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What are the 4e fanboys saying now?

Started by 1989, January 21, 2011, 09:25:50 PM

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Aos

I was in the lgs last night for my periodic dose of looking and not buying anything. Anyway, the LGS has a new space*, and they serve diner style food now. The Encounters DM (it got rolling again yesterday I think) was wandering around and actively recruiting players for his game. He got at least one dude while I was there. Overhearing two socially awkward nerds navigate their first conversation together was painful and made me cherish my crippling shyness. However, I suspect that the program is good at bringin new people into 4e, if not into the hobby itself.

*It is actually more or less hidden at this point. The sign on the door of the old place gave an address but no directions. The problem is the place is in defunct minimall which is hidden inside of a stripmall, which is set about 200 yards from the street- it's actually closer to the next street over. I used a GPS, and still had to wander around in a back ally looking for an entrance- I almost gave up. Usually these guys seem to have their shit together, but this was a prime example of what I have come to expect from comic/game shop owners.  I must have said "you have got to be fucking kidding me," to myself about six times as I was looking for the place- Especially once i found myself in the ghost mall.
You are posting in a troll thread.

Metal Earth

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Doom

Quote from: Benoist;439336Bullshit. Your argument boils down to "hirelings and henchmen are meant for level 9" which... is just downright stupid.

You obviously don't know what the fuck you are talking about.

Actually, it boils down to the last 2 sentences. Not something about hirelings and henchmen.  Before getting into the vulgarities, let's just focus on one question:

Do you, or do you not, believe that characters normally walked around with 10 spearmen (or something similar)?  Nothing more, nothing less. Don't wander elsewhere...just that one thing.
(taken during hurricane winds)

A nice education blog.

Shazbot79

Quote from: Aos;439345I was in the lgs last night for my periodic dose of looking and not buying anything. Anyway, the LGS has a new space*, and they serve diner style food now.

I've got this beat.

My local game store just got a liquor license.

Still have to brave a gauntlet of crackheads in the industrial district to get there though : (
Your superior intellect is no match for our primitive weapons!

Drohem

:rotfl:  

How absolutely lame, Doom.

Benoist

#649
Quote from: Doom;439351Do you, or do you not, believe that characters normally walked around with 10 spearmen (or something similar)?  Nothing more, nothing less. Don't wander elsewhere...just that one thing.
I don't know about "normally." What's "normally?" How people played? People played the game in vastly different ways, some of which were using henchmen and hirelings at low levels, others not. Most people didn't read the books from cover to cover. It's already an established consensus.

Now, is that possible according to the rules books themselves? Totally. If each PC spends some money on one or two spearmen (a spearman is an expert hireling, mercenary soldier > footman, pikeman, hired for a cost of 3 Gold Pieces per month, DMG p. 29), and you have more than five characters in a party (which is the basic assumption of the game and the modules, by the way - B2 is for six to nine characters, B4 is for 6 to 10 characters, and so on), you could end up with a strike force to venture forth at low levels, no problem. Whether that's a good strategy is another question entirely, that will depend on the circumstances of the adventure itself and how the players strategize from there. But is it possible? Absolutely!

StormBringer

Quote from: Doom;439334Damn, you KNOW it's bleeding obvious if Frank can answer it briefly.
No shit.

At least it will be entertaining for a while.  :)
If you read the above post, you owe me $20 for tutoring fees

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StormBringer

Quote from: Benoist;439359Now, is that possible according to the rules books themselves? Totally.
Benoist, you know full well that isn't what was being argued.  The argument (still being upheld, by the way) is that it was virtually mundane and wholly expected for every party to have a dozen extra swordhands with them nearly at all times.
If you read the above post, you owe me $20 for tutoring fees

\'Let them call me rebel, and welcome, I have no concern for it, but I should suffer the misery of devils, were I to make a whore of my soul.\'
- Thomas Paine
\'Everything doesn\'t need

Doom

Quote from: Benoist;439359I don't know about "normally." What's "normally?" How people played? People played the game in vastly different ways, some of which were using henchmen and hirelings at low levels, others not.

Wait a second, you're picking out the word 'normally'? You're not serious with picking out that word, right? :)

You actually had me going that you were serious here. Kudos!
(taken during hurricane winds)

A nice education blog.

Aos

I've completely lost track of what this thread is about. I have decided that it is now about the logistics of elephant sex.
You are posting in a troll thread.

Metal Earth

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jibbajibba

Quote from: Aos;439369I've completely lost track of what this thread is about. I have decided that it is now about the logistics of elephant sex.

Having witnessed that on the Serengeti I can say the Elephant has nothing to be ashamed of in the shower.....

(PS there is a continuing thread about the hirelings in AD&D, optional extra or core feature? :) )
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Aos

I'm trying to work out what role hirelings might play in elephant sex; I'm intrigued by the possibilities.
You are posting in a troll thread.

Metal Earth

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Benoist

#656
Quote from: StormBringer;439364Benoist, you know full well that isn't what was being argued.  The argument (still being upheld, by the way) is that it was virtually mundane and wholly expected for every party to have a dozen extra swordhands with them nearly at all times.
NO. That is a strawman. That is not at all what is discussed. At first there was discussion about how people played the game and whatnot. The truth of the matter is that AD&D was played in vastly different ways by vastly different people. The way people actually choose to play the game has never been in question, because in the end, they do what the fuck they want. And this had been agreed to by all parties including Doom for pages and pages.

Now if you want to rewind and recover that ground all over the fuck again, be my guest, but it is completely pointless, and irrelevant to my point, which I've been repeating over and over again. You can do what you want at your game table, and I'm not the AD&D police. Do what you want.

What I've been debating from the very start, and my position has not changed one iota on this, I've not shifted any goalposts whatsoever, is that the use of hirelings and henchmen is part of the default assumptions of the AD&D game, that they are an integral part of the corpus of rules meant to be used, not some appendix or option like Psionics are.

Now, by the book, can you have ten spearmen travelling with you at low levels? YES. That's my point.

jibbajibba

Quote from: Aos;439374I'm trying to work out what role hirelings might play in elephant sex; I'm intrigued by the possibilities.

well some one has to hold the wheelbarrow
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Drohem

Quote from: StormBringer;439364Benoist, you know full well that isn't what was being argued.  The argument (still being upheld, by the way) is that it was virtually mundane and wholly expected for every party to have a dozen extra swordhands with them nearly at all times.

Wow, nice job there Stormy.

Seriously, the argument is that 'every party' had a 'dozen' extra hirelings with them 'nearly at all times'?  

Well, I guess it isn't much of an argument then since it's patently untrue, which has clearly been demonstrated by the AD&D rules and personal experiences already posted in this thread.  Clearly, not 'every party' that every played AD&D had a 'dozen extra swordhands with them nearly at all times.'  Of course, you know this to be true so it begs the question:  Why is it that you, of all people, are perpetuating Doom's stupidity on the this issue?

Benoist

Quote from: Doom;439366Wait a second, you're picking out the word 'normally'? You're not serious with picking out that word, right? :)
So you're coming back on your agreement that people were playing the game in different ways, that it was never an argument about various game experiences of various people on this board, but that it is an argument about the by-the-book baseline of the game?

Are you arguing about the baseline of the AD&D game, or what people were actually doing with the game twenty years ago?

Choose one option.