

That's if you do "Roll your percentage or lower" as the mechanic.  The other way is a strict "Roll under your percentage", treating 00 as 0.  Both ways line up that your percentage skill is your actual chance.  The main benefit of the latter is if you want to treat double as special (instead of calculating a fraction of the percentage), as it means 00 is always a special success and 99 is always a special failure, with the specials fairly distributed based on your skill.

I started a design that worked the latter way.  That part worked very well.  I abandoned it for other reasons (primarily related to the way modifiers work in percentage roll under systems, always a little extra handling time no matter how you do them).

Ah yes, good point. Makes perfect sense although most people are used to "if you hit the exact number, you succeed".

I love treating doubles as special, it has several advantages: 10% of the results are special, but if you are really good you might have 9% specially good results and 1% specially bad.
This is the Eclipse Phase 2e approach, although it uses "blackjack" resolution (you want to roll as high as possible without exceeding (or was it equaling?) your modified skill rating, and doubles were criticals.

JohnDiggity

#39
August 11, 2024, 11:27:32 PM
I just don't really see any advantage to D100 over D20 for the vast majority of people tbh

jhkim

#40
August 12, 2024, 12:28:32 AM
Quote from: Steven Mitchell on August 11, 2024, 07:28:56 PM
Quote from: Eric Diaz on August 11, 2024, 05:23:04 PMBTW, one reason 00 must mean 100 is that otherwise you wouldn't roll for 99% chance, and 3% would actually be 4% (01, 02, 03 and 00), etc.

That's if you do "Roll your percentage or lower" as the mechanic.  The other way is a strict "Roll under your percentage", treating 00 as 0.  Both ways line up that your percentage skill is your actual chance.  The main benefit of the latter is if you want to treat double as special (instead of calculating a fraction of the percentage), as it means 00 is always a special success and 99 is always a special failure, with the specials fairly distributed based on your skill.

That works. You could also keep "00" as one hundred, and treat any "0" on the ones die as meaning special success (i.e. 10, 20, 30, 40... instead of 00, 11, 22, 33, etc.).

One of the HarnMaster editions had special results for any "0" or "5" on the ones die.

David Johansen

#41
August 12, 2024, 12:45:19 AM
Quote from: JohnDiggity on August 11, 2024, 11:27:32 PMI just don't really see any advantage to D100 over D20 for the vast majority of people tbh

Fewer ties.
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yosemitemike

#42
August 12, 2024, 01:01:55 AM
Quote from: jeff37923 on August 10, 2024, 11:28:57 AMSometimes that extra granularity slows down actual play. Which do you find faster? D6, d20, or d100 roll mechanics?

I haven't found that the type of die used, by itself, has any noticeable effect on the speed of play.  What slows down play is systems that require the players to read the dice in odd ways and/or to read multiple dice and interpret the results. 
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Lynn

#43
August 12, 2024, 01:27:14 AM
I believe Unknown Armies (early versions at least) used d100 and, doubles (11, 22, 33, etc) below Skill level were critical hits, whereas doubles over Skill level were critical fails.

It wouldn't surprise me if the first and largest to market paradigm (d20) had the most impact simply because of that.

I wasn't into Runequest when it appeared, but I played and ran CoC from what it was first available. Players were less keen about starting with low % skills (and many started quite low in CoC) as the assumption was that if you failed the roll, the result was always a functional fail. In D&D, most of the early thief skills that used % were low, and players didn't relish the consequences of those rolls.
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Slipshot762

#44
August 12, 2024, 04:47:29 AM
It works well enough in the old marvel game, and i like it in the war machine rules in becmi. It seems kinda binary pass fail though in most implementations i've heard people suggest, whereas outcome ranges like "failed, passed, passed good, blew it out the water piss on the fire call in the dogs and do not swap the labels on the butt-plug ball-gag combo because its over chief" is preferable.
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